Texans hire Nick Caserio as GM

[hornbybrown]

3 hours ago, ChazStandard said:

Why all the doom and gloom? Yes, Pats coordinators don't work out well as head coaches, but generally speaking FO personnel do all right. Pioli did some good work in KC, and Dimitroff did OK in Atlanta. I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

The Pats have drafted two pro bowl players the last 8 years. They have only been good because of the best coach and QB ever. If they did a half decent job acquiring talent they would of won the super bowl a lot more than they did.

[Deadpulse]

Pro Bowlers drafted between 2010 and 2019.

Team	Picks	Pro Bowlers	%		Team	Picks	Pro Bowlers	%		Team	Picks	Pro Bowlers	%
KAN	74	15	20.3%		CLE	91	9	9.9%		HOU	79	6	7.6%
DAL	81	13	16.0%		LAC	67	8	11.9%		DEN	79	6	7.6%
BAL	89	12	13.5%		ARI	76	8	10.5%		PHI	80	6	7.5%
MIN	96	12	12.5%		SFO	96	8	8.3%		CIN	93	6	6.5%
SEA	97	12	12.4%		CAR	68	7	10.3%		NYG	71	5	7.0%
MIA	76	10	13.2%		TAM	72	7	9.7%		BUF	77	5	6.5%
PIT	83	10	12.0%		TEN	77	7	9.1%		IND	80	5	6.3%
NOR	61	9	14.8%		WAS	88	7	8.0%		NWE	87	5	5.7%
CHI	63	9	14.3%		LAR	90	7	7.8%		NYJ	71	4	5.6%
ATL	68	9	13.2%		JAX	70	6	8.6%		OAK	86	4	4.7%
GNB	89	9	10.1%		DET	77	6	7.8%

[Forge]

1 minute ago, Deadpulse said:

Pro Bowlers drafted between 2010 and 2019.

Team	Picks	Pro Bowlers	%		Team	Picks	Pro Bowlers	%		Team	Picks	Pro Bowlers	%
KAN	74	15	20.3%		CLE	91	9	9.9%		HOU	79	6	7.6%
DAL	81	13	16.0%		LAC	67	8	11.9%		DEN	79	6	7.6%
BAL	89	12	13.5%		ARI	76	8	10.5%		PHI	80	6	7.5%
MIN	96	12	12.5%		SFO	96	8	8.3%		CIN	93	6	6.5%
SEA	97	12	12.4%		CAR	68	7	10.3%		NYG	71	5	7.0%
MIA	76	10	13.2%		TAM	72	7	9.7%		BUF	77	5	6.5%
PIT	83	10	12.0%		TEN	77	7	9.1%		IND	80	5	6.3%
NOR	61	9	14.8%		WAS	88	7	8.0%		NWE	87	5	5.7%
CHI	63	9	14.3%		LAR	90	7	7.8%		NYJ	71	4	5.6%
ATL	68	9	13.2%		JAX	70	6	8.6%		OAK	86	4	4.7%
GNB	89	9	10.1%		DET	77	6	7.8%

This just makes me more confused about Dallas

[Jax]

7 minutes ago, Forge said:

This just makes me more confused about Dallas

Dallas has had substandard coaching and a lot of individually talented players that haven't meshed well together into cohesive units (especially on defense). This season their injuries played a major factor in their failure of course, same as San Fran.

[RaidersAreOne]

33 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Pro Bowlers drafted between 2010 and 2019.

Team	Picks	Pro Bowlers	%		Team	Picks	Pro Bowlers	%		Team	Picks	Pro Bowlers	%
KAN	74	15	20.3%		CLE	91	9	9.9%		HOU	79	6	7.6%
DAL	81	13	16.0%		LAC	67	8	11.9%		DEN	79	6	7.6%
BAL	89	12	13.5%		ARI	76	8	10.5%		PHI	80	6	7.5%
MIN	96	12	12.5%		SFO	96	8	8.3%		CIN	93	6	6.5%
SEA	97	12	12.4%		CAR	68	7	10.3%		NYG	71	5	7.0%
MIA	76	10	13.2%		TAM	72	7	9.7%		BUF	77	5	6.5%
PIT	83	10	12.0%		TEN	77	7	9.1%		IND	80	5	6.3%
NOR	61	9	14.8%		WAS	88	7	8.0%		NWE	87	5	5.7%
CHI	63	9	14.3%		LAR	90	7	7.8%		NYJ	71	4	5.6%
ATL	68	9	13.2%		JAX	70	6	8.6%		OAK	86	4	4.7%
GNB	89	9	10.1%		DET	77	6	7.8%

[drd23]

2 hours ago, KhanYouDigIt said:

lmao

That's probably social justice/Jacob Blake related, but even if it is the timing is not great

[Jakuvious]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

This just makes me more confused about Dallas

They've gotten spectacularly little long term production out of the talent they've acquired, for a myriad of reasons. Whether it's guys who weren't that good in the first place, coaching failures, or front office failures, that list of 13 pro bowlers is loaded with guys who looked really good and then had an early exit or decline. Injuries for Bryant, Lee, Prescott, and LVE. Early retirement from Frederick. Lawrence got paid and quit. Jones and Harris left in FA (Harris being a return man inflates the number, kind of.) Murray and Zeke were RBs. Jaylon Smith might have been a fan vote. I don't feel like he was that good, but I'd be lying if I said I paid that much attention. Tyron Smith and Zach Martin are really the only guys they've gotten conventional pro-bowl careers out of.

