oakdb36 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 46 minutes ago, OnlyGlove said: Why would you want to trade Waller way for a 1st. To then try and find another Waller? How many 1st round players last year are better then Waller? 1st round picks are massively overrated. For a proven elite player like Waller you'd want multiple 1sts. I don't want to trade Waller. I'm telling you what i think his value is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: I don't want to trade Waller. I'm telling you what i think his value is. Same, I was just thinking if the Raiders make a push for Watson... then nothing is off the table and Waller at 6mil or whatever is probably among the best assets to generate value for Texans from Raiders (even if its not Waller to Texans, but move somewhere and then pass the comp to Houston). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, OnlyGlove said: If you could get Waller for a single 1st right now half the league would be offering the trade 1. You said two firsts, not one. 2. You're talking about a 28 y/o TE with two good seasons over a five year career. Given the shelf life at the position, he's maybe got another three years before he declines. You are SIGNIFICANTLY overrating him. Travis Kelce might get a 1st, and he's much better. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, ET80 said: 1. You said two firsts, not one. 2. You're talking about a 28 y/o TE with two good seasons over a five year career. Given the shelf life at the position, he's maybe got another three years before he declines. You are SIGNIFICANTLY overrating him. Travis Kelce might get a 1st, and he's much better. doesnt that shelf life contemplate that he is being worn down? waller wasnt really getting banged up in his first 3 seasons. barely played. i also dont think the "he's only been good in 2 of his 5 years" claim is fair. it implies its almost a crapshoot if he's going to be good or bad in a given year, and clearly his career took off in recent seasons. Kelce has nearly triple the wear and tear when looking at numbers like targets, catches, etc. obviously he's a better player, but i think its a weird way to compare them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, Turnobili said: doesnt that shelf life contemplate that he is being worn down? waller wasnt really getting banged up in his first 3 seasons. barely played. It's not wear and tear I'm talking about, it's the natural regression that happens when you get older and older. Father time is undefeated for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, ET80 said: It's not wear and tear I'm talking about, it's the natural regression that happens when you get older and older. Father time is undefeated for a reason. gronk and kelce are only 5 months apart. phsyical wear and mileage is a huge part of the equation. Edited February 3, 2021 by Turnobili Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, Turnobili said: gronk and kelce are only 5 months apart. phsyical wear and mileage is a huge part of the equation. And I'd argue that you'd probably not get a first for either (Kelce is a maybe). And that's ignoring that Kelce is better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 What are the chances this actually happens? In the NBA, you see stars want out and essentially force trades. We've seen uber elite players like Anthony Davis and James Harden (a few weeks ago) force their way out of town, but this doesn't happen too much in the NFL with a player of Watson's caliber. In the NBA, the player can pretty much do what they want and if a superstar is hellbent on getting trade, it'll happen. So with Watson's scenario, his importance to a franchise (him being a QB), and him being one of the best players at his position and still really young.... how likely is it that he is actually traded. And if he isn't traded and refuses to play, can both sides actually afford that to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 20 minutes ago, showtime said: What are the chances this actually happens? In the NBA, you see stars want out and essentially force trades. We've seen uber elite players like Anthony Davis and James Harden (a few weeks ago) force their way out of town, but this doesn't happen too much in the NFL with a player of Watson's caliber. In the NBA, the player can pretty much do what they want and if a superstar is hellbent on getting trade, it'll happen. So with Watson's scenario, his importance to a franchise (him being a QB), and him being one of the best players at his position and still really young.... how likely is it that he is actually traded. And if he isn't traded and refuses to play, can both sides actually afford that to happen? Houston met with Mac Jones at the senior bowl Houston needs to blow it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, showtime said: What are the chances this actually happens? In the NBA, you see stars want out and essentially force trades. We've seen uber elite players like Anthony Davis and James Harden (a few weeks ago) force their way out of town, but this doesn't happen too much in the NFL with a player of Watson's caliber. In the NBA, the player can pretty much do what they want and if a superstar is hellbent on getting trade, it'll happen. So with Watson's scenario, his importance to a franchise (him being a QB), and him being one of the best players at his position and still really young.... how likely is it that he is actually traded. And if he isn't traded and refuses to play, can both sides actually afford that to happen? I'm 98% positive he will be traded. At first I thought maybe it was just in the Texans best interests to keep him, but I don't think so anymore. 1. You will get a LOT of compensation in return, unless they drag this out until Week 1. And even then, they will still get a great return 2. What's the Texans upside this season? According to Spotrac, they are -6m in cap space. They don't have a pick until the 3rd round. They don't have the capital, whether you are talking about $$, players, or picks to get better unless they trade Watson. They could move on from Watt or Cooks, but that's still removing 2 effective players on a team that earned the #3 overall pick 3. LIS on the earlier pages... why even subject a first-year, first-time head coach to this kind of drama? Unless Watson flips the script completely on how he feels, Culley's gotta try and coach up a team who knows their QB doesn't want to play for them. Even with a fully bought in Watson, I'm not sure how good they will be this year. I'm not suggesting Watson would purposely underperform (he definitely wouldn't), but it won't help to have a QB who will probably be apathetic towards the teams success at that point. Texans are in the same position as the Rockets were. Sure, they could have held onto Harden, but they weren't a good team and all keeping him did was alienate everyone else around him. Watson won't go to the lengths that Harden did, but it's still a bad/average Texans team with a very disgruntled player who happens to be their QB and best player. It'll really hurt the locker-room even if Watson is well-liked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 If Watson tells management he will hold out, i just can't see them keeping him on the roster and calling his bluff. A top young QB actually holding out on his team (for fair business/ hiring practices and ethics) is terrible terrible PR for Houston, and make them an undesirable destination for some years (outside of big over pays). I think they move him for a good package, move on from Watt and start over with more picks. See if you can draft your next QB and line up your ducks under a new timeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 If Houston decides to blow it up they should create a bidding war between AZ and SF. In reality there’s maybe 5-6 teams that shouldn’t be interested... Cap hits if he’s traded: 21’ - $10.5m 22’ - $35m 23’ - $37m 24’ - $32m 25’ - $32m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny/Patrick Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Hou-Kittle,Jimmy G and a 2nd SF-Watson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 4 hours ago, Manny/Patrick said: Hou-Kittle,Jimmy G and a 2nd SF-Watson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 On 2/3/2021 at 2:44 PM, ET80 said: And I'd argue that you'd probably not get a first for either (Kelce is a maybe). And that's ignoring that Kelce is better. i'm not ignoring anything. i havent even said waller is worth a first. all i said was: 1) your point that "he's only been good in 2 of his 5 years" was somewhat meaningless 2) his age is to an extent offset by the lack of mileage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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