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Spinning Tires: Steelers 2021 Offseason and Beyond...


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10 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

So, I didn't particularly care about the Bush story, and still don't much. But it is a bit curious that a guy who barely made a ripple for two years suddenly started popping off on Twitter - today claiming that the team fined him for his recent Tweets (I'm doubting that actually happened). I mean, what the hell has gotten into him?

hoping its a case of young 20 something dude getting his trolling on

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58 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Training camp can't get here fast enough. We need something to talk about other than the twitter drama of a couple 23 year olds lol

for real

ESPN morning show just ran it 87th "are the steelers doomed in 2021 and is Ben done?" segment today

Edited by August4th
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the summer NFL drought has been bearable for me though. NBA finals still going on/still have NBA FA/draft coming up. MLB draft/trade deadline has interest for me due to my sorry Pirates having the number 1 smh also helps the steelers will play in the 1st game back..also have the Olympics to look forward too

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21 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Training camp can't get here fast enough. We need something to talk about other than the twitter drama of a couple 23 year olds lol

Yessssss. NFL Pods are starting to heat up again and I am already sick of a lot of the narratives. 

I'm waiting for someone to step up to the plate and mention that while Baker Mayfields run from weeks 7 through the 17 was solid.... he played 1 team inside the top half of DVOA and managed to play defenses 27, 28, 29, 30, and 31 during that time -- all while struggling to win some of those games. 

Baker Mayfield weeks 7 through 16: Played tremendously! Big time player. Getting better and better! Great wins! Top 10 guy!

Steelers weeks 1 - 12: Fake. Bad team. Made up numbers. Flexed on worse opponents. 

I get it from a narrative standpoint for clicks and views, but man is it getting old acting like division teams don't play the same opponents....

I was having a discussion with a Browns fan about this and their response was "Did you see the Titans game!?" I just kinda blinked at him.... I mean, yeah....the 4th worst passing defense in the league is probably a solid gauge for how good a QB is. 

Im not even really trying to knock Baker, I thought he did play well (though, Im far more afraid of Stefanski than I am Baker -- so please, pay him $35M per). Im just so tired of the Steelers schedule last year being a knocking narrative while teams like the Browns get the praise of winning against those same opponents. 

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3 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Yessssss. NFL Pods are starting to heat up again and I am already sick of a lot of the narratives. 

I'm waiting for someone to step up to the plate and mention that while Baker Mayfields run from weeks 7 through the 17 was solid.... he played 1 team inside the top half of DVOA and managed to play defenses 27, 28, 29, 30, and 31 during that time -- all while struggling to win some of those games. 

Baker Mayfield weeks 7 through 16: Played tremendously! Big time player. Getting better and better! Great wins! Top 10 guy!

Steelers weeks 1 - 12: Fake. Bad team. Made up numbers. Flexed on worse opponents. 

I get it from a narrative standpoint for clicks and views, but man is it getting old acting like division teams don't play the same opponents....

I was having a discussion with a Browns fan about this and their response was "Did you see the Titans game!?" I just kinda blinked at him.... I mean, yeah....the 4th worst passing defense in the league is probably a solid gauge for how good a QB is. 

Im not even really trying to knock Baker, I thought he did play well (though, Im far more afraid of Stefanski than I am Baker -- so please, pay him $35M per). Im just so tired of the Steelers schedule last year being a knocking narrative while teams like the Browns get the praise of winning against those same opponents. 

Yeah....the hype train for the Browns is way overblown.    They are in a better position than we are, but Im far from sold on them being legit contenders.   If Baker shows up all year and some other pieces come together...sure, they could be a real threat.   But as you stated, Baker has yet to prove he is truly a franchise QB.   Its embarrassing that Baker is getting more respect in many cases than Lamar Jackson.   I get that there are some questions surrounding Lamars ability in high stakes games....but Baker has proven far less at this point.

