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8 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I think the Texans will ask for Chase Yooung and picks. I’m not talking about fair compensation, I’m talking about what the Texans would want, not what other teams want to give up bc remember the Texans have Watson under contract, they don’t have to trade him.

I respect it, and I have absolutely found you one of the fans from another fan base that I have always been able to have good debates with.

I am asking you, what would you be willing to offer up and want in return, that you consider a TRULY honest offer? Maybe I am overvaluing the level of Franchise QB he is. I do have multiple level of Franchise QB, for the top 3 Franchise QB's I dont think there is an actual price for them....for instance I consider both Deshaun Watson and Pat Maholmes BOTH Franchise QB's. There is NO price for Pat Maholmes period.

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I think it would be smarter, to sign Taylor Heinicke to a modest 3 or 4 year deal.

Sign a reasonably cheap vet, to back him up. Like a fitzpatrick, or so.

Then draft a very late Rd QB (or undrafted), to compete with Kyle Allen & Steven Montez.

Then pour all our resources, into the Offense. Like Tampa Bay did this last year.

I'm talking draft a top wr in 1st or 2nd Rd & sign a top FA WR.

Continue upgrading O-line.

Look for TE to pair with Logan Thomas.

And maybe even find another RB, that fits what we want to do.

Do this & I guarantee we challenge for the NFC East again.

On Defense...look to upgrading LBers including moving Landon Collins there. Maybe see what kind of CB's we could add.

Other than that...leave the Defense alone.

THAT, is what I would do.

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1 hour ago, DaWg_LB. said:

I respect where your coming from, and I respect it. At the same time, what is the price on a 26 year old QB who just led the league in passing, AFTER they trade his only true #1 WR? That is the #1 valued commodity in the NFL today, possibly in all of sports period.

And as far as the compensation, I am confused on my request for potential compensation, you say 5 first round picks? The 1rst this year, the 1rst in 2022 and Montez Sweat...that's only 3.....I am assuming your saying Terry McClaurin is worth a 1rst (which is debatable, seeing what Hopkins went for, coupled with the Free Agent crop of WR and what's coming out in the Draft), so where do I ask for 5 first round picks? (or did you add up the 2's and 3? just trying to find the math).

This is how I was doing the math:

2021 1st = 1 1st

Montez Sweat = first round value = 2 1sts

Terry McLaurin = first round value = 3 1sts

2021 2nd + 2022 2nd + 2022 3rd = first round value = 4 1sts

And then you’ve got the 2023 1st rounder, which I think different folks would value differently. But it has some value, obviously, so to me the overall value of the package is somewhere between 4 and 5 current 1st round picks. 

As for McLaurin, reasonable minds can differ as to value I guess — but if 1.5 seasons of Amari Cooper at over $14M brings back a 1st, I would have to think 2 full seasons of Terry McLaurin at less than $2M would do the same. I think we’ll continue to see that the Hopkins trade was an aberration, as we already have with the Diggs trade for example. Your point about the number of WRs available in FA is a good one, but I’d counter with cost control being more valuable than ever in a season where the cap will likely shrink substantially. I can’t imagine that a team like the Ravens wouldn’t trade their late 1st for a proven young star WR they can pay pennies. 

Edited by e16bball
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1 hour ago, DaWg_LB. said:

That was my exact response when I saw some of the offers for Watson in this thread.....

It doesn’t matter. People thinking the Texans are going to get 4 first round picks and two really good players in exchange are kidding themselves. I’d be willing to bet come draft day he’s a dolphin for their two first round picks and maybe a second plus Tua. People can come up with all these crazy trade scenarios but somebody has to be willing to pay it and if you do as a GM and it doesn’t pan out it’s career suicide. 

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2 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

It doesn’t matter. People thinking the Texans are going to get 4 first round picks and two really good players in exchange are kidding themselves. I’d be willing to bet come draft day he’s a dolphin for their two first round picks and maybe a second plus Tua. People can come up with all these crazy trade scenarios but somebody has to be willing to pay it and if you do as a GM and it doesn’t pan out it’s career suicide. 