[Scoundrel]

29 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

They've gotten spectacularly little long term production out of the talent they've acquired, for a myriad of reasons. Whether it's guys who weren't that good in the first place, coaching failures, or front office failures, that list of 13 pro bowlers is loaded with guys who looked really good and then had an early exit or decline. Injuries for Bryant, Lee, Prescott, and LVE. Early retirement from Frederick. Lawrence got paid and quit. Jones and Harris left in FA (Harris being a return man inflates the number, kind of.) Murray and Zeke were RBs. Jaylon Smith might have been a fan vote. I don't feel like he was that good, but I'd be lying if I said I paid that much attention. Tyron Smith and Zach Martin are really the only guys they've gotten conventional pro-bowl careers out of.

This has a lot to do with it. America’s team after all. 

[Hunter2_1]

3 hours ago, hornbybrown said:

The Pats have drafted two pro bowl players the last 8 years. They have only been good because of the best coach and QB ever. If they did a half decent job acquiring talent they would of won the super bowl a lot more than they did.

Catch 22 though isn't it. Always picking late 20s, 30s or not at all in the first round.

It's not an excuse for poor drafting (Harry for example), but it is a fair point, in my opinion 

[ET80]

2 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Catch 22 though isn't it. Always picking late 20s, 30s or not at all in the first round.

But it's not like Pro Bowlers are found in the first - in your example, Harry went ahead of three Pro Bowl WRs. Sony Michel was taken ahead of Nick Chubb and Ronald Jones II.

It's a clear and present misunderstanding by the Patriots on who is going to develop into a good player and who isn't.

Quick exercise here - who is the last good player drafted by the Pats with their first pick? Not even a Pro Bowler, but a guy who hasn't been a complete disaster? Not Harry, not Michel... Derek Rivers? Malcolm Brown? Dominic Easley?

That's a flat out disaster.

And it's my disaster now.

[Hunter2_1]

1 minute ago, ET80 said:

But it's not like Pro Bowlers are found in the first - in your example, Harry went ahead of three Pro Bowl WRs. Sony Michel was taken ahead of Nick Chubb and Ronald Jones II.

It's a clear and present misunderstanding by the Patriots on who is going to develop into a good player and who isn't.

Quick exercise here - who is the last good player drafted by the Pats with their first pick? Not even a Pro Bowler, but a guy who hasn't been a complete disaster? Not Harry, not Michel... Derek Rivers? Malcolm Brown? Dominic Easley?

That's a flat out disaster.

And it's my disaster now.

I think it's Dugger, but if you discount this season...

I'm tempted to say Michel because he did run us to a SB but since he's been bad. I'll say Wynn. Franchise LT probably.

 

But your point about pro bowlers in first round is correct. I don't know who is actually picking then? Who has final refusal? We always blame BB, but is it Caseiro?

 

One good thing, you can't deny our ability to find gems at OL. Always picking gems at OL that people don't expect. Thuney, Andrews and Onwenu of recent drafts spring to mind. 

[drd23]

1 hour ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Catch 22 though isn't it. Always picking late 20s, 30s or not at all in the first round.

It's not an excuse for poor drafting (Harry for example), but it is a fair point, in my opinion 

Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Green Bay etc haven't been picking much earlier (if at all) in the same time period compared to the Pats and yet have been more successful at drafting eventual Pro Bowlers

[EvilenFroggen]

Read someone referring to Easterby as Cal McNair’s Rasputin. Seems apt. 

[ET80]

2 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

But your point about pro bowlers in first round is correct. I don't know who is actually picking then? Who has final refusal? We always blame BB, but is it Caseiro?

This is a lose/lose scenario:

- If it's Caserio, then it's evidence he doesn't know what he's doing.

- If it's Belicheck, then Caserio doesn't have enough experience or pull to effectively do the job he just signed up for.

2 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

One good thing, you can't deny our ability to find gems at OL. Always picking gems at OL that people don't expect. Thuney, Andrews and Onwenu of recent drafts spring to mind. 

How much of this is Dante Scarneccia? I'd argue that - specific to OL - coaching up technique and scheme is more than identifying talent. We've seen the OL guys leave New England and not live up to expectations (Trent Brown is good, but that's about it).

[ET80]