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Elway promoted (kind of); George Paton hired as GM


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1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

He's a RFA, so it's just a matter of what we tender him at - 2nd round at 3.4 M, or original tender at 2.2M (to save 1.2M), but let him find another team with no compensation.   2nd rounder seems likely - if someone wants to offer Patrick a long-term deal and we'd get a 2nd rounder back, we'd happily part ways with that.   And 3.4M for a 4th WR, even if everyone else is healthy, is justifiable on a team without cap issues, and that's us.

And he's a stable veteran that be cool to have and keep I'd love a second rounder though lol.

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13 hours ago, Counselor said:

With Daboll returning to Buffalo for 2021 and Bienemy maybe not getting a gig this year I hope we fire Fangio after this season and give both of those guys a look.

I don't want anything to do with Bieniemy. I see a coach who is the epitome of the hot coordinator who completely tanks as a HC.

One, Andy Reid is the real offensive coordinator on that staff, it's his scheme and he calls the plays. Furthermore, the team also has Matt Kafka, who QBs coach and passing game coordinator; it's unclear what Bieniemy even does.  

Two, he has one of the most talented QBs to ever play the game, in any era, and a compliment of elite skill position talent surrounding said QB. Before he went to KC he was the RBs coach in Minnesota when they had Adrian Peterson; I could coach AD and he would get 1200 yards and 12 TDs.

Three, the fact that he has interviewed for multiple jobs of the last couple years, and, if he doesn't land one this year, that is certainly a red flag. Every year we see at least one team make a hot coordinator hire, most of them based on the  "he's the coordinator of a great unit on an elite team so must be a good head coach" logic.

And four, I know a number of people who are close to CU football program who likewise don't want anything to do with him after his disastrous one-year stint there as what was a basically a co-HC with Embree. These folks aren't using the simple "we went 0-11 so Bieniemy sucks" line of reasoning, there was a lot there was a total mess I've been told. 

I would be willing to give DaBoll a look as he seems to be something of his own man. I do have concerns though of anyone with ties to New England but he has stops in several different places both in college and the NFL. 

Edited by AnAngryAmerican
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27 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

And four, I know a number of people who are close to CU football program who likewise don't want anything to do with him after his disastrous one-year stint there as what was a basically a co-HC with Embree. These folks aren't using the simple "we went 0-11 so Bieniemy sucks" line of reasoning, there was a lot there was a total mess I've been told. 

I would be willing to give DaBoll a look as he seems to be something of his own man. I do have concerns though of anyone with ties to New England but he has stops in several different places both in college and the

Very valid points I wish the Josina anderson and Louis Riidick would see this. All they do is call it a disgrace and play the two minute andy reid press conference video hyping him up.

Maybe he has grown I don't think we can afford to take that chance.

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https://zonecoverage.com/2020/nfl-draft/the-history-of-trader-rick-evaluating-rick-spielmans-history-of-draft-trades/

Such a great read hard not to get excited after this read. They turned Cassel into Diggs wow that one stood out. 

And Bridgewater looked like the perfect sneaky qb to make playoff runs with. before that catostrophic injury would of loved to see how that went without that injury. 

I think Teddy B has some type of it factor not many players even come back from his injury and he landed a second big contract impressive ability to come back from that.

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5 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Very valid points I wish the Josina anderson and Louis Riidick would see this. All they do is call it a disgrace and play the two minute andy reid press conference video hyping him up.

Maybe he has grown I don't think we can afford to take that chance.

Yeah there’s some in the media - and all across the media, you mention two of them and you’re spot-on - who have an agenda on this issue. 

I don’t think I’ve ever heard a head coach not give an endorsement to one of his assistants when interviewing or getting a HC job. Kyle was just talking about Robert Saleh before he was hired. I wasn’t surprised to hear that at all but, unlike Bieniemy, I think Saleh is going to be a good HC. 

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So, with all the talk of firing Fangio, new HC's, etc. I'm just curious what opinions we have on what qualities/abilities we want out of a HC and how you'd prioritize them. Things like team preparedness, sideline abilities, player development, etc.