I respect your response, as hopefully as I am that you respect, attempting to pry a 26 year old Franchise QB away from a team, takes a Franchise ALTERING trade, and not just seeing "What's the least amount I want to give up" as not to upset my own franchise direction. And thinking of trading less than the equivalent of 3.5 to 4.5 first round picks in total Value is a waste of time for both parties involved.

IF it takes Multiple first round picks worth of Value to be in position to even draft (crap shoot) one of the top 2 prospects coming out (most years), then why do you think it would be less to get an Established Franchise QB who JUST led the league in passing....

Not arguing with you, or attempting to invalidate your thinking.

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47 minutes ago, e16bball said:

This is how I was doing the math:

2021 1st = 1 1st

Montez Sweat = first round value = 2 1sts

Terry McLaurin = first round value = 3 1sts

2021 2nd + 2022 2nd + 2022 3rd = first round value = 4 1sts

And then you’ve got the 2023 1st rounder, which I think different folks would value differently. But it has some value, obviously, so to me the overall value of the package is somewhere between 4 and 5 current 1st round picks. 

As for McLaurin, reasonable minds can differ as to value I guess — but if 1.5 seasons of Amari Cooper at over $14M brings back a 1st, I would have to think 2 full seasons of Terry McLaurin at less than $2M would do the same. I think we’ll continue to see that the Hopkins trade was an aberration, as we already have with the Diggs trade for example. Your point about the number of WRs available in FA is a good one, but I’d counter with cost control being more valuable than ever in a season where the cap will likely shrink substantially. I can’t imagine that a team like the Ravens wouldn’t trade their late 1st for a proven young star WR they can pay pennies. 

I accept and respect your Math...I see where you can say 4-5 first round picks Valuing the players on the WFT the way you do, I understand that. I would debate the value placed on them vs. the acquisition cost is playing into your valuation as well as I would also offer there is a shade of "He's the best we got"...as I Browns fan I had to learn to embrace that just because he's the best we got, dosent make him Good or Extremely Valuable, its just the "Best we Got". I like Sweat, but he has yet to post a double digit sack season...not saying he's not a good player, but I dont know if someone would give up a 1rst round pick for an 8 sack a year guy......and the Value on Cooper, I would offer, Cooper was a much more highly touted WR coming into the league (perceived value), and had a much stronger start to his career, and Stephon Diggs was an established WR already with multiple 1000 yards seasons on top of 100+ catch season when he got traded so he was worth the first IMO. Mclarin is good....but from the outside looking in, he's not in the same class as those two mentioned are just yet....on his way....I will agree with that.....but then I would offer how many NFL players have been "On their way their" only to some something derail their career (RGIII for example).

But I just to reiterate, I respect your argument. And our conflict may be coming from the Valuation of the proposed non direct draft pick pieces of the trade.

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2 hours ago, DaWg_LB. said:

No I am not asking for any type of makup trade. I am simply stating what I think the price for a 26year old Franchise QB under contract for 4 more years, who just led the league in passing after his top WR got traded away, and had no running game. So Yes, I think he is worth more than Ionidis and 4th 🙂. With the conversations that I have had with local Redskins fans (I know that Chad Dukes got put off the air and Grant and Danny just took over the evening drive now), I think that almost the opposite has taken place, the RGIII trade left such deep scars, that all the trades that my boy's have run through me to get my opinion have all started WOEFULLY low. I respect that, trust me as a Browns fan, I understand giving up too many draft picks in a bad trade....but trading a couple of your Depth players and a 2nd and 4th to get a Proven Young Franchise QB (who's not even in his Prime yet) that just led the league in passing, in my opinion is the #1 commodity to try and acquire in the NFL. 

Just my humble opinion, attempting to bring some outside opinion that it takes more than 1 first round pick and a couple of "Throw in" pieces to get Franchise QB.

