Biggs: Pace on shaky ground

[beardown3231]

4 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Windy, if they are bringing him in as a president of football ops, I can get behind it.  But if they are replacing Pace with him, what you are doing is empowering Nagy to backtrack on all the progress that he made this year.  Mark my words, if this happens, Nagy will revert to playcalling, David Montgomery will become an afterthought in the offense again, and in a year the Bears will be firing Nagy, and bringing in Mike Kafka as HC and the cycle will start over again.  The Bears should keep Nagy this year, they should maintain stability, but that absolutely should not be further empowering him.  He needs a check.  Bringing in a guy who wants to win the same way Nagy does is 100% the wrong move.  I firmly believe Nagy and Pace should be tied together.  You shouldn't get rid of one w/o the other, but if you are going to fire Pace, you should bring somebody in who is going to be strong enough and willing to tell Nagy no.

Nagy has had a big hand in playcalling even with the "change" to Lazor, so who cares? If they don't think Pace is the guy, fire him. Last thing I want is them sticking with Pace with next year being a must-win year and watching him go all in & trading all of their draft picks for Carson Wentz & to move up for bad WR's

BTW, I think Pace comes back. Only way he won't is if they get crushed by NO

Edited January 4, 2021 by beardown3231

[topwop1]

11 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

There is really nothing Nagy can do against a HOF QB. Most teams can't do anything when a QB plays as well as Rogers has been. We need a better QB to compete - we're fighting with sticks when they have a gun.

I agree that Rodgers is one of the greatest and it's hard to stop him but are we going to use that excuse for every Bears coach until we get ourselves a HOF QB or until Rodgers retires?

The Vikings were able to beat GB earlier this season with Kirk freaking Cousins.

He needs to start game planning better against this team because obviously the talent at certain positions does not match up.

Good coaches are able to do this.  Harbaugh and Fangio used to give Rodgers and GB fits when they were with the 49ers.

[topwop1]

51 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

You are assuming that Borgonzi is being brought in as a Nagy puppet.

It took Pace 24 games [2019 and the Foles debacle] to actually hold Nagy accountable at all. There is little evidence Pace has any power over Nagy until this season and it lasted a very short time.

Well if we are to believe this rumor then why would they specifically target Borgonzi and not open it up to a full on GM search?  It's not hard to piece together that it's because Nagy knows him well.

Perhaps Nagy already had private talks with ownership to convince them in giving him another chance to right the ship albeit with a GM of his choosing.

 

[GOGRIESE]

2 hours ago, topwop1 said:

I agree that Rodgers is one of the greatest and it's hard to stop him but are we going to use that excuse for every Bears coach until we get ourselves a HOF QB or until Rodgers retires?

The Vikings were able to beat GB earlier this season with Kirk freaking Cousins.

He needs to start game planning better against this team because obviously the talent at certain positions does not match up.

Good coaches are able to do this.  Harbaugh and Fangio used to give Rodgers and GB fits when they were with the 49ers.

Kirk Cousins is a better QB than Mitch. What Nagy can do with Mitch is exactly what he did in the game yesterday. Mitch needs the field split and his decisions cut in half. How the hell is he supposed to work with that better than he has been? He's been a miracle worker so far to even get us in position to be in the playoffs. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by GOGRIESE

[G08]

I don't think Pace is going anywhere. Neither is Nagy, "2 playoff appearances in 3 seasons" will hold merit. 25-13 record for Nagy with Pace's hand picked QB.

Etc etc etc. Narratives will spin.

[GOGRIESE]

I think Mitch is gone in any scenario. Either Pace stays and gets someone else. Or he goes and a new GM picks a QB for Nagy to work with. Ideally scenario 2 happens. 

[Sugashane]

27 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said:

Kirk Cousins is a better QB than Mitch. What Nagy can do with Mitch is exactly what he did in the game yesterday. Mitch needs the field split and his decisions cut in half. How the hell is he supposed to work with that better than he has been? He's been a miracle worker so far to even get us in position to be in the playoffs. 

Cousins is definitely better than Tru, but the Vikings also gameplanned better that game than Chicago does too. Takes a big run game for 34 carries and over 170 yards but that keeps Rodgers and Co from getting in a groove. Last thing you want from GB is for Rodgers to get back on the field quick. Try to get in a shootout with them and only 3-4 teams can reasonably expect to come out on top.

[Madmike90]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

I don't think Pace is going anywhere. Neither is Nagy, "2 playoff appearances in 3 seasons" will hold merit. 25-13 record for Nagy with Pace's hand picked QB.

Etc etc etc. Narratives will spin.

For me a lot of this isn't spin rather fact...how many teams with such bad QB play go three years without having a losing record in today's NFL? Very very few...some focus so much on the big thing Pace clearly got wrong in the QB they forget what he walked into and just how good this team could be if we get even consistently good QB play let alone great QB play...I don't think this team is that far away from being very good for a long time if we can keep the core together and add that consistent QB play...no that is a big if no doubt...but I would still be willing to give Pace the chance to find it...

If we do go after Borgonzi then I don't think it would be a terrible move even tho I would rather stick with Pace because we wouldn't be completely blowing up the concepts of what we are trying to draft for.

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, GOGRIESE said:

Kirk Cousins is a better QB than Mitch. What Nagy can do with Mitch is exactly what he did in the game yesterday. Mitch needs the field split and his decisions cut in half. How the hell is he supposed to work with that better than he has been? He's been a miracle worker so far to even get us in position to be in the playoffs. 

