showtime Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 56 minutes ago, DannyB said: Absolutely, how one plays factors in. But I just don't think two data points is enough to call something a trend, especially when the first was his rookie year when he didn't even start the whole season. And by all means, we can talk about how he hasn't played well in the postseason so far, or that he played a bad game. But to extrapolate that into branding him as a playoff choker is ridiculous. If Lamar Jackson plays poorly in the playoff game on Sunday, then I think the criticism is justified. If the Ravens lose and Jackson plays well, then I think people should slow it down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Lamar IS the Ravens. I feel his playoff criticism is kinda unfair. You replace him with anybody that hasn’t won a MVP and the Ravens are scraping for 3rd in the AFC North. This is probably not the best comp, but Lamar has a Lebron effect where I think he makes guys look better than what they actually are. So unfortunately, it’s not a coincidence that when teams focus purely on Lamar, the “role players” look bad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, showtime said: If Lamar Jackson plays poorly in the playoff game on Sunday, then I think the criticism is justified. If the Ravens lose and Jackson plays well, then I think people should slow it down. I think you're just one step ahead of me. I basically don't count his rookie year at all. Rookie year, only started half of the games that season, the Chargers were no pushover that year, etc. If he looks like crap and loses in a game they probably should win (or that he should at least play well in), then I think he's kinda on the hot seat, if you will, to show something the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, candyman93 said: Lamar IS the Ravens. I feel his playoff criticism is kinda unfair. You replace him with anybody that hasn’t won a MVP and the Ravens are scraping for 3rd in the AFC North. This is probably not the best comp, but Lamar has a Lebron effect where I think he makes guys look better than what they actually are. So unfortunately, it’s not a coincidence that when teams focus purely on Lamar, the “role players” look bad. When you say role players, do you mean his weapons? Because I would say making it work when you don't have great weapons is what great QBs do. And when you say scraping for 3rd....you mean THIS YEAR? Like they would have been struggling to win 5 games and come in third over the Bengals, even if they had Russell Wilson or Josh Allen or DeShaun Watson? Because then you're high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) I fully expect the goal posts to move again if Lamar gets a playoff win this weekend. It will be “He’s only good if he can beat the Chiefs in KC”. Id be curious to see all the haters reaction if the Bills lose this weekend and Lamar gets a win. All the sudden I imagine 0-2 wouldn’t be the go-to indictment on a young QB (as it shouldn’t be) Edited January 9, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) I find all the AFC matchups this weekend EXTREMELY compelling and all of the NFC matchups to be trash/skippable. Makes it so that I can manage to not watch 6 games this weekend, which I wouldn't have been able to do anyway so it works out nicely. I'm also a fan of an AFC team in the playoffs so I can't say I'm objective, but even putting myself in a hypothetical objective situation, aren't all the NFC games like really bad? The "best"? NFC game may start a QB I've never seen play in Woffard? Wolford? Edited January 9, 2021 by wackywabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 3 hours ago, SkippyX said: And if he loses this weekend he is Randall Cunningham on the Eagles. I love Randall, but as an Eagle he rarely got it done in the playoffs. Brady 1st year playoffs = Super Bowl Mahomes 1st year playoffs = Dee Ford AFCCG loss 2nd year playoffs = Super Bowl Rodgers 1st year playoffs = 120 rated 400+ yard epic 51-45 loss 2nd year playoffs = Super Bowl Wilson 1st year playoffs = Moron coach icing the game losing FG 2nd year playoffs = Super Bowl Big Ben 1st year playoffs = AFCCG loss to Brady 2nd year playoffs = SB (bad game but he was the best player on the planet in the month before that Super Bowl) Eli 1st year playoffs humiliation 2nd year playoffs meh 3rd year playoffs Super Bowl Marino 1st year playoffs = loss 2nd year playoffs = Super Bowl appearance Elway 1st year playoffs = loss 2nd year playoffs = The Drive and a Super Bowl appearance Favre 1st year playoff win 2nd year playoff win 3rd year NFCCG 4th year SB Warner 1st year playoffs = Super Bowl Brees 1st year playoffs - lost in SD 2nd year playoffs - won a game 3rd year playoffs - Super Bowl Rivers (it went downhill from here) 1st year playoff loss 2nd year playoff win 3rd year AFCCG appearance and loss to Brady Montana 1st year playoffs - The Catch and a Super Bowl If you want to say Lamar has talent, belongs in the NFL, and is in that 8-12 range as a starter then enjoy. If you are talking about his status as an elite and accomplished QB who belongs with the big boys? ... not with a loss this week. I know that Peyton Manning started 0-3 in the playoffs and even pick-6'd his coach out the door. Let us know when Lamar starts putting up Peyton Manning passing stats (relative to the rest of the league) to apply for the exception to the rule. Wow, there is so much conclusion and agenda put into this post that I know your opinion isn't going to change one smidgen when Lamar's playoff sample size increases by 50% in 2 days. Lamar was 21 years old with 7 career starts and Michael Crabtree as his WR1 when he struggled against a LOADED 12-4 Chargers defense after taking over a losing team more than halfway through the season. That should 100% be a pass. The Titans game in 2019 was a disappointing performance for sure. One valid data point for him being a guy who can't get it done in the playoffs that can go to his playoff choker case. Oh by the way, take a good, long, look at Joe Flacco's playoff game log and let me know at what point you labeled him a playoff choker. How many games in? I'd like a number so I can apply to Lamar please? We can just go by playoff games, because Lamar is still younger than everyone but Ben when he won his first SB; he's the same age Flacco was as a rookie. