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Biggs: Pace on shaky ground


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6 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Not really. He's been lucky more than anything. If not for the league adding an extra wild card slot this year would have been another mediocre 8-8 season.

Also Bears only have 1 win against a team with a winning record this season. I repeat 1 win...and that was by 1 point against Tampa Bay when Brady somehow forgot what down it was late in the game.

I'm not saying Mitch isn't limited but that game plan sucked yesterday. I mean our best offensive player Allen Robinson only caught two of five targets the entire game?

It was a stark difference from the way this team played in previous weeks. 

Disagree, the offensive gameplan was really good.  The Bears made 5 trips into the red zone and turned the ball over on downs almost in the red zone.  They had the advantage in top.  They did a lot of things right.  The problems were when they got in the red zone and not scoring TDs.  And even with those problems it was 21-16 in the 4th qtr.  Questions people should be asking is why is Jimmy Graham ever not on the field in the red zone.  Why do we stop running the football inside the 10.  Why is zone read or naked boot not called on every redzone trip.  But he gameplan was fine

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1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Show me any site, or publication, that had that draft graded higher than a "C". 

So you judge drafts based on how pundits grade them?  That's weird for many reasons. 

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Give me any compelling evidence that draft helped push the Bears into contention this year. 

4 out of the 7 picks played a significant role this year.  3 of them were starters out the gate, and Vildor saved our ***** when Skrine went down with an injury. 

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2 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

This is WHY it was a putrid draft. 

Pace traded all sorts of stuff to acquire both Trubisky and Mack. This last draft should NOT have been about building for the future. It should have been about helping to secure a Super Bowl run RIGHT NOW. An offensive lineman. Or two! Another dynamic offensive playmaker! 

Nope. The draft was putrid. And there's no way to sugarcoat putrid. 

This has to be one of the most hilariously bad takes in a long time.  EVERY draft is about the future.  That's what the draft is, it's about building the foundation for the future of a franchise.  Any GM who goes into a draft looking for a player to contend now is seeking fools gold.  And calling this draft where it looks like he came away w/ 3 surefire starters, a potential 4th and a udfa who may solidify the center of the OL while giving you a damn good gcg combination, well that's pretty damn good.  And let's get real Pace may have missed on nearly every first rounder, hes found bonafide studs in rounds 2,3,4, and 5.  I'd argue his only miss in those rounds is Shaheen.  That's a good track record.  And let's get real about the Trubisky pick.  He was the consensus top rated QB.  Hating on that pick really would be like hating on the JAGs for taking Trevor Lawrence if Justin Fields and Zach Wilson develop into better players.  I say this as a guy who stumped for Watson at #3 pretty much the entire draft season.  Truth be told when I started to break things down I found a lot to like about all 3.  I even made comments about seeing a scenario where all 3 turned out to be really good players.  I realize looking back now I really only liked Watson the best bc he was who I was most familiar with.  Now sure you can say hes the GM he should be able to see it.   To which my response is how?  What in Trubiskys tape, his interviews, anything showed that he would be the 3rd best of that class.  There were guys on this board who shall remain nameless who said that there were no first round QBs.  I remember some clamoring for Nathan Peterman or Davis Webb.  He took his shot, he missed.  I said at the time he tied his fate to the QB and I respect it.  But here's an honest question, what has this coaching staff showed you that says they are capable of developing players or maximizing their potential?  Is it not giving David Montgomery the football for a season and a half?  Is it watching Anthony Miller go from a guy with polished skills and a great work ethic to someone who likes likenhendoesnt care most of the time?  Is it watching Mack decline over the past 2 years?  Is it seeing Leonard Floyd go to LA and get his first 10 sack season?  Or Adrian Amos be the leader of a good secondary up in GB.  Tell me what has this coaching staff done other than underachieve with the talent they have.  For crying out loud how many times did teams find the guy Robert Fn Quinn was covering?  "I told Ryan I had all the talent I need".  If you want to get rid of Pace fine, Nagy should go with him.  But you dont keep Nagy and use Pace as a scapegoat. Pace has built a talented team.  Nagy is the one who refused to adapt until the last possible minute. 

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I dont hate Pace but I just think Trubisky might have been one of the stupidest picks I have ever seen.

To be honest everything outside of Trubisky has been above average. Like have you SEEN other teams drafts?? haha GB is terrible at drafting, Lions too, Vikings are the best. I would say Bears are 2nd in the division (draft only!!)

The fact is, you just cant pass on Deshaun Watson and Mahomes while also TRADING UP, for a QB who had 13 starts total and couldnt even win the starting job in college. He had no accolades at all and if you look at interviews his coaches basically were just like "yeah he is a nice guy or whatever but the players LOVED Marquise". He wasnt even described as a leader!!! They just ignored all that and picked him over a Heisman finalist and national champion for no reason. Just the absolute dumbest pick Ive ever seen.

