Elway promoted (kind of); George Paton hired as GM

[anewdawn]

2 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

if we land Stafford, I'd flip out.  He knows how to use big body receivers in the red zone...can only imagine how he would use Albert O, Fant, or Cortland.

Living right across the river and having the Lions as my second most followed team I just can't see them trading Stafford.  The Lions are FULL of holes.  Their entire defense sucks and a reminder why you don't take a CB (Okudah) high in the draft.  They are losing receivers everywhere.  Add to this a new gm and new coach and if you trade Stafford and don't fleece anyone you will create the biggest hole a team can have and they just need to look to Denver for that.  I wanted them to draft a qb in the waiting last year.  Oh they could have had Herbert.  They are perennial losers who do nothing right and I can see them going winless next year if they trade Stafford.  Unless they fleece someone a Stafford trade just seems fn ridiculous and I definitely don't want to give up a first rounder for him.  Having said that they are a garbage, useless, stupid organization.  Maybe the most in all of sport and they trade him for little...............actually it fits their bill to a T !! 

[broncosfan_101]

Paton going after Stafford certainly doesn’t jive with his statement. “No shortcuts”, “draft and develop is priority #1” doesn’t sound like someone who wants to trade a couple 2nd’s for an expensive 33 year old QB. 
 

Doesn’t take a first round QB out of play, though. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by broncosfan_101

[AnAngryAmerican]

23 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Paton going after Stafford certainly doesn’t jive with his statement. “No shortcuts”, “draft and develop is priority #1” doesn’t sound like someone who wants to trade a couple 2nd’s for an expensive 33 year old QB. 
 

Doesn’t take a first round QB out of play, though. 

With a 6-year deal, he has a wide berth. The fact they went outside the organization, hired someone with no ties to the organization and both Elway and Ellis announced that they’re done next March, I think he remakes the team in his own image. 

My bet is that he uses the off-season to stock young talent, I think he signs Simmons long-term and keeps Von. I think he signs a vet to compete with Lock. I think he gives Fangio/Shurmur another year but then plays the long game to see what the new owner wants. 

In short, regardless of what Klis says, I don’t see a huge move like trading for Stafford or trading multiple picks to move up for Wilson/Fields.

I think a move down from #9 is more likely than a move up from it. I think he going to plays the long game, sets himself up this year with an eye towards the next - tells the new owner he has a plan and has the draft capital and cap room to execute it.

[The Helicopter]

25 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

With a 6-year deal, he has a wide berth. The fact they went outside the organization, hired someone with no ties to the organization and both Elway and Ellis announced that they’re done next March, I think he remakes the team in his own image. 

My bet is that he uses the off-season to stock young talent, I think he signs Simmons long-term and keeps Von. I think he signs a vet to compete with Lock. I think he gives Fangio/Shurmur another year but then plays the long game to see what the new owner wants. 

In short, regardless of what Klis says, I don’t see a huge move like trading for Stafford or trading multiple picks to move up for Wilson/Fields.

I think a move down from #9 is more likely than a move up from it. I think he going to plays the long game, sets himself up this year with an eye towards the next - tells the new owner he has a plan and has the draft capital and cap room to execute it.

It would benefit all us rabid fans to settle in and get on board the long game train.

[Dbrog24]

Kinda agree with AAA. I could definitely see us, and I would prefer, trading back in this draft to grab extra assets, re-sign Von, Simmons and Harris, and then give the staff 1 more year to prove with less injuries that this team either could or couldn't be something. This not only allows Paton to get a greater sense of the needs of this team, it also sets him up for a situation where if Von bounces back, he could flip him for even more picks in 2022 and possibly leverage various picks for a QBOFT in the draft.

[broncosfan_101]

15 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

With a 6-year deal, he has a wide berth. The fact they went outside the organization, hired someone with no ties to the organization and both Elway and Ellis announced that they’re done next March, I think he remakes the team in his own image. 

My bet is that he uses the off-season to stock young talent, I think he signs Simmons long-term and keeps Von. I think he signs a vet to compete with Lock. I think he gives Fangio/Shurmur another year but then plays the long game to see what the new owner wants. 

In short, regardless of what Klis says, I don’t see a huge move like trading for Stafford or trading multiple picks to move up for Wilson/Fields.

I think a move down from #9 is more likely than a move up from it. I think he going to plays the long game, sets himself up this year with an eye towards the next - tells the new owner he has a plan and has the draft capital and cap room to execute it.