Anyway, I'm real curious what you guys think are most important. I'll toss in my feelings on it later on.

 

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7 hours ago, AKRNA said:

So, with all the talk of firing Fangio, new HC's, etc. I'm just curious what opinions we have on what qualities/abilities we want out of a HC and how you'd prioritize them. Things like team preparedness, sideline abilities, player development, etc.

Anyway, I'm real curious what you guys think are most important. I'll toss in my feelings on it later on.

 

Well, I think some of this depends on the makeup of a team at a given time. Example- if you have a veteran team looking to get over the hump, you are probably not going to prioritize player development the same way you might with a young roster and a host of draft picks. That said, for our team I will say the following:

1. Player Development- right now for Denver, this is a no-brainer for me. A lot of youth across the board- need to see these players make the jump year over year, and become long-term contributors for the Broncos.

2. Team Preparedness- I will give Fangio credit here. The Broncos usually fight hard in games and play tough, which is a departure from the past where there was definitely some going through the motions. I think having a coach that can manage personalities and still manage to motivate professional athletes is critical.

3a. Time Management- this is increasingly critical and can absolutely serve as a competitive edge on gamedays. We have been an abysmal team when it comes to clock management for many years. This isn't exclusively a Fangio thing. Joseph was bad. Kubiak was okay. There's a lot to be desired here, and teams that have good time managers (either as HC, or alongside the HC) give themselves a competitive edge, IMO.

3b.Outside the box thinking- this probably is a bit of a catch all, but I want a coach who will embrace analytics on things like 4th down conversions, player selection, playcalling, etc... The same conservative, vanilla approach is what lands you at 6-10 each year. I think you need elements of 1 and 2 above to be able to really embrace a different way of doing things/more risk, but it's necessary in today's NFL.

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The one thing that I took from the press conference introducing Paton was not anything he said but a comment by Fangio.

When Fangio was asked about evaluating Lock - he said that he wanted Paton to go off independently of the coaching staff and evaluate Lock himself. He said that then the coaching staff would be available to answer any questions he might have in order to allow him to do a comprehensive evaluation.

I like it that Fangio wanted to avoid any biased views on Lock before Paton had an opportunity to evaluate him independently - and it suggests to me that Fangio wouldn't have a problem if we moved on from Lock.

I know there is a lot of criticism of Fangio as a HC on the forum - but he hasn't been dealt the best hand in terms of circumstance - in his first season he was lumbered with Flacco and had Lock on IR, he lost Callahan and Chubb to IR. The first four losses were by a total of 23 points and four of the nine losses during the season were by a total of 10 points. In his second season he had no preseason to help Lock develop, lost Miller and Sutton off the bat and got hammered by injuries all season - and at one point he had to use a UDFA WR at QB. And even with these issues the team lost six games by one score.

Fangio was asked if he was worried about Paton sacking him next season after Fangio supported his appointment - and Fangio's response was 'that's football' and if that is what Paton's got to do, that's what he's got to do.

I am optimistic about next season - I like where Paton is coming from (metaphorically speaking), I like the coaching staff (with the exception of McMahon - and hopefully Paton will dump him sooner rather than later) and I think we have a decent bunch of good young players. Unless QB is a complete cluster**** then I think we can have a winning season. Whether that will be enough to save Fangio's job is an open question - but the guy will be 63 and there might be wholesale changes when the team is sold (which I expect to happen)

Something that Paton needs to do as soon as possible is pick his assistant - he needs someone from outside the franchise to be able to bounce stuff off of while he is evaluating the roster. I would prefer if it wasn't Stark.

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3 hours ago, broncos67 said:

3b.Outside the box thinking- this probably is a bit of a catch all, but I want a coach who will embrace analytics on things like 4th down conversions, player selection, playcalling, etc... The same conservative, vanilla approach is what lands you at 6-10 each year. I think you need elements of 1 and 2 above to be able to really embrace a different way of doing things/more risk, but it's necessary in today's NFL.

