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Where would you rank Jonathan Taylor?


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1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

It's speculation and it's still a stretch. In your previous post you mentioned OSU's timing Ward ran a 4.23 at Ohio State and a 4.32 at the combine. Generally over the years it seems many of them are about .1 (a tenth) faster than what they actually run at the combine. Not everyone gets faster in college. Some gain weight and remain the same or even slower. Dobbins put some some weight on since that 40 time. It surely doesn't make sense that Dobbins is somehow faster than Taylor now given the evidence to say otherwise in 3 different speed metrics.

Dobbins since the Nike combine put on 8 lbs, Taylor put on 18 lbs; I think your point about gaining weight more so effects some of those other OSU players like Jerome Baker, for example. I mentioned the OSU numbers because you were using Dobbins HS time of 4.44 for the forty when their was a faster time present from OSU. Ward added 0.09 in his combine time. McLaurin dropped 0.01 in his combine time. Campbell added 0.05 from his OSU time. My point was that claiming the 4.44 as his speed doesn’t make sense because that was 4 years ago.

We don’t know JKD’s timed speed. In relation to his OSU 4.32 he could add .09 like Ward, add 0.05 like Campbell, or drop 0.01 (doubtful) like McLaurin. Taylor and Dobbins both have low 4.4/high 4.3 speed. Taylor’s speed is simply confirmed, while Dobbins has not. As I mentioned in the previous post, I lowered Taylor based on that run where he got caught from behind.

But hey, I’m really not dying on the long speed hill here. I’ll concede Taylor having superior straight line/track speed. I had given him the deep speed advantage until I saw him get caught from behind so easily yesterday. But after further analysis, like I said above, the guy who caught him seems to be a world class athlete (amongst world class athletes already in the NFL).

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

Irrelevant to who is faster though

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

Also Dobbins ran that 4.45 time before breaking his fibula not after. He states the fastest he ever ran was 4.44. He broke his fibula in September of 2016

Good find. I saw they did combine events in February. Also while the scorecard posts 4.45, the ESPN website and seemingly every other site list 4.44 as the speed he ran at the event and not 4.45, there is obviously an error somewhere in the process, thus I sided on the side of what these websites report because they also reported Taylor’s 4.42 time and since there wasn’t a scorecard for him, I think 4.44 to 4.42 is the most accurate numbers that could be used for comparisons sake. But if you’re being a stickler about that, “technically” Dobbins broke his fibula August 2016 to be exact. But I’ll concede this long speed debate. Because it’s not a hill, I’m willing to die on.

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

As I was readying to send this post, I saw this inclusion.

Again, I mentioned I was comparing the speed on both of their long runs where Taylor was caught and where Dobbins was not caught from behind. Judging from those two runs, Dobbins edged out Taylor. I think considering Dobbins was maxed out, Taylor has more elite hamstrings. Yet a 21 mph run by Dobbins backs up my point that he’s got potential 4.3 speed. He ran a “4.32” at his college and a 21 mph run can easily translate into a 4.3 time with elite burst. Considering Dobbins explosive numbers at OSU that track well and considering Parris Campbell also posted a 21 mph run when at OSU, I think it’s not outside the realm of probability. I think Dobbins field speed looks similar enough to MJD (4.39s), he’s easily faster than former Ravens RB Ray Rice (4.46s), yet both have similar initial burst. Rice tested at a 1.49s 10 yard split at the combine and it wouldn’t shock me if Dobbins numbers in the 10 yd split tracked similarly.

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I post this simply because of Dobbins explosion numbers seem to track well for guys who tend to have strong 10 yard splits. Vertical leap and broad jump explosiveness, tend to lend to a strong start. But again, you can have the long speed argument because I think those next gen stats show that Taylor does in fact have superior straight line speed. Just not on the run where he was being raced down. Either way, there is no way to claim that Dobbins doesn’t also have high 4.3/low 4.4 caliber speed.