Not really. He's been lucky more than anything. If not for the league adding an extra wild card slot this year would have been another mediocre 8-8 season.

Also Bears only have 1 win against a team with a winning record this season. I repeat 1 win...and that was by 1 point against Tampa Bay when Brady somehow forgot what down it was late in the game.

I'm not saying Mitch isn't limited but that game plan sucked yesterday. I mean our best offensive player Allen Robinson only caught two of five targets the entire game?

It was a stark difference from the way this team played in previous weeks. 

[G08]

9 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

For me a lot of this isn't spin rather fact

I don't disagree, I just meant it as those messages will be conveyed in myriad ways. 

[Madmike90]

10 minutes ago, G08 said:

I don't disagree, I just meant it as those messages will be conveyed in myriad ways. 

No doubt man.

[Heinz D.]

9 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

If it's TRUE, it would be the dumbest thing ever.  That would be going all in on the Matt Nagy vanity project.  That's not what the Bears need to be doing.  

If getting rid of Pace means going forward with the scenario I described the other day--fire Phillips, fire Pace, make some big name CEO, and Nagy President, with everybody agreeing on the next GM--BRING ON THE "MATT NAGY VANITY PROJECT"! 

8 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Windy, if they are bringing him in as a president of football ops, I can get behind it.  But if they are replacing Pace with him, what you are doing is empowering Nagy to backtrack on all the progress that he made this year.  Mark my words, if this happens, Nagy will revert to playcalling, David Montgomery will become an afterthought in the offense again, and in a year the Bears will be firing Nagy, and bringing in Mike Kafka as HC and the cycle will start over again.  The Bears should keep Nagy this year, they should maintain stability, but that absolutely should not be further empowering him.  He needs a check.  Bringing in a guy who wants to win the same way Nagy does is 100% the wrong move.  I firmly believe Nagy and Pace should be tied together.  You shouldn't get rid of one w/o the other, but if you are going to fire Pace, you should bring somebody in who is going to be strong enough and willing to tell Nagy no.

You honestly think Pace was the one stabilizing the offensive playcalling, and getting Montgomery more involved? 

I can see why you would say Nagy and Pace should be linked. If that's the case, fire them both. 

7 hours ago, GBHalas said:

Biggs also says that they might kick Pace up to Phillips spot and Phillips retires.  This makes more sense to me then replacing Pace.  

That would be replacing Pace, on a practical level. Unless they're going to give Pace absolute power. 

6 hours ago, GBHalas said:

I think he's been successful in changing the culture of the organization he just needs better draft decisions on day one

He needs all sorts of better decisions. The Jackson contract is looking to be one of the worst in Bears history. 

5 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

I get it, you dont like Pace bc he hasnt been able to find the answer at QB.  But dont act like hes been a total failure bc he brought in a bad vet as a bridge, and took a stab at the consensus highest rated QB in the draft.  A QB mind you who has won a lot of games, has gotten his team to the playoffs 2 of 3 years despite not becoming the superstar that he hoped.  In terms of Mitch, I'll let Rex Ryan speak for me.

"All these people saying they knew that Mahomes and Watson were going to be better than Trubisky, they are full of it.  The guy was a #2 overall pick for an reason and everyone I know in the league had him #1 too.  They should just be thankful they dodnt have the #2 pick bc they would have chose him too."

Ryan was simply repeating what was the consensus of scouts (etc.) at the time. We've been over that repeatedly. Let's not sail off into goofy waters. @WindyCity dislikes Pace for any number of reasons besides missing on Trubisky. As do I. Last year's draft was putrid. 

4 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Nagy has had a big hand in playcalling even with the "change" to Lazor, so who cares? If they don't think Pace is the guy, fire him. Last thing I want is them sticking with Pace with next year being a must-win year and watching him go all in & trading all of their draft picks for Carson Wentz & to move up for bad WR's

BTW, I think Pace comes back. Only way he won't is if they get crushed by NO

They will get crushed by NO. You can bet the farm on that. I also see little evidence that Nagy has had a "big hand" in playcalling, even with Lazor holding the computer tablet. If he has, he's done a total re-think on how he calls plays...

Edited January 5, 2021 by Heinz D.

[topwop1]

6 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

 Last year's draft was putrid. 

We can criticize Pace for a lot of things but I disagree with this.

I think it's tuned out to be a very good class.

Jaylon Johnson and Darnell Mooney were both great value picks where they were taken.

I get people were upset about the Kmet pick but he looks like he will at least be a serviceable NFL player if not a star. He just has to work on holding onto the ball better and limiting turnovers.

Also that Vildor kid looks like he can play in the slot and take over for Skrine as early as next season.

As for the others jury is still out but so far it's a promising class.

[Heinz D.]

5 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

As for the others jury is still out but so far it's a promising class.

This is WHY it was a putrid draft. 

Pace traded all sorts of stuff to acquire both Trubisky and Mack. This last draft should NOT have been about building for the future. It should have been about helping to secure a Super Bowl run RIGHT NOW. An offensive lineman. Or two! Another dynamic offensive playmaker! 

Nope. The draft was putrid. And there's no way to sugarcoat putrid. 

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

This is WHY it was a putrid draft. 

Pace traded all sorts of stuff to acquire both Trubisky and Mack. This last draft should NOT have been about building for the future. It should have been about helping to secure a Super Bowl run RIGHT NOW. An offensive lineman. Or two! Another dynamic offensive playmaker! 

Nope. The draft was putrid. And there's no way to sugarcoat putrid. 

It just wasn't tho...of anything top to bottom it was one of the best in the NFL.