And I understand where your at with your opinion but we’re not talking about Mahomes with 0 knee reconstructions. I know what Watson is as a passer but yes the NFL’s leading passer means squat on a 4 win team who if you take Watson off looks almost exactly like the 2013 Washington franchise. Picking in the top 3 new coaching staff to come a QB that’s disgruntled while he is a top tier QB he is legit one cut in practice away from maybe resembling 2013 RG. And their about to lose more talent in FA they have bad contracts Watson’s cap figures are about to go through the roof next year and honestly Houston Reguardless of how bad the Hopkins trade was I think this state of their roster was just accelerated a year or two because the trade. 

What we gave For RG should be the floor essentially of what they’d ask for. And I think any sensible GM and Coach that doesn’t have a SB caliber roster except at that one position which I can’t think of any would want to make this move. Now a team like Miami or Jacksonville with picks with cap with young bright talent maybe. But Houston isn’t trading him to Jax. You could say the Raiders because Grudens love for Vets and I’m sure he love Watson but getting Mayock to go agree minus both their jobs being on the line due to not competing for the division again I just don’t know who gives up the juice to make Houston say okay. I don’t doubt your compensation and I very much respect what you proposed. I’m just saying that I hope Dan Snyder didn’t read it and get excited because that’s the only way we’d be dumb enough he and Bruce up their like ayyyyyeee. Like I said I know my offer that would be okay for me is low my max would be 2-1’s and Johnathan Allen and a 2. But if they said okay I don’t think I could pull that trigger knowing we’re going to be in cap hell with the escalating cap hit on his remaining years when we’d need to resign Sweat Terry Chase and co. It’s just not the business this team should get back into we’ve come along way from that.

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On 1/21/2021 at 7:16 PM, turtle28 said:

The Wire Reaction GIF

I’m just going to leave this here because I think this is the most likely addition for this team especially after these moves. Ron is clearly in Win Now. So here is the package I’m going to put together because realistically I think this is what we’re chasing. We are going to offer

2020- pick 19 and 3rd

2021- 1st- and 2nd

Johnathan Allen Landon Collins 

for Watson and a 2020 4th

that isn’t something I’d do but I think that’s about what it’s going to cost. There’s no way I’d give those picks. Sweat chase Payne Curl and Fuller and Terry and Gibson are off limits. I don’t think they want any of our OL as Moses is older Brandon will be in our future plans and we’re just not going to offer up what we need to protect Desean. Your not going to get rid of your edge guys you can’t because you need those to make a run. And Payne is our best player all around and Curl is a better fit then Collins IMO. It’s too much but I don’t see no way we get a deal they don’t have Bill there anymore

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49 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

I’ve mentioned before I want Payne here for his career. Do not want him involved in ANY trade. No problem trading J Allen. As you see my avatar, I love this player. 

He’s our best player on defense. Maybe that ends next year in Tez’s 3rd year. Or because Chase is seriously amazing. But Payne is the reason QB’s have to bail through gaps with our edge guys combine and can’t step up. Payne doesn’t miss time and trust me he is the tone setter. You are 100% right!!! Losing Payne you lose the toughness identity that we finally started to show outside of him. He has to be the mainstay for our interior. He was the right pick he was everything guys like me you Knight and others were pounding his name so hard for in his class. While to me I still thought moving up for Watson was what we should have done Payne was the player we needed the most since a Bruce Allen FO wasn’t going to make a trade to get Watson because they still thought they could reup Kirk and then heck we could always trade for Alex. But now it seems more and more likely we’re going to make that Watson trade anyways. Just 5 years too late

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On 1/12/2021 at 3:08 PM, DaWg_LB. said:

I respect it, and I have absolutely found you one of the fans from another fan base that I have always been able to have good debates with.