Im still not sold the Browns are even DEFINITELY better than us yet.   We collapsed late in the season and our OL and CBs look disastrous right now...but the Browns still have ALOT to prove.

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On 7/9/2021 at 1:05 PM, Dcash4 said:

Yessssss. NFL Pods are starting to heat up again and I am already sick of a lot of the narratives. 

I'm waiting for someone to step up to the plate and mention that while Baker Mayfields run from weeks 7 through the 17 was solid.... he played 1 team inside the top half of DVOA and managed to play defenses 27, 28, 29, 30, and 31 during that time -- all while struggling to win some of those games. 

Baker Mayfield weeks 7 through 16: Played tremendously! Big time player. Getting better and better! Great wins! Top 10 guy!

Steelers weeks 1 - 12: Fake. Bad team. Made up numbers. Flexed on worse opponents. 

I get it from a narrative standpoint for clicks and views, but man is it getting old acting like division teams don't play the same opponents....

I was having a discussion with a Browns fan about this and their response was "Did you see the Titans game!?" I just kinda blinked at him.... I mean, yeah....the 4th worst passing defense in the league is probably a solid gauge for how good a QB is. 

Im not even really trying to knock Baker, I thought he did play well (though, Im far more afraid of Stefanski than I am Baker -- so please, pay him $35M per). Im just so tired of the Steelers schedule last year being a knocking narrative while teams like the Browns get the praise of winning against those same opponents. 

I get these frustrations with it, and I've gone through some of the extra things that play into why these talking points are what they are.

I think something some don't realize that the talking heads are mainly just people who can talk well and look good on TV.  Honestly that's what it is.  The people that matter most are the researchers who put the data in front of these people talking on TV/Radio.  They are the smart people.

Yes it was frustrating to hear about the Browns non stop when they were playing a worse schedule, and how good everyone was playing; yet early in the season all you heard was how much the Steelers were overrated.  But at that, all those talking points about the Steelers annoyed us they ended up being true.  They said our run game looked better than it was because of having leads, and it turned out our running game was trash.  They said that our short passing system wasn't sustainable because it relied on good timing and WR's breaking tackles; and it turned out when teams caught on it was easy to stop.  Our defense was overrated because of the big plays given up was going to open up our defense being nickeled and dimed; and late in the season we couldn't buy a stop because they were protecting against the big play.

I'll just mention it, and I know you know this, but I despise things like DOVA because it's all stat based in quite possibly the biggest team sport there is.  In the stats Ben, Baker, Lamar, and Burrow all get credited the same on a 40 yard TD pass.  But I would challenge to look at the tape because which would be the most impressive:

Ben throwing a 5 yard slant to Diontae Johnson, gets tipped, DJ fights to get it, breaks 4 tackles running 35 yards with the ball for a TD.

Baker takes a roll out, pumps on the short route to get the safety to jump, throws to the back corner of the end zone, where Landry tracks it with 1 yard of separation for the over the shoulder catch.

Lamar runs RPO, ducks to run, pulls back, hits Andrews over the middle 25 yards deep, with 10 yards of separation, who goes untouched for the TD.

Burrow stands in the pocket, no play action or roll out.  Looks off the safety, throws an outside shoulder/back shoulder pass to Boyd who's running a corner to the far goal line pileon, making a good catch on a precise throw with good coverage.

Objectively, Ben's throw was the worse.  Could have been an INT, lucky to not be INC, and relied the most on the WR play to score.  Lamars is the next least impressive because the pass catcher was wide open and low risk of bad outcome.  Baker and Burrow's plays are up there, with Bakers being second best.  He used his pump to move the S, yet the WR still created some separation.  Then there's Burrows because it was a dime pass on a spot to a covered guy where only his guy could catch it.

Yet to DOVA, on the same defense, even the same defender, these are all 40 yard TD passes and that's all that matters to it.

As much as I want to knock talking heads for what they said at the time, they were right.

