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1 hour ago, RpMc said:

Bring back Griff and Cordarelle. 

The problem I have on both is Patterson is only a kick returner and that is not valuable vs punt returning with the current rules and for his own sake we pretty much have little offensive role for him with our current offensive players.

Griffen meanwhile was terrible with Dallas he was addition by subtraction moving on from him I think he's too old and still too expensive for us.

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Griffen not only would have been our leader in sacks, but he likely would have been our best run defender as well, and easily our best defensive linemen. And that doesn’t account for his energy and leadership which were sorely missed on the defense this year. 

I can’t for one moment see any logical reason that his departure was an addition by subtraction. 

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20 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

Griffen not only would have been our leader in sacks, but he likely would have been our best run defender as well, and easily our best defensive linemen. And that doesn’t account for his energy and leadership which were sorely missed on the defense this year. 

I can’t for one moment see any logical reason that his departure was an addition by subtraction. 

I was talking about the Cowboys defense improving without him where was his leadership there?

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Honestly I was expecting a mixed bag before the season and that is what happened:

-Offensively the team probably met to slightly exceeded expectations. Kirk is still a slight roller coaster but can ball. Cook when healthy is the best RB in football.  Theilen is still good. The TEs are fine. The OL was up and down and has a hole still on the interior.... Jefferson was a mega stud. I thought he'd be good, you can project top rookie wr season ever though.

-Defensively, objectively before the season I thought the D would be bad, so they kind of met expectations (with the last 4 games being really bad). You can't lose your top 3 CBs, stud DE, and good DT and expect to be good. Then Hunter/Pierce being out all year, injuries to the LBs...  I do think there is hope the D can run it back next year if they get Hunter/Pierce back, get progression from the Cam/Glad, address safety if Harris walks, add 1 more plus starting DL, 2 more corners (mid round and like a mid tier vet CB like Captain/Newman). This year they were kind of just doomed though.

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1 hour ago, solidvikingfan said:

I was talking about the Cowboys defense improving without him where was his leadership there?

Completely different situation. You don’t just come to a new team and a new locker room and take over as a leader. The Vikings was his team. His locker room.

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6 hours ago, solidvikingfan said:

The problem I have on both is Patterson is only a kick returner and that is not valuable vs punt returning with the current rules and for his own sake we pretty much have little offensive role for him with our current offensive players.

Griffen meanwhile was terrible with Dallas he was addition by subtraction moving on from him I think he's too old and still too expensive for us.

Cordarelle is/has been an impact cover player on specials as well. He’s not just a kick returner. He could also play in the exact same role Ameer Abdullah did this year within the offense. 

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More than anything, I think we need to bring back Eric Wilson. I think he was the most improved player on defense and he arguably had a better year than Anthony Barr has ever had. He’s also younger than Barr. I would be shocked if Barr and Rudolph are on this team next year, if they don’t restructure their contracts to have a much lower cap hit. 
 

On another note, I think that Anthony Harris having a bad year has pushed down his market price quite a bit and we can sign him to a cheaper deal now. If he agrees to a 5 year $35- 40 million deal then I think we should re-sign him. 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

Griffen not only would have been our leader in sacks, but he likely would have been our best run defender as well, and easily our best defensive linemen. And that doesn’t account for his energy and leadership which were sorely missed on the defense this year. 

I can’t for one moment see any logical reason that his departure was an addition by subtraction. 

I would love to have Griffen back, but more than anything, I think we need to bring back Eric Wilson. I think he was the most improved player on defense and he arguably had a better year than Anthony Barr has ever had. He’s also younger than Barr. I would be shocked if Barr and Rudolph are on this team next year, if they don’t restructure their contracts to have a much lower cap hit. 

On another note, I think that Anthony Harris having a bad year has pushed down his market price quite a bit and we can sign him to a cheaper deal now. If he agrees to a 5 year $35- 40 million deal then I think we should re-sign him. 

Edited by Purplepride323
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19 minutes ago, Purplepride323 said:

I would love to have Griffen back, but more than anything, I think we need to bring back Eric Wilson. I think he was the most improved player on defense and he arguably had a better year than Anthony Barr has ever had. He’s also younger than Barr. I would be shocked if Barr and Rudolph are on this team next year, if they don’t restructure their contracts to have a much lower cap hit. 

On another note, I think that Anthony Harris having a bad year has pushed down his market price quite a bit and we can sign him to a cheaper deal now. If he agrees to a 5 year $35- 40 million deal then I think we should re-sign him. 

In no way do I want to sign a 30 year old safety, coming off an extremely poor season (in a contract year), to a 5 year deal.  Wilson is also as good as gone, in my opinion, as someone will pay him starting linebacker money ($8-12M per year), and we simply can't afford that.  Even if you cut Barr in favor of Wilson, it's basically going to be a net-zero in terms of the cap.  I'd personally love to see Wilson go to an odd-front team.

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17 hours ago, Purplepride323 said:

I would love to have Griffen back, but more than anything, I think we need to bring back Eric Wilson. I think he was the most improved player on defense and he arguably had a better year than Anthony Barr has ever had. He’s also younger than Barr. I would be shocked if Barr and Rudolph are on this team next year, if they don’t restructure their contracts to have a much lower cap hit. 

On another note, I think that Anthony Harris having a bad year has pushed down his market price quite a bit and we can sign him to a cheaper deal now. If he agrees to a 5 year $35- 40 million deal then I think we should re-sign him. 

