turtle28 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, ripsean21 said: I don’t agree. We’re a SB contender for two and those two years the team will be learning each other. After Two we will be in cap hell losing some of those players your willing to trade with no top picks in the meantime to fill other holes in those two years. Then when we gain those picks we will lose more players and start drafting for need. Yes Watson on our Roster right now makes us a legit contender. But we will be so top heavy resigning the guys we have to the depth guys will all go. Then you have to start replacing not just the depth guys but the key guys. So yes we resign Terry and Chase. But we lose Payne and maybe Tez but if we don’t lose tez we lose half the names you mentioned. And we look just like the Texans in 4 years and guess what. Then you have to give Watson another mega deal and that’s assuming he doesn’t get hurt and put us in another Alex situation because I have no idea what his injury guarantees are. But I do know his cap hit after this year goes to a insane level. So the move will sell plenty of jerseys and have us loving Ron and the fools gold of a Two year exciting window. But we are losing the guy who could maybe keep finding mid to late round gems to supplement the losses of the guys we’re gonna lose. So we again are screwed. While yes I’ll be elated having my favorite college QB ever on my favorite team if we don’t win the SB in 22 or 23 we’re slowly going back down. Yes it’s a one year game in reality. But it’s a mistake. If we win it all it isn’t and we all will love and praise Ron and it’s all mute. But we could have all of that making a move for the right rookie QB without losing most those picks and without losing most of those names and be a juggernaut for the next 8 realistically without sacrificing the losses and depth So what I’m gathering is you don’t want to acquire a top 5 QB. I mean at some point we’re going to have to pay a good or Great QB to play for us. If we aren’t it means we still have a bunch of duds and are mediocre hanging around .500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Just now, turtle28 said: So what I’m gathering is you don’t want to acquire a top 5 QB. I mean at some point we’re going to have to pay a good or Great QB to play for us. If we aren’t it means we still have a bunch of duds and are mediocre hanging around .500 It’s not that I don’t want a top 5 QB but the teams that have one outside of Tampa drafted theirs. They all got that first window they all build the Corp of their teams through the draft. And they all got the luxuary of developing them cheaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) Basically it’s not Watson it could be Mahomes it could be any of the names out there. Having that guy yes you have a chance you always see that but how many times do they ever win without a legit roster around them? ive seen great teams get close with duds ive seen great QB’s get close with duds around them. But to actually win you need a legit top 10 and a talented roster. To win multiples you need a top 5 and a talented roster. But without the roster your not going to win it no matter who it is thats why Watson doesn’t have one already Edited January 23, 2021 by ripsean21 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ripsean21 said: Basically it’s not Watson it could be Mahomes it could be any of the names out there. Having that guy yes you have a chance you always see that but how many times do they ever win without a legit roster around them? ive seen great teams get close with duds ive seen great QB’s get close with duds around them. But to actually win you need a legit top 10 and a talented roster. To win multiples you need a top 5 and a talented roster. But without the roster your not going to win it no matter who it is thats why Watson doesn’t have one Edited January 23, 2021 by ARTMONK HOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, ripsean21 said: Basically it’s not Watson it could be Mahomes it could be any of the names out there. Having that guy yes you have a chance you always see that but how many times do they ever win without a legit roster around them? ive seen great teams get close with duds ive seen great QB’s get close with duds around them. But to actually win you need a legit top 10 and a talented roster. To win multiples you need a top 5 and a talented roster. But without the roster your not going to win it no matter who it is thats why Watson doesn’t have one already Yep. Just look at Watson this year. He truly played lights out = 4-12 This trade would be like our trade for RG3 plus 20 million a year in cap hit. It cripples the team. In fact I would suggest that the only way a team can succeed that has a QB they are paying in this new 40+million tier is to draft well. So therefore, you can't give up all your draft picks and pay someone like this. We also have to remember that Watson has had some major injuries already. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, offbyone said: Yep. Just look at Watson this year. He truly played lights out = 4-12 This trade would be like our trade for RG3 plus 20 million a year in cap hit. It cripples the team. In fact I would suggest that the only way a team can succeed that has a QB they are paying in this new 40+million tier is to draft well. So therefore, you can't give up all your draft picks and pay someone like this. We also have to remember that Watson has had some major injuries already. Well we should draft well we got the mid late round killer in Kyle Smith🤔🤔🤔 OH wait 😂😂😂and that’s what I was saying not only do you have to knock the drafts out the park but your going to give up players and 2 years worth of draft picks. So in your two year window with Watson where you could compete because his cap you have no instant impact round picks to upgrade. Then your also letting depth players walk each year because you can’t afford them and we will start losing all the key players because of Watsons hit. This sounds like a sure fire winner right here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, ripsean21 said: It’s not that I don’t want a top 5 QB but the teams that have one outside of Tampa drafted theirs. They all got that first window they all build the Corp of their teams through the draft. And they all got the luxuary of developing them cheaper Yes and well either have to trade up for one, get lucky if one drops or have to have an awful season to get that high in the draft and this was the year to do that but, Haskins was benched bc he wasn’t acting like a pro, Kyle Allen