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog/post/ And keep in mind that you already used the "exception" thing on Peyton Manning, so you can't use it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: I find all the AFC matchups this weekend EXTREMELY compelling and all of the NFC matchups to be trash/skippable. Makes it so that I can manage to not watch 6 games this weekend, which I wouldn't have been able to do anyway so it works out nicely. I'm also a fan of an AFC team in the playoffs so I can't say I'm objective, but even putting myself in a hypothetical objective situation, aren't all the NFC games like really bad? The "best"? NFC game may start a QB I've never seen play in Woffard? Wolford? Nah, in a vacuum I wouldn't find the NFC slate, at least this season, very compelling. I think some of the, like, secondary storylines could be interesting but overall the football will probably be terrible. But what I mean is... -Are the Saints somehow going to absolutely blow yet another SB shot, again? Or wait another round? -Seahawks/Rams is usually a good match. I'm going to pretend that Wooflord makes the Rams better or something because that seems fun. -The Bucs, astoundingly, seem like they could actually be much worse OR much better than their record suggests. Which team shows up? Can WFT take capitalize on certain matchup advantages and pull the upset? Probably not, but...maybe? I agree that the AFC looks like it'll be better football, and plenty of intrigue... -How do young QBs Jackson and Allen perform in the playoffs this time? -Can the Browns prove they deserve to be there or will the Steelers show them who their daddy is as usual? -Both the Colts and Titans have areas of impressive strength, but also potentially fatal flaws. Which show up? Can they find a way to put a band-aid on the flaws for a week at least? Should be a fun weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 3 hours ago, candyman93 said: Lamar IS the Ravens. Oh, also...yeah? That's how most of the NFL is for the good quarterbacks. The following could fit this template with their own name and respective team: Rodgers Allen Herbert Mahomes (they actually have a really good program so the team would still be pretty good, but Mahomes takes them from fighting for the division/being a wild card team, to being the favorite to win the SB) Murray Wilson Brady Watson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Wow, there is so much conclusion and agenda put into this post that I know your opinion isn't going to change one smidgen when Lamar's playoff sample size increases by 50% in 2 days. Lamar was 21 years old with 7 career starts and Michael Crabtree as his WR1 when he struggled against a LOADED 12-4 Chargers defense after taking over a losing team more than halfway through the season. That should 100% be a pass. The Titans game in 2019 was a disappointing performance for sure. One valid data point for him being a guy who can't get it done in the playoffs that can go to his playoff choker case. Oh by the way, take a good, long, look at Joe Flacco's playoff game log and let me know at what point you labeled him a playoff choker. How many games in? I'd like a number so I can apply to Lamar please? We can just go by playoff games, because Lamar is still younger than everyone but Ben when he won his first SB; he's the same age Flacco was as a rookie. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog/post/ And keep in mind that you already used the "exception" thing on Peyton Manning, so you can't use it again. STRAW MAN ALERT Flacco was a middling 12-18th best QB for most of his career. He was rancid early in the playoffs but he got carried. Very few people denied that. He had an Eli Manning like (better, actually Joe Montana like) playoff run that highlighted his Hall of Good career. 11 TDs to 0 picks. I am guessing you enjoyed this? He also finished with the following playoff splits: First 5 games: 4 TDs to 7 picks (rating around 45 maybe?) Last 8 games: 20 TDs to 4 picks (rating around 105 maybe?) So overall, he was a mediocre regular season QB and a very good playoff QB. (with a rough start) At no point was he considered a top 5 QB and if a top 10 it was in the 8-10 range. Its pathetic that I have to tell this to a Ravens fan. Let me translate it to my team. Nick Foles 2013 AWESOME Nick Foles in 2017 INCREDIBLE Nick Foles in 2018 Heck of a Job in relief Nick Foles compared to Brees, Montana, Marino, Rodgers, and Brady? His few incredible moments don't make him close to any of them. Next time you want to argue about Lamar's greatness we can all agree he is better than Flacco (regular season) and does not yet belong with the big boys. His 3rd playoff game not being his 3rd complete humiliation would be a great start. Edited January 9, 2021 by SkippyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, SkippyX said: STRAW MAN ALERT Flacco was a middling 12-18th best QB for most of his career. He was rancid early in the playoffs but he got carried. Very few people denied that. He had an Eli Manning like (better, actually Joe Montana like) playoff run that highlighted his Hall of Good career. 