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That said, I’m not conceding the fact that Dobbins is the superior runner of the football (note, I’m not considering receiving here). And while it’s close enough, I think Dobbins is comfortably enough ahead. Just as Taylor is comfortably enough ahead in receiving ability.

If you want to use advanced speed metrics to argue Taylor’s speed, than it makes no sense to conversely believe that Taylor is a superior runner when the advanced rushing stats all favor Dobbins over Taylor.

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2 hours ago, rich homie said:

Taylor just finished the season with the third most rushing yards in the NFL, behind only Dalvin Cook and Derrick Henry. He has more yards, more touchdowns, more receptions, more y/r better catch rate, less fumbles, etc than Dobbins, all of this on a lower average yards before contact. My apologies to the Ravens delegation but as of right now they're not in the same tier of RB.

He also finished with 98 more carries than Dobbins. In terms of lower average yards before contact, that has as much to do with run vision as run blocking upfront. Considering Dobbins has superior yards before contact and superior yardage after contact, that’s a testament to his superior run vision as well as contact balance.

If the team was feeding Mark Ingram carries for the first 9 games (when our rushing game + offense was trash) and giving Dobbins those same carries... as Taylor was given to start the season, Dobbins likely outpaces Taylor in yards and TDs considering his efficiency and advanced stats.

Claiming that Dobbins isn’t on at least the same “tier of RB” as Taylor is nonsensical. Again, and I absolutely love Taylor... ask Ravens fans how much I loved Taylor as a prospect. I’ll have to go back and check, but I may have even had him rated above Nick Chubb as a RB prospect. If not, it was close.

But Dobbins and Taylor are both guys with top 5 RB potential in the NFL, yet I don’t believe either is yet there. Acting as though Taylor is on a whole other level is unfounded... unless one only considers bulk achievement. One guy isn’t competing for touches because Marlon Mack went down with injury, while the other is competing for touches amongst the most historically gifted rushing attack in NFL history.

But whatever. Taylor is on another level. I expect him to far outpace Dobbins in the playoffs and far outpace him next season as well, considering this info. If he does, I’ll admit a player I already love is on another level than I anticipated.

Tennessee and Buffalo are both ranked the 16th and 17th best run defenses in the NFL, respectively (though it’s a difference of 1.4% DVOA, which is a quality difference). So with that knowledge in hand, Taylor should be on a whole other level in the wildcard round. We’ll see.

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He was one of the mest deocrated college RB's of all time and didn't even stay all 4 years. I wanted him in KC pretty bad, I think he'll be good for a long team if you manage his workload right.

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Maybe it's just me, but to be honest, I have a very hard time ranking RBs these days outside of maybe the top-3 or so. 

It fluctuates so much that it's hard to keep track of.

I wanna credit players for longevity but between their relatively low shelf life, legs taking a beating, and the game shifting more towards a RBBC approach, it's hard to do that fairly anymore. 

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1 hour ago, ASmithFan1010 said:

  

How has no one commented on how absurd this opinion is?

I mean, 19th in rushing yards. 5th in YPC. 10th in DYAR. 7th in DVOA. 85.7 PFF grade.

Ravens rushing attack has also averaged 204 rushing yards/game since 2018 when Gus (and Lamar) were added to the backfield.

Please present to me all these RBs with stronger claims as a top 20 back that make this take somehow “absurd”. And these are just the stats.

I’m not even considering the eye test where you’ve got a guy who is a 6’1” 240 lbs RB with 4.5 speed. Great RB vision to spot the cutback lanes or small creases to exploit. He’s increased his quickness and receiving ability this season as well, which is a big part of WHY I rank him where I do.

He’s proven at this point he’s not simply a recipient of the Lamar effect considering he’s achieving this production against 9 and sometimes 10 man boxes.

If a top 20 claim for such a back is considered absurd by the masses than if anything, Gus is actually underrated.

Edited by diamondbull424
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