I don’t think it’s wise to waste a year to find out what the new owner wants. Start your plan on day one, adapt later if the new owner wants you to change course. 
 

As for trading down, it should be noted that Spielman LOVES trading down. Doesn’t mean that Paton will, but I’d guess that’s where he’d lean, as well.
 

Also, the Vikings have been very aggressive trying to avoid QB Purgatory. Favre took them to the NFCCG, struggled the next year, and they immediately pivoted to drafting Christian Ponder and bringing in Donovan F. McNabb. It only took 2.5 years of watching Ponder for the Vikes to move up into the first (the only trade up in the first I can remember them making) for Teddy Bridgewater. Instead of settling for Keenum/Teddy (after Keenum had a real good year and Teddy still had promise on his way back from the knee injury), they snagged Cousins. They’ve never settled for average QB play (until locking themselves into Cousins, but it was a super aggressive move on their part.)

If we’re extrapolating based on Spielman’s decision-making, a trade up for Parsons seems very unlikely. A trade up for a QB absolutely looks in play. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

3 hours ago, broncosfan_101 said:

I don’t think it’s wise to waste a year to find out what the new owner wants. Start your plan on day one, adapt later if the new owner wants you to change course. 
 

As for trading down, it should be noted that Spielman LOVES trading down. Doesn’t mean that Paton will, but I’d guess that’s where he’d lean, as well.
 

Also, the Vikings have been very aggressive trying to avoid QB Purgatory. Favre took them to the NFCCG, struggled the next year, and they immediately pivoted to drafting Christian Ponder and bringing in Donovan F. McNabb. It only took 2.5 years of watching Ponder for the Vikes to move up into the first (the only trade up in the first I can remember them making) for Teddy Bridgewater. Instead of settling for Keenum/Teddy (after Keenum had a real good year and Teddy still had promise on his way back from the knee injury), they snagged Cousins. They’ve never settled for average QB play (until locking themselves into Cousins, but it was a super aggressive move on their part.)

If we’re extrapolating based on Spielman’s decision-making, a trade up for Parsons seems very unlikely. A trade up for a QB absolutely looks in play. 

Or, as we should hope, he’s learned from that long list of Spielman mistakes with QBs you just outlined and doesn’t bounce from one bandaid attempt at a quick fix after another. That’s how we ended up where we are. 

Now look, if Matt Stafford or even Matt Ryan become available for a modest price, I would be open to making a deal. With that being said the price would have to be right. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

To add to what I just said, it’s the conundrum we find ourselves in. 

We have some young talent on the roster, particularly on offense. Does Paton see this as a team, with a upper-half QB, a couple free agents and a rookie or two who can contribute on day 1 away from the playoffs? If so, look for him to go the Ellis/Elway/Russell route and attempt to win now. 

If he sees the team as one with some very nice young pieces but an aging defense, a HC who should be a DC, an OC who shouldn’t be on the staff and bosses with one foot out the door, he might opt for the long game. 

I’m hoping he opts for the long game but if he opts for win now, he better damn well win now or he’s going to be run out of town. 

Edited January 14, 2021 by AnAngryAmerican

[anewdawn]

50 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Or, as we should hope, he’s learned from that long list of Spielman mistakes with QBs you just outlined and doesn’t bounce from one bandaid attempt at a quick fix after another. That’s how we ended up where we are. 

Now look, if Matt Stafford or even Matt Ryan become available for a modest price, I would be open to making a deal. With that being said the price would have to be right. 

My son was over tonight.  The last night before our province is on a stay at home order.  We both know the limitations of Stafford on the Lions and my son likes him a ton less than i do but we talked and agreed that maybe a first to resolve our qb mess and get Stafford may be likely.  Like what are you getting in the draft that improves us long term other than what the hell we need - a qb!!  Get r done!!  

[broncosfan_101]

14 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Or, as we should hope, he’s learned from that long list of Spielman mistakes with QBs you just outlined and doesn’t bounce from one bandaid attempt at a quick fix after another. That’s how we ended up where we are. 

Now look, if Matt Stafford or even Matt Ryan become available for a modest price, I would be open to making a deal. With that being said the price would have to be right. 

Sam Bradford! Bradford was in there, too. These bandaids all made sense at the time, though. Favre turned them into instant SB contenders. Bradford was desperation after going 11-5 and then Teddy getting injured in training camp. After going 13-3 with Keenum, they recognized how he was smoke and mirrors and thought they needed a real QB to keep that window open, so they turned to Cousins, who had a couple elite seasons with WSH. 
 