11 TDs to 0 picks. I am guessing you enjoyed this? He also finished with the following playoff splits: First 5 games: 4 TDs to 7 picks (rating around 45 maybe?) Last 8 games: 20 TDs to 4 picks (rating around 105 maybe?) So overall, he was a mediocre regular season QB and a very good playoff QB. (with a rough start) At no point was he considered a top 5 QB and if a top 10 it was in the 8-10 range. Its pathetic that I have to tell this to a Raven's fan. Bruh, you made a list that included Eli Manning and then are are complaining that I brought up Joe Flacco? <insert bold/colorful text or meme> Clearly we are talking about a QB playing poorly in his first X playoff games and then what that meant about them as a player. Lamar Jackson could have a terrible game on Sunday and would still have a better start in the playoffs than Flacco did, who by your own admission was "a very good playoff QB. (with a rough start)". https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog/post/https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackLa00/gamelog/post/ Edited January 9, 2021 by wackywabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Bruh, you made a list that included Eli Manning and then are are complaining that I brought up Joe Flacco? <insert bold/colorful text or meme> Clearly we are talking about a QB playing poorly in his first X playoff games and then what that meant about them as a player. Lamar Jackson could have a terrible game on Sunday and would still have a better start in the playoffs than Flacco did, who by your own admission was "a very good playoff QB. (with a rough start)". https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog/post/https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackLa00/gamelog/post/ Eli has won 2 Super Bowls Eli was similar in the playoffs to Lamar in years 1 and 2 of his playoffs experience but then was an all time single playoff season great in year 3. He also beat one of the greatest teams ever and did it with one of the signature plays of all time That is why I included him. He belongs on that list. (He's also going into the Hall of Fame, so there is that) Talking playoff years which don't come up every year and nobody cares if your 3rd playoffs is in year 3 or year 7. Brees was 4, 6, 9 Rodgers was 5,6,7 Mahomes was 2,3,4 Wilson was 1,2,3 Flacco was 1,2,3 You think Jackson should have a safe space where no one mentions his first 2 playoff runs. You don't get a safe space on a message board where you want to talk about your guy's greatness. If we are all still here in 2025 and Jackson went a bad 0-4 to start but has now won back to back SBs I will be the first in line to congratulate you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, SkippyX said: Talking playoff years which don't come up every year and nobody cares if your 3rd playoffs is in year 3 or year 7. Brees was 4, 6, 9 Rodgers was 5,6,7 Mahomes was 2,3,4 Wilson was 1,2,3 Flacco was 1,2,3 Well, I guess I'm on the side of nobody here then. Nobody is absolutely right that it makes a difference when a playoff game is your 7th career start of your rookie year vs your 5th year in the league. I'd like to hear more from this guy. 11 minutes ago, SkippyX said: You think Jackson should have a safe space where no one mentions his first 2 playoff runs. You don't get a safe space on a message board where you want to talk about your guy's greatness. Come on... you really want to do that thing where you "forget" and/or "ignore" something I said in post you read and quoted a half hour ago and instead make up an argument that maps to literally no quote I've said in this thread... or ever? Edited January 9, 2021 by wackywabbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Well, I guess I'm on the side of nobody here then. Nobody is absolutely right that it makes a difference when a playoff game is your 7th career start of your rookie year vs your 5th year in the league. I'd like to hear more from this guy. Follow the logic. My little QB is only 3 NFL years old. He can't be expected to even look competent in the playoffs yet. But you must also now respect him as elite!!! Even if we did fall for that he still gets his butt kicked by years 1,2,3 Russell Wilson and 2,3,4 Mahomes. A bad game in a loss on Sunday drops him behind Deshaun Watson too. A bad game in a win gets him another shot next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, SkippyX said: Follow the logic. My little QB is only 3 NFL years old. He can't be expected to even look competent in the playoffs yet. But you must also now respect him as elite!!! Even if we did fall for that he still gets his butt kicked by years 1,2,3 Russell Wilson and 2,3,4 Mahomes. A bad game in a loss on Sunday drops him behind Deshaun Watson too. A bad game in a win gets him another shot next week 1 hour ago, wackywabbit said: Lamar was 21 years old with 7 career starts and Michael Crabtree as his WR1 when he struggled against a LOADED 12-4 Chargers defense after taking over a losing team more than halfway through the season. That should 100% be a pass. The Titans game in 2019 was a disappointing performance for sure. One valid data point for him being a guy who can't get it done in the playoffs that can go to his playoff choker case. I literally only said that his game against the Chargers in his *8th start with an offense made up over the span of one week after a Flacco injury, should get a pass. The Titans loss last year is a valid data point that he can't perform in the playoffs. But that is not nearly enough data points to make a conclusion about what he is/will be. No one is making career/legacy comparisons between Lamar and Wilson and Mahomes. WHo cares about that now? Legacy is an offseason topic. Lamar is guy we need to see more of in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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