then broke his ankle & Alex came in solidified the team our D got great the second half of the year and now we’re picking 19, so it’s not likely we find that dude this year but I guess it’s still possible just a longer shot than if we had the top 5 picks still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, offbyone said: Yep. Just look at Watson this year. He truly played lights out = 4-12 This trade would be like our trade for RG3 plus 20 million a year in cap hit. It cripples the team. In fact I would suggest that the only way a team can succeed that has a QB they are paying in this new 40+million tier is to draft well. So therefore, you can't give up all your draft picks and pay someone like this. We also have to remember that Watson has had some major injuries already. They had 4 or 5 starters on defense that were lost for the year with injuries including McKinney their starting MLB & signal caller. Their RT went out for the year too and Will Fuller got suspended for PEDs. Like I said with Kirk for 3 years, your Qb can play good or great but if those around him aren’t then the team will still lose. The Texans D was ravaged with injuries & run game didn’t pick up the slack to help control the clock and then you go 4-12 despite having the QB who threw for the most yards in the NFL. Edited January 23, 2021 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, ripsean21 said: Well we should draft well we got the mid late round killer in Kyle Smith🤔🤔🤔 OH wait 😂😂😂and that’s what I was saying not only do you have to knock the drafts out the park but your going to give up players and 2 years worth of draft picks. So in your two year window with Watson where you could compete because his cap you have no instant impact round picks to upgrade. Then your also letting depth players walk each year because you can’t afford them and we will start losing all the key players because of Watsons hit. This sounds like a sure fire winner right here It’s not like Mayhew never hit on mid round picks, but most of his hits were earlier picks & he signed good free agents so those mid round picks usually became back ups. Kyke Van Noy was a damn good pick so was DeAndre Leavy and some of their OL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Yes and well either have to trade up for one, get lucky if one drops or have to have an awful season to get that high in the draft and this was the year to do that but, Haskins was benched bc he wasn’t acting like a pro, Kyle Allen then broke his ankle & Alex came in solidified the team our D got great the second half of the year and now we’re picking 19, so it’s not likely we find that dude this year but I guess it’s still possible just a longer shot than if we had the top 5 picks still. Trading up will cost a lot less then DWats. But we don’t have to solve it that spot this year. We’re just going to fill that spot however possible because our coach isn’t worried about 3 years from now he’s worried about now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 minute ago, turtle28 said: It’s not like Mayhew never hit on mid round picks, but most of his hits were earlier picks & he signed good free agents so those mid round picks usually became back ups. Kyke Van Noy was a damn good pick so was DeAndre Leavy and some of their OL. Trust me bud Mayhew isn’t my issue. I personally love his story and the fact he was apart of actually helping Detroit compete for a brief moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, ripsean21 said: Trading up will cost a lot less then DWats. But we don’t have to solve it that spot this year. We’re just going to fill that spot however possible because our coach isn’t worried about 3 years from now he’s worried about now Agreed, if we can jump up I’d do it if Fields falls let’s say. Or we could stay out and take Lance or Jones at 19. Honestly I’m ok with any of it. I’m cool with trading for a vet as long as it’s not going to ravage too many assets and there’s no way I trade Chase or Terry. I’m cool with signing a FA QB too who may be better than what we have but not too much above average and I also see some value in just bringing back the same 3 we ended the season with last year but if I’m Ron I’d like to see Alex take a pay cut and I’d couch it as, “Alex, if you do this that’s a FA or 2 we can sign to make our team more complete so we can repeat as division champs.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Agreed, if we can jump up I’d do it if Fields falls let’s say. Or we could stay out and take Lance or Jones at 19. Honestly I’m ok with any of it. I’m cool with trading for a vet as long as it’s not going to ravage too many assets and there’s no way I trade Chase or Terry. I’m cool with signing a FA QB too who may be better than what we have but not too much above average and I also see some value in just bringing back the same 3 we ended the season with last year but if I’m Ron I’d like to see Alex take a pay cut and I’d couch it as, “Alex, if you do this that’s a FA or 2 we can sign to make our team more complete so we can repeat as division champs.” You know in Ace’s thread I mentioned a trade up for Fields. I do think that’s a solid and realistic possibility. The guy fits and he’s tough. He grew on me a lot this year which is why I’m glad he played. Yes he started slow but he doesn’t have a ton of weapons but he made some amazing throws in the playoffs and he was hurt. He does need to learn to protect himself in situations because we need guys for more then 12 weeks. But I just think there’s 4 guys in this class that fit that could end up in a trade up range 1 could fall and one is a mid round guy I hope we draft either way. I just think these possibilities give us the best chance to grow this roster moving forward. I just think this is the wrong offseason to trade for a vet with all the different types of guys coming into this draft. There’s too much value in the draft to bankroll a trade for a vet but I think Fields has a ton of talent and a ton of room to grow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 hours ago, ripsean21 said: Trading up will cost a lot less then DWats. But we don’t have to solve it that spot this year. We’re just going to fill that spot however possible because our coach isn’t worried about 3 years from now he’s worried about now Who’s DWats? The guard from Ohio State you mean, Wyatt Davis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Who’s DWats? The guard from Ohio State you mean, Wyatt Davis? Watson lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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