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1 hour ago, MonserinNC said:

I dont hate Pace but I just think Trubisky might have been one of the stupidest picks I have ever seen.

<snip>

The fact is, you just cant pass on Deshaun Watson and Mahomes while also TRADING UP, for a QB who had 13 starts total and couldnt even win the starting job in college. He had no accolades at all and if you look at interviews his coaches basically were just like "yeah he is a nice guy or whatever but the players LOVED Marquise". He wasnt even described as a leader!!! They just ignored all that and picked him over a Heisman finalist and national champion for no reason. Just the absolute dumbest pick Ive ever seen.

Total co-sign. I know it's ancient history but the fact remains that Pace chose a dud who was not NFL-ready. This over a guy who shredded  Alabama twice on the biggest stage in college football. And when everything was on the line, he told his teammates, "Lets go be legendary." He then marched them down the field to the national championship.

Even if you pick that guy and he doesn't work out, you would have had the air cover to say, "Well -- we felt that he had something that couldn't' be coached -- he was a winner." (Not to mention his football IQ, work ethic, leadership, and high-character. AND he got his degree in only three years.)

I don't fault Pace for missing on Mahomes. Nobody (except Brett Veach) saw that coming. Plus, Mahomes had the luxury of sitting, watching, absorbing, and learning from one of the "consummate professional"  quarterbacks of our time, Alex Smith. Not to mention the tutelage of Andy Reid. Mahomes went into a perfect situation and one that the Bears couldn't have duplicated.

Trubisky over Watson however, was one of the stupidest draft decisions of all time. I said so then, and I say it now. And IMO, it's a fireable offense.

Edited by IotaNet
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3 minutes ago, IotaNet said:

Total co-sign. I know it's ancient history but the fact remains that Pace chose a dud who was not NFL-ready. This over a guy who shredded  Alabama twice on the biggest stage in college football. And when everything was on the line, he told his teammates, "Lets go be legendary." He then marched his team down the field to the national championship. Even if you pick that guy and he doesn't work out, you would have had the air cover to say, "Well -- we felt that he had something that couldn't' be coached -- he was a winner." (Not to mention his football IQ, work ethic, leadership, and high-character. AND he got his degree in only three years.)

I don't fault Pace for missing on Mahomes. Nobody (except Brett Veach) saw that coming. Plus, Mahomes had the luxury of sitting, watching, absorbing, and learning from one of the "consummate professional"  quarterbacks of our time, Alex Smith. Not to mention the tutelage of Andy Reid. Mahomes went into a perfect situation and one that the Bears couldn't have duplicated.

Trubisky over Watson however, was one of the stupidest draft decisions of all time. I said so then, and I say it now. And IMO, it's a fireable offense.

The thing is too, you're BEST CASE SCENARIO is that he is AS good as the other 2 guys!! Best case!!

So why not just PICK one of the other 2 guys!!

By trading up for Trubisky you are saying, with all good conscious, that Trubisky will be BETTER than Watson and Mahomes .....its insane haha

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Stop making the same damn mistakes! A new regime right now would be extremely handcuffed.  It only makes sense to give Pace/Nagy one more year to turn things around and let them both live or die on the bed they created instead of practically wasting 1 or 2 years of their replacement's time trying to play clean-up duty as we have done for the last 50 years.  And if they can't make it happen next year, then fine, simply erase the board and start all over in 2022.  

2022 also coincides with the time when most of the big contracts from the Pace regime would expire anyhow (or at worse become easy to maneuver around) so the new regime can start working on the rebuild immediately and it won't take them 2 years to clean the board.  In 2022, we will have a rough estimate of ~70M in cap space to work with at the start, based on current contracts and other factors,  along with the ability to create even more space if need be. <<< This is a GREAT starting point for a new regime. 

We would owe nothing more to Mack at the end of 2021, who will be 31 years old and can be traded or released to create an additional 16M in cap space.  Hick's contract expires at the end of 2021.  Trevathan will be 33 and can be traded or released for a measly 2M hit at the end of 2021.  Quinn can finally be released at the end of 2021 without having to take a hit and would create 7M more in cap space.  Kyle Fuller's last big pay year comes at the end of 2021 and will only be 30 going into the 2022 season. Whitehair, same thing.  Goldman's last big pay year comes at the end of 2021 and he will only be 29 going into the 2022 season. Massie can be released at any time starting this year without taking a hit, and the same with Leno. 

As far as 2021, we have some solid pieces to build around in all 3 phases. With another good draft and some good offseason moves then I see no reason why we couldn't be a 10-12 win team next season.  Focus on offense built around Monty, Kmet, Mooney, Whitehair, Daniels, Mustipher, Ifedi, and HOPEFULLY Arob--- if that door is still open that is. 

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8 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Why should anyone trust Pace to provide consistent QB play?

