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2021 Offseason thread


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3 minutes ago, Scalamania said:

I agree - I think this fanbase overrates him big time. He's just an average player and unfortunately for him has had a much worse career then the two players taken after him (in typical Eagles fashion). 

I love what he did for us in the SB and I have the strip sack autographed hanging in my basement but his career as a whole has been underwhelming. 

This sums it up pretty well.

As a player he is very overrated by the fan base (Miles Sanders is going the same way really fast). His leadership qualities and demeanor have make him stayed on the team for far longer than a player of his caliber usually is. If he was a QB we´d be in QB purgatory.

He has always been a good enough DE to not have a glaring hole at his spot but not good enough to anchor a DL and that´s why we are constantly looking for edge rushers. For someone who has been playing with Fletcher Cox for so long, should be doing much better. 

17 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

He's still a good to very good defensive end depending on what season or game we are talking about. He's just never been elite or close as a pass rusher, but as a run defender he has.

As long as it´s not a read option. He sucks terribly defending those or any misdirection for the matter. 

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1 hour ago, Broadway Joe said:

This sums it up pretty well.

As a player he is very overrated by the fan base (Miles Sanders is going the same way really fast). His leadership qualities and demeanor have make him stayed on the team for far longer than a player of his caliber usually is. If he was a QB we´d be in QB purgatory.

He has always been a good enough DE to not have a glaring hole at his spot but not good enough to anchor a DL and that´s why we are constantly looking for edge rushers. For someone who has been playing with Fletcher Cox for so long, should be doing much better. 

As long as it´s not a read option. He sucks terribly defending those or any misdirection for the matter. 

For one thing all of our DEs crash down hard and are overly aggressive like that and get caught against read option. To me that’s more a coaching issue with the last regime than anything.

Also, besides that... Graham was 32 years old last year to Sweat and Barnett’s 23 and 24 respectively. I think I’ll cut him a little break. BG’s movement skills and reaction speed nowadays aren’t gonna be what they would’ve been when he was their age. He didn’t grow up in HS, college and then the NFL with the read option being a major thing like they did. I don’t expect him to be great at defending it. His short arms also probably hurt him there lol. You have to make the decision between two options like that it might help to have longer arms to track the QB down if he takes off.

No one is calling Graham some elite DE, but y’all are vastly underselling him. 

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42 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

No. Barnett is an average player.

Just say y’all don’t watch Eagles games.

Why is your response when you disagree with someone always something like "sit down", "do better", "just say you don't watch the games"? That's some **** you'd see on an Eagles FB group or on the cesspool that is Twitter. 

and I think Barnett is a below average/not good player. 

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57 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

No one is calling Graham some elite DE, but y’all are vastly underselling him. 

Nobody here think he's a bad player either. He's just an average defensive lineman. He has the benefit of the doubt because he doesn't suck like most of our first round picks over the last 12 years. 

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1 hour ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

No. Barnett is an average player.

Just say y’all don’t watch Eagles games.

This. 

Y'all are underselling BG like you think most are overselling. Doesn't really matter what the players after him have done. He had the biggest moment in our franchise . To me personally that trumps any argument and anything else you can even say(whom ever)

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15 minutes ago, EaglesFlySBChampsHigh said:

He had the biggest moment in our franchise . To me personally that trumps any argument and anything else you can even say(whom ever)

I don't think anyone is going to argue against his moment in the Super Bowl but that doesn't trump the conversation we're having. 

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1 hour ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

For one thing all of our DEs crash down hard and are overly aggressive like that and get caught against read option. To me that’s more a coaching issue with the last regime than anything.

Also, besides that... Graham was 32 years old last year to Sweat and Barnett’s 23 and 24 respectively. I think I’ll cut him a little break. BG’s movement skills and reaction speed nowadays aren’t gonna be what they would’ve been when he was their age. He didn’t grow up in HS, college and then the NFL with the read option being a major thing like they did. I don’t expect him to be great at defending it. His short arms also probably hurt him there lol. You have to make the decision between two options like that it might help to have longer arms to track the QB down if he takes off.