Paton said that analytics are being used and will be used in the future

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I think everyone is pretty much in agreement about Fangio. He is solid enough. Not great. Not good enough if we ever are trying to win a championship. But he's fine for now. His work on the defensive side of the football (with the injuries) has been incredibly impressive.

My thing is you need a great offense to compete today. That means you either have an elite QB. Or an elite offensive mind running the show (see SF, LAR). So if we don't get that QB, I would ideally like a great offensive mind in the building and you have to make that guy a HC. Shurmer is definitely not that dude lol. As of now we have neither and are therefore an unserious franchise.

But trying to find the guy I just described above leads to a lot of misses. @AnAngryAmerican has his go to line on that coordinator.

I've read Allbright say that teams aren't into Bienemy because he has some sort of spotty past legally or something along those lines. Pretty odd he hasn't gotten a job yet, but there is something going on there. 

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55 minutes ago, champ11 said:

I think everyone is pretty much in agreement about Fangio. He is solid enough. Not great. Not good enough if we ever are trying to win a championship. But he's fine for now. His work on the defensive side of the football (with the injuries) has been incredibly impressive.

My thing is you need a great offense to compete today. That means you either have an elite QB. Or an elite offensive mind running the show (see SF, LAR). So if we don't get that QB, I would ideally like a great offensive mind in the building and you have to make that guy a HC. Shurmer is definitely not that dude lol. As of now we have neither and are therefore an unserious franchise.

But trying to find the guy I just described above leads to a lot of misses. @AnAngryAmerican has his go to line on that coordinator.

I've read Allbright say that teams aren't into Bienemy because he has some sort of spotty past legally or something along those lines. Pretty odd he hasn't gotten a job yet, but there is something going on there. 

I agree. Offense is the key in winning going forward. Having a defense that is just good enough to make a big play every now and again, or hunker down in the red zone is as good as it'll get on that side. Ideally, if Fangio is fired, we get an offensive minded coach and invest on that side of the ball. If McVay or Shannahan somehow become available (a missed playoffs or two could potentially open them up) or if somehow we are able to pull Lincoln Riley away from Oklahoma, those would be ideal scenarios. 

 

Nick Saban said something similar too: 

"It used to be that good defense beats good offense. Good defense doesn't beat good offense anymore," Saban told ESPN on Friday. "It's just like last week. Georgia has as good a defense as we do an offense, and we scored 41 points on them [in a 41-24 Alabama win]. That's not the way it used to be. It used to be if you had a good defense, other people weren't going to score. You were always going to be in the game.

"I'm telling you. It ain't that way anymore."

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3 hours ago, champ11 said:

I think everyone is pretty much in agreement about Fangio. He is solid enough. Not great. Not good enough if we ever are trying to win a championship. But he's fine for now. His work on the defensive side of the football (with the injuries) has been incredibly impressive.

My thing is you need a great offense to compete today. That means you either have an elite QB. Or an elite offensive mind running the show (see SF, LAR). So if we don't get that QB, I would ideally like a great offensive mind in the building and you have to make that guy a HC. Shurmer is definitely not that dude lol. As of now we have neither and are therefore an unserious franchise.

But trying to find the guy I just described above leads to a lot of misses. @AnAngryAmerican has his go to line on that coordinator.

I've read Allbright say that teams aren't into Bienemy because he has some sort of spotty past legally or something along those lines. Pretty odd he hasn't gotten a job yet, but there is something going on there. 

Here’s some of the stuff about Bieniemy past. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cincyjungle.com/platform/amp/2019/1/6/18169793/bengals-coach-search-chiefs-eric-bieniemy-vance-joseph-broncos

There might be more, I’m not going to speculate, and teams are sensitive to PR issues when making a high-profile hire. 

My concerns with Bieniemy are far more about his ability to be a NFL HC. I don’t see it on his resume, as I outlined earlier, and if he doesn’t get an HC job again this year, it should raise a red flag. 

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Fangio largely has been what he was sold as: genius defensive coach, great attention to detail leading to strong game day preparation, disciplined play, solid player development program, consistent effort from players 

The next step is 99% on the offense/QB to make the jump so the things Fangio does bring to the table can lead to wins 

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