The point is, the Vikes went with win-now options when they had potential windows to win. And they’ve been aggressive. But they haven’t gone after a win-now option coming off of four straight losing seasons. 

[jolly red giant]

I have (that should have said haven't) totally given up on Lock - but if we had a better QB (and I'm talking about average) this season we could have been 8-8 if not better.

Edited January 14, 2021 by jolly red giant

[broncos67]

I'm of the opinion that Paton may (should?) look to deal Von for draft capital. In part I think a lot of it will have to do with our feelings on QB, but I could certainly see an offseason dedicated to locking up Simmons/Shelby, drafting heavy on defense, signing a competent vet QB, letting Lock prove himself with a second season, and setting ourselves up for a QB in 2022.

Personally, I would expect that if we do get a new starting QB, it's a proven vet like Stafford or Watson. I don't see the logic in drafting a new QB with a coach/OC combo that *could* be up in the air. Build up the defensive positions of importance, see where the young offensive players go and what Lock's development looks like, and pivot accordingly. By 2022, you will have a stocked offensive cupboard (hopefully)

[Joe_is_the_best]

38 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I'm of the opinion that Paton may (should?) look to deal Von for draft capital. In part I think a lot of it will have to do with our feelings on QB, but I could certainly see an offseason dedicated to locking up Simmons/Shelby, drafting heavy on defense, signing a competent vet QB, letting Lock prove himself with a second season, and setting ourselves up for a QB in 2022.

Personally, I would expect that if we do get a new starting QB, it's a proven vet like Stafford or Watson. I don't see the logic in drafting a new QB with a coach/OC combo that *could* be up in the air. Build up the defensive positions of importance, see where the young offensive players go and what Lock's development looks like, and pivot accordingly. By 2022, you will have a stocked offensive cupboard (hopefully)

Von hasn't played in a year and he's getting older. I don't think we'll get good value. If he balls out next season, his value will be much higher.

[broncosfan_101]

40 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I'm of the opinion that Paton may (should?) look to deal Von for draft capital. In part I think a lot of it will have to do with our feelings on QB, but I could certainly see an offseason dedicated to locking up Simmons/Shelby, drafting heavy on defense, signing a competent vet QB, letting Lock prove himself with a second season, and setting ourselves up for a QB in 2022.

Personally, I would expect that if we do get a new starting QB, it's a proven vet like Stafford or Watson. I don't see the logic in drafting a new QB with a coach/OC combo that *could* be up in the air. Build up the defensive positions of importance, see where the young offensive players go and what Lock's development looks like, and pivot accordingly. By 2022, you will have a stocked offensive cupboard (hopefully)

I don’t think we’re getting real value for Von in a trade. Are teams gonna line up to pay $18M for a 32 year old pass rusher coming off a significant injury? Giving up an early pick to do it? That’s the same age when DAL cut DeMarcus Ware after an injury-plagued season. (And it should be noted, he only got $30M/3 from us in free agency that summer.) I think a Von restructure is the best bet, followed closely by an outright cut. 

And Paton could just as easily quell the rumours of Vic/Pat job insecurity by drafting a QB early. Based on Minny’s history, I could see this going either the early draft pick direction, or the fringy-starter vet (like Cassel and McNabb being brought in to push/help Ponder). Going the Stafford route would be a change, unless Paton somehow thinks we’re a real contender. 

[jsthomp2007]

20 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

With a 6-year deal, he has a wide berth. The fact they went outside the organization, hired someone with no ties to the organization and both Elway and Ellis announced that they’re done next March, I think he remakes the team in his own image. 

My bet is that he uses the off-season to stock young talent, I think he signs Simmons long-term and keeps Von. I think he signs a vet to compete with Lock. I think he gives Fangio/Shurmur another year but then plays the long game to see what the new owner wants. 

In short, regardless of what Klis says, I don’t see a huge move like trading for Stafford or trading multiple picks to move up for Wilson/Fields.

I think a move down from #9 is more likely than a move up from it. I think he going to plays the long game, sets himself up this year with an eye towards the next - tells the new owner he has a plan and has the draft capital and cap room to execute it.

I can get with this.  It sounds like the big girl at the end of the party that I would bring home and then marry, because she like to f***ck and had a good personality.  

Edited January 14, 2021 by jsthomp2007