No one is calling Graham some elite DE, but y’all are vastly underselling him. 

Hey I don´t disagree with any of the reasons you just said, but the end result is just the same and it´s a weakness to his game for any or all reasons you just mentioned and yes he is old but limited as he is right now old Graham is much better than young Graham as a player which says a lot about his resume. 

17 minutes ago, EaglesFlySBChampsHigh said:

This. 

Y'all are underselling BG like you think most are overselling. Doesn't really matter what the players after him have done. He had the biggest moment in our franchise . To me personally that trumps any argument and anything else you can even say(whom ever)

No one is saying that moment didn´t happen or taking it away from him. We even celebrate it and that´s some of the reasons we like the guy, that doesn´t change who he is as a player, specially at this point of his career. That argument doesn´t trump anything about the guys taking right after him because they too were part of all time moments for their respective franchises. 

Maybe referring to him as average is harsh, perhaps solid player is more appropriate and a good player tops, definitely not great.

Again, we are talking about Brandon Graham the player, not the leader, the teammate.

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2 hours ago, Scalamania said:

Why is your response when you disagree with someone always something like "sit down", "do better", "just say you don't watch the games"? That's some **** you'd see on an Eagles FB group or on the cesspool that is Twitter. 

and I think Barnett is a below average/not good player. 

Fair. I could have left that out, but I don't like BG slander and to me just writing him off as average which is he not is disrespectful to one of the better players to suit up in midnight green since I became a fan.

Edited by TheRealMcCoy
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1 hour ago, Broadway Joe said:

right now old Graham is much better than young Graham as a player which says a lot about his resume

To be fair he was doing okay as a rookie and I'm not gonna judge a rookie edge rusher too hard on their 1st season or really any position. And, then near the end of that rookie year he unfortunately tore his ACL and missed basically all of his 2nd season, so I don't think his 3rd year was gonna be the best being away from the game/field for over a year. He then had to switch to the 3-4 with dumb Billy Davis in 2013. He started to turn it on when vets like Trent Cole, Jason Babin and so on were out the way.

I won't claim that the first half of his career went as expected. It didn't. He had to deal with the injury and coming back from that and then Kelly/Davis *** and vets to work past and being heralded as a bust early on by impatient Eagles fans. He had some growing pains for sure whether they be his own doing, coaching (scheme/HC/DC/D-line changes), injuries, etc.

But, the 2nd half of his career has been pretty damn good.

A lot of what BG does isn't reflected in the box score (his own), but it is in the teams and when you go back and watch the games and see how he's affecting things with pressures, setting the edge, and such.

I've always maintained PFF overrates him a bit, but the pressures and TFLs can't be denied.

I just think calling what he is or has done as average from like starting back in the Chip Kelly era to last season is just disrespectful and inaccurate.

Like I said before I wonder how he would have done if they packed on some more weight to like 285-290 and stuck him in as a 3T maybe that would kick out to play base end on obvious run downs. I think he might've got more sack numbers from the interior, but that's just an educated guess.

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I think the "success" that Brandon Graham has had in the later stages of his career is more of a credit to the monster that Fletcher Cox was from 2014/2015 to 2019. 

Looking at the PFF list posted above I don't think any of those other edge guys have played with a legit top 3, arguably top 2 defensive tackle next to them. 

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37 minutes ago, Scalamania said:

I think the "success" that Brandon Graham has had in the later stages of his career is more of a credit to the monster that Fletcher Cox was from 2014/2015 to 2019. 

Looking at the PFF list posted above I don't think any of those other edge guys have played with a legit top 3, arguably top 2 defensive tackle next to them. 

2018 and 2019 were down years fog BG, while last year was a down year for Fletch, Graham still had a really good year last season.

 

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2 hours ago, Danger said:

Is Brandon Graham Elite? No. He's solid/above average/stable/reliable.

This is exactly his description. Most of his defenders are unable to separate the player with the persona. It’s not slander by any means.

He didn’t have a great year last year, he had a great half. Which is something that he tends to do. He gets pressures but that highlights his inability to sack the QB. 

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