And I've made it pretty clear from my vantage point that while Wilson is a cute trick, he's not better than Barr.  He doesn't do for the defense what Barr does.  He might make more splash plays, but splash plays aren't all that goes into playing the LB spot.  He gives up a lot in the run game and as such, the entire defense then suffers.  While Kendricks is the main glue, Barr and Kendricks together make the defense a top-5 to top-10 group.  Without Barr, the defense is top half at very best.    Barr may cost more (and thus may not be the best value ever), but he's a far superior player to Wilson.  There's no question in my mind that I let Wilson walk.  

Edited by swede700
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, swede700 said:

And I've made it pretty clear from my vantage point that while Wilson is a cute trick, he's not better than Barr.  He doesn't do for the defense what Barr does.  He might make more splash plays, but splash plays aren't all that goes into playing the LB spot.  He gives up a lot in the run game and as such, the entire defense then suffers.  While Kendricks is the main glue, Barr and Kendricks together make the defense a top-5 to top-10 group.  Without Barr, the defense is top half at very best.    Barr may cost more (and thus may not be the best value ever), but he's a far superior player to Wilson.  There's no question in my mind that I let Wilson walk.  

Honestly I don’t see the hype that’s behind Anthony Barr. To me, he has been very disappointing the last few years, especially in coverage downs. Also, I don’t know why people are giving him all the credit for stopping the run. In my opinion, the DTs should get most of the credit for stopping run plays. If the DTs play well, it makes it that much easier for the LBs to make a play. Eric Wilson recorded 120 tackles and Barr has never even cracked 80 in his entire career. I would say Wilson is a pretty solid tackler and I don’t see the argument that he’s bad in run defense. He was a pretty good tackler all year. But like I said, his true purpose in this defense was in passing situations, where he was being dubbed a “walking turnover”. I would rather keep the “walking turnover” on our defense then bring back a $12 million dollar Anthony Barr coming off a season- ending injury. Just my thoughts. 

Edited by Purplepride323
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

I think we are stuck with Barr. Wilson will command too much on the open market.

I think we should keep Todd Davis around to compete with Troy Dye for the WLB spot.

Cut Barr, re-sign Wilson. Simple as that. Anthony Barr is not worth a $12 million dollar contract. Especially coming off of a season ending injury. We can draft a replacement SLB in the middle rounds like Jabril Cox or Baron Browning. We rarely even play 3 LBs anyway. Eric Kendricks and Eric Wilson are the best coverage LB duo. Don’t want to lose that.  

Edited by Purplepride323
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6 minutes ago, Purplepride323 said:

Cut Barr, re-sign Wilson. Simple as that. Anthony Barr is not worth a $12 million dollar contract. Especially coming off of a season ending injury. We can draft a replacement SLB in the middle rounds like Jabril Cox or Baron Browning. We rarely even play 3 LBs anyway. Eric Kendricks and Eric Wilson are the best coverage LB duo. Don’t want to lose that.  

I think you have to do it in reverse order. First, sign Wilson and then cut Barr. I wouldn't cut Barr hoping that Wilson would sign with the team. Only cut Barr if Wilson agrees with the team on a deal that makes it a worthwhile proposition. I do think that Barr is overpaid for what he brings the defense, but (over)paying Barr those dollars is greatly preferable to ending up with Kendricks and some LB that is below average or unknown in the defense.

That means getting Wilson to agree to terms before bonus money is due Barr early in the league year. I am still undecided on how much I think the team should be willing to pay Wilson when they already have Barr as a good alternative.

Maybe Wilson signs a deal with an average value of $8M per year and cap charges of $4M, $8M, $9M, $9M, and $10M. That would save Vikings serious cap dollars that could be used in the trenches: $3.3M, $7.6M and $9.1M over the remainder of Barr's current contract. It would also leave the Vikings with two more years of a LB under contract. If the Vikings could get Wilson on a deal like that I couldn't argue with the need to channel more resources to the lines. Put it into an extension for O'Neill, a DT, and/or an OG.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

I think you have to do it in reverse order. First, sign Wilson and then cut Barr. I wouldn't cut Barr hoping that Wilson would sign with the team. Only cut Barr if Wilson agrees with the team on a deal that makes it a worthwhile proposition. I do think that Barr is overpaid for what he brings the defense, but (over)paying Barr those dollars is greatly preferable to ending up with Kendricks and some LB that is below average or unknown in the defense.

That means getting Wilson to agree to terms before bonus money is due Barr early in the league year. I am still undecided on how much I think the team should be willing to pay Wilson when they already have Barr as a good alternative.

Maybe Wilson signs a deal with an average value of $8M per year and cap charges of $4M, $8M, $9M, $9M, and $10M. That would save Vikings serious cap dollars that could be used in the trenches: $3.3M, $7.6M and $9.1M over the remainder of Barr's current contract. It would also leave the Vikings with two more years of a LB under contract. If the Vikings could get Wilson on a deal like that I couldn't argue with the need to channel more resources to the lines. Put it into an extension for O'Neill, a DT, and/or an OG.

Sounds like a plan. As long as we can re-sign Wilson and Harris, I think we can fill all of our other holes through the draft. The reason why I want Harris back so bad is mostly because of an aging Harrison Smith. Going into his last few seasons, the last thing we want is Smith to cover up for a rookie safety’s mistakes. Anthony Harris makes Harrison Smith’s job much easier because he is smart and understands the system. Replacing that will take some time, which is what Harrison Smith doesn’t have much to spare. Also like I said earlier, I think Anthony Harris can be signed to a much cheaper deal now.

Edited by Purplepride323
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