I am asking you, what would you be willing to offer up and want in return, that you consider a TRULY honest offer? Maybe I am overvaluing the level of Franchise QB he is. I do have multiple level of Franchise QB, for the top 3 Franchise QB's I dont think there is an actual price for them....for instance I consider both Deshaun Watson and Pat Maholmes BOTH Franchise QB's. There is NO price for Pat Maholmes period.

I think the Texans are going to want in return a pro bowl level player or the other teams starting QB if they’re a good starter two firsts, at least one 2nd and maybe some other picks too.

In the end they’re probably not going to get a totally fair trade but they’ll get a haul of a few first round picks I believe some other picks & the other teams starting QB.

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2 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

I’m just going to leave this here because I think this is the most likely addition for this team especially after these moves. Ron is clearly in Win Now. So here is the package I’m going to put together because realistically I think this is what we’re chasing. We are going to offer

2020- pick 19 and 3rd

2021- 1st- and 2nd

Johnathan Allen Landon Collins 

for Watson and a 2020 4th

that isn’t something I’d do but I think that’s about what it’s going to cost. There’s no way I’d give those picks. Sweat chase Payne Curl and Fuller and Terry and Gibson are off limits. I don’t think they want any of our OL as Moses is older Brandon will be in our future plans and we’re just not going to offer up what we need to protect Desean. Your not going to get rid of your edge guys you can’t because you need those to make a run. And Payne is our best player all around and Curl is a better fit then Collins IMO. It’s too much but I don’t see no way we get a deal they don’t have Bill there anymore

I’d do that in a heart beat. We’re instantly a Super Bowl contender & will be for 10-15 years or as long as Watson plays.

I’d trade one of Gibson, Payne, Jon Allen, Matt Ioannidis, Curl, Settle or Sweat in a heart beat if it means we’re getting back DeShaun Watson in return.

I wouldn’t trade Terry or Chase Young but those are the only 2 untouchables IMO.

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11 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I’d do that in a heart beat. We’re instantly a Super Bowl contender & will be for 10-15 years or as long as Watson plays.

I’d trade one of Gibson, Payne, Jon Allen, Matt Ioannidis, Curl, Settle or Sweat in a heart beat if it means we’re getting back DeShaun Watson in return.

I wouldn’t trade Terry or Chase Young but those are the only 2 untouchables IMO.

I don’t agree. We’re a SB contender for two and those two years the team will be learning each other. After Two we will be in cap hell losing some of those players your willing to trade with no top picks in the meantime to fill other holes in those two years. Then when we gain those picks we will lose more players and start drafting for need. Yes Watson on our Roster right now makes us a legit contender. But we will be so top heavy resigning the guys we have to the depth guys will all go. Then you have to start replacing not just the depth guys but the key guys. So yes we resign Terry and Chase. But we lose Payne and maybe Tez but if we don’t lose tez we lose half the names you mentioned. And we look just like the Texans in 4 years and guess what. Then you have to give Watson another mega deal and that’s assuming he doesn’t get hurt and put us in another Alex situation because I have no idea what his injury guarantees are. But I do know his cap hit after this year goes to a insane level. So the move will sell plenty of jerseys and have us loving Ron and the fools gold of a Two year exciting window. But we are losing the guy who could maybe keep finding mid to late round gems to supplement the losses of the guys we’re gonna lose. So we again are screwed. While yes I’ll be elated having my favorite college QB ever on my favorite team if we don’t win the SB in 22 or 23 we’re slowly going back down. Yes it’s a one year game in reality. But it’s a mistake. If we win it all it isn’t and we all will love and praise Ron and it’s all mute. But we could have all of that making a move for the right rookie QB without losing most those picks and without losing most of those names and be a juggernaut for the next 8 realistically without sacrificing the losses and depth

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@aceinthehouse Heinicke is a restricted free agent. We can tender him at a 2nd round pick & then he signs his one year deal and I think makes $4 million.

I don’t see any reason to give him anything more, he did play well but we can’t get bogged down in a bad contract before the guy has proven himself over the course of a season.

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