That is a low bar that he has failed to meet for his entire tenure here.

Pace is nothing short of an abject failure at even securing average QB play.

Considering not one Bears' QB has been consistent in the last 30 years clearly the bar isn't so low...I trust pace as an evaluator to give him a 2nd chance at it. 

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17 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

.

"All these people saying they knew that Mahomes and Watson were going to be better than Trubisky, they are full of it.  The guy was a #2 overall pick for an reason and everyone I know in the league had him #1 too.  They should just be thankful they dodnt have the #2 pick bc they would have chose him too."

This is 100% true.  Even Reid and Nagy would have taken Trubisky over Mahomes at time.  

Most of league had Trubisky 1 and Watson 2 and Mahomes 3.   So did draftniks.

Heck many people thought no QB that year deserved to go in first round.   It was following year class everyone was excited about.

Watson was thought to be a college style QB on a loaded team who may struggle at next level and Mahomes was a Mike Leech system QB all of which had previously failed and Goff was in process of failing in rookie year at time.   

Knock on Trubisky was lack of playing time as one year starters almost always fail, but everyone loved his potential.   All three were viewed as high risks and projects.   

I know a lot of people in forums had Mahomes and Watson ahead of Trubisky, but that was not consensus amongst professionals and pundits (most of whom get their opinions from professionals and pass it off as their own).

Mahomes was thought to be a bust in camp of his rookie year by KC media.   Many disliked the pick because KC was already a contender.   Like GB picking a QB this past year.

 

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9 hours ago, MonserinNC said:

I dont hate Pace but I just think Trubisky might have been one of the stupidest picks I have ever seen.

To be honest everything outside of Trubisky has been above average. Like have you SEEN other teams drafts?? haha GB is terrible at drafting, Lions too, Vikings are the best. I would say Bears are 2nd in the division (draft only!!)

The fact is, you just cant pass on Deshaun Watson and Mahomes while also TRADING UP, for a QB who had 13 starts total and couldnt even win the starting job in college. He had no accolades at all and if you look at interviews his coaches basically were just like "yeah he is a nice guy or whatever but the players LOVED Marquise". He wasnt even described as a leader!!! They just ignored all that and picked him over a Heisman finalist and national champion for no reason. Just the absolute dumbest pick Ive ever seen.

The players loved Marquise Williams so much that they went to the coaching staff lobbying for Trubusky to start his sophomore year.  The players didnt love Marquise, the coaching staff (who was gone after that year) loved Marquise.  Let's not make things up, you can criticize a player or pick w/o doing that.  There were no questions about any of Tru's intangibles, there still arent.  I love when people try to use revisionist history to justify their current opinions.  Dude was the consensus best QB in the draft for a reason.  It didn't turn out that way, but it's not because Pace made some outlandish move.  

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8 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

2022 also coincides with the time when most of the big contracts from the Pace regime would expire anyhow (or at worse become easy to maneuver around) so the new regime can start working on the rebuild immediately and it won't take them 2 years to clean the board.  In 2022, we will have a rough estimate of ~70M in cap space to work with at the start, based on current contracts and other factors,  along with the ability to create even more space if need be. <<< This is a GREAT starting point for a new regime. 

And what happens when, with 1 year left to keep his job, Ryan Pace gives out another Robert Quinn type contract? If you give him another offseason, he's not going to sit on his hands and keep the books clean for 2022.

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18 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

And what happens when, with 1 year left to keep his job, Ryan Pace gives out another Robert Quinn type contract? If you give him another offseason, he's not going to sit on his hands and keep the books clean for 2022.

That's my point. If Pace is going to stay, extend him. If he knows he's on "shaky ground" and next year could be his last, he's going to destroy the already-f***ed-up cap situation and use up a ton of draft capital.

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23 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

And what happens when, with 1 year left to keep his job, Ryan Pace gives out another Robert Quinn type contract? If you give him another offseason, he's not going to sit on his hands and keep the books clean for 2022.

Ownership always has veto power.  This is why I want to bring in a president of football ops who is going to tell Pace (or Pace as president telling the new GM) her is the budget.  This is what you can spend in FA.  This is what we want for draft capital at the end of the year.  No you cant mortgage the future to go get Trey Lance or Zach Wilson.  We need to be ready to clean sweep this thing next year if we need to.  I'm not saying to handcuff your GM, I'm saying you give him the parameters in which he can operate and then give him free reign to do so.

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1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Most of league had Trubisky 1 and Watson 2 and Mahomes 3.   So did draftniks.

Heck many people thought no QB that year deserved to go in first round.   It was following year class everyone was excited about.

 

I remember that well. I argued several times on here that I liked the 2017 class way more than the 2018 class. I never really liked Darnold, Mayfield or the rest. Clearly I was way off with several players (Allen and Jackson especially) but still liked that class better. 

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