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Which punt was worse


Which was worse?  

41 members have voted

  1. 1. Which was worse?

    • Vrabel
      19
    • Tomlin
      22


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https://imgur.com/a/Yk1N82p

These are the drives of the third quarter.

Cleveland punts after 7 plays in 3:53

Steelers Score a TD in 8 plays in 3:45

Cleveland Punts after 3 plays in 1:00

Steelers Score a TD after 12 plays in 3:25 Score is 35-23

Cleveland punts  after 3 plays in 1:27.

Then the Steelers go 9 yards in 3 plays at their own 37. They are down 12. The fourth quarter has just started. If they fail a 4th down, the Browns can  go up 15 instantly. Their Defense has been stopping the browns easy in the second half. The defense that has been one of the best in the league for 2 years in a row. The defense that has forced 3 straight punts in under 4 minutes each.

 

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7 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I think Tomlin.  If for no other reason than the Titans still had a chance as long as they kept the Ravens from scoring a touchdown.  The Steelers were down two scores, and the clock was working against them.  Even if they held the Browns to a 3 and out, the Steelers would have needed 2 TDs in the 4th to win the game.

 

7 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I want to say Vrabel, but man YOU WERE DOWN BY 12. YOU HAD NOTHING TO LOSE, and still Tomlin chose to punt. Just ridiculous.

 

7 hours ago, Malfatron said:

tomlin easily.

down by multiple scores in the 4th q and a4th and 1. and with momentum

See above post.

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4 hours ago, TXsteeler said:

https://imgur.com/a/Yk1N82p

These are the drives of the third quarter.

Cleveland punts after 7 plays in 3:53

Steelers Score a TD in 8 plays in 3:45

Cleveland Punts after 3 plays in 1:00

Steelers Score a TD after 12 plays in 3:25 Score is 35-23

Cleveland punts  after 3 plays in 1:27.

Then the Steelers go 9 yards in 3 plays at their own 37. They are down 12. The fourth quarter has just started. If they fail a 4th down, the Browns can  go up 15 instantly. Their Defense has been stopping the browns easy in the second half. The defense that has been one of the best in the league for 2 years in a row. The defense that has forced 3 straight punts in under 4 minutes each.

 

Yeah part of this is why both are frustrating for me. That punt by Pittsburgh killed ALL of their momentum they were building. But, same thing for TEN. Like, it's so hard for me to decide which one was worse because they were both so, so bad.

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6 minutes ago, JDD said:

Well according to surrender index it was Vrabal and it wasn't close

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this kind of ignores the context though of what was happening in the PIT game up to the point of the punt. Like the other guy said, PIT had just forced 3 straight 3-and-outs from Cleveland and scored on each subsequent drive. They had all momentum, were only down 12, and then chose to punt. After this punt, Cleveland scored and the blowout only continued.

hard to factor that into the surrender index, but man if that's not surrendering, idk what is.

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Both are fireable offenses IMO - but Vrabel's was much, much worse

Titans were ALREADY 60% of the way to the EZ. 4th and 2 is a very reasonable bar to cross. The payoff of a successful punt is fairly minimal, the risk of failing on the the attempt is fairly minimal, and the payout of converting the 4th down is MASSIVE

Tomlin's was bad too though, specifically because they were down 2 TDs. If you punt, you don't even know that you will get 2 more drives, you really don't. If you give up points on the subsequent drive, you surely cannot have confidence that you will get 3 more drives. Pittsburgh also had ALL the momentum in this instance and should have capitalized on it.

 

In both these cases you are gambling not only that your defense can get a stop, but also that your offense can gain enough yardage to get the score that you are forgoing the immediate opportunity to attempt. That gamble is a MUCH lower likelihood of payoff than the gamble of going for it on 4th and short.

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6 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I think this kind of ignores the context though of what was happening in the PIT game up to the point of the punt. Like the other guy said, PIT had just forced 3 straight 3-and-outs from Cleveland and scored on each subsequent drive. They had all momentum, were only down 12, and then chose to punt. After this punt, Cleveland scored and the blowout only continued.

hard to factor that into the surrender index, but man if that's not surrendering, idk what is.

I am not in ANY way arguing that Tomlin's decision wasn't bad. It was. It was really awful.

But Vrabel's was worse. It was a low risk, high reward situation and he chose a much riskier path, with a much lower reward

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13 hours ago, bigbadbuff said:

Gutless punts within hours of today. I didn’t think Vrabel could’ve topped, but Tomlin had other ideas. Which was worse?

Vrabel punts 4th&2 @BAL 40 down 4 in the 4th

Tomlin punts 4th&1 @PIT 45 down 12 in the 4th

In a vacuum, Tennessee since it was BARELY out of FG range and if you turn it over on downs, you aren't in terrible shape, with less time left and a chance to take a lied/cut into the lead. If they convert there, good chance that they end up in FG range at the very least.

You can at least make the argument that the Browns sputtered (3 punts) and that Pitt made some adjustments to give themselves a chance...granted, the Browns are HISTORICALLY BAD on 3rd and 4th down conversions allowed (worst in 30+ years, literally) and you had all the momentum. If you fail, you get your defense arguably more amped up and can say "We believe in you guys, that's why we did it!".

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2 minutes ago, Coffee & Contemplation said:

Any punt is a cowardly punt, you always go for it on 4th, no matter what. If your successes don't outweigh your losses then you weren't going to win anyway.

It always works in Madden.

your post is obviously in jest, but it is closer to the truth than the conventional wisdom of the NFL in regards to punts

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1 minute ago, Tk3 said:

your post is obviously in jest, but it is closer to the truth than the conventional wisdom of the NFL in regards to punts

Yeah, I say it tongue in cheek, but I also mostly agree with the idea. I wouldn't seriously say any punt is cowardly. But I'd say never punt as long as you're at least at or past your own 40.

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1 hour ago, Tk3 said:

your post is obviously in jest, but it is closer to the truth than the conventional wisdom of the NFL in regards to punts

Yeah, when you start viewing it as in:

Would I be better off with a 60% chance of conversion on X Team's 45, or having a 100% chance of giving this team another possession for free...likely around the 20 yard line.

To me, it's always been kind of a no brainer.

Granted, this is my mindset as a HS football coach, so the kicking game doesn't factor in nearly as much...but still. 

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The announcers didn't even question the punt in the Titans game. That was the most absurd aspect. Steve Levy said here's the punt then described it. At least Collinsworth condemned the decision while Al Michaels predictably leaned toward it being correct.

So many things have to go right if you surrender the ball. Somehow the coaches and many analysts don't grasp the burden. It's like hitting a parlay as opposed to merely hitting the straight bet of converting a first down. 

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