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5 hours ago, warfelg said:

get these frustrations with it, and I've gone through some of the extra things that play into why these talking points are what they are.

I think something some don't realize that the talking heads are mainly just people who can talk well and look good on TV.  Honestly that's what it is.  The people that matter most are the researchers who put the data in front of these people talking on TV/Radio.  They are the smart people.

I'll add to it that there is a very different level of understanding on a national level vs a local. That's how you get the issues with reputation and such vs actually watching tape. Local guys have time and attention, national do not. 

5 hours ago, warfelg said:

I'll just mention it, and I know you know this, but I despise things like DOVA because it's all stat based in quite possibly the biggest team sport there is.

I don't disagree there are issues with any scoring model....but I don't think there is any disagreeing that the Jags, Raiders, Texans, Jets, Titans, Bengals, and Eagles were some of the worst defenses in the league. 

5 hours ago, warfelg said:

As much as I want to knock talking heads for what they said at the time, they were right.

I agree with this to a point, because some of it is falling onto the right call vs having a good call. If you called the Steelers Defense being overrated mid-way through the Season and claimed you were right after they were starting a player with a 2 as his first jersey number at ILB -- you were not right, you fell into being "right". 

They were right about the passing game not being sustainable -- but none of them called that an NFL team with a [supposed] NFL OC would not evolve the game through a season. Ask 100 coaches or people close to football if their offensive game play/style will change from week 1 through week 17 and 100 of them will answer yes. They were right about being unable to sustain that game plan, because no singular game plan survives the NFL. We actually devolved our game plan, eliminating a lot of the successful pieces we used earlier in the season. I just view that one as someone asking whats inside of a garage and the answer being - a vehicle....ya know, you're right... but there 100's of styles, colors, and brands to get more specific and you painted in black and white. 

This is largely getting away from my frustrations with the narratives, as I don't really mind people being "right" about the Steelers issues -- but if you are going to compare teams seasons, you need to compare them together. If the Steelers schedule is the reason for their success, then that same mindset needs to be laid on Bakers end of the season success too since they shared schedules. No one cares to ask questions about weeks 7 through 17 when he had 5 games 60% completion or lower or that over half of his TD's in that stretch game vs two of the worst passing defenses in the league. 

Numbers over those 10 game stretches:

- 64%, 246 YPG, 16 TD, 2 INT, 102.1 Rate
- 67%, 253 YPG, 24 TD, 5 INT, 101.4 Rate

One of these lists is fake because of the schedule. The other is an MVP candidate because of them. Not counting each other, they played 7 of the same 9 opponents during those stretches. That's my narrative issue from 2020. 

Edited by Dcash4
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Dwayne Haskins was involved in a domestic dispute in Vegas earlier this month with his wife. She was the one charged for punching him in the face and knocking out a tooth/cutting him to the point that he needed stitches on his lip.

Of course, he announced he was engaged to her (or apparently he was renewing her vows because he's already married) days later. Guy has a chance to cash NFL pay checks for a few more years, at a minimum, if he can keep his **** together.

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The Third OLB hasn’t played above 28% of the snaps since 2016 - before TJ Watt. 

I like Ingram to come in and be the pseudo-starter/third guy. Gives a cushion to the Highsmith learning curve, but I still want him to be the second highest snap count (provided, he earns it). 

Maybe it takes TJ to 80%, Highsmith at 60-65% and Ingram around 45-50%. I’d really like that rotation. Question would be if Ingram is looking for that kind of set up. Frank Clark’s issues may cause there to be a full time position open on a super bowl contending team. 

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16 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

The Third OLB hasn’t played above 28% of the snaps since 2016 - before TJ Watt. 

I like Ingram to come in and be the pseudo-starter/third guy. Gives a cushion to the Highsmith learning curve, but I still want him to be the second highest snap count (provided, he earns it). 

Maybe it takes TJ to 80%, Highsmith at 60-65% and Ingram around 45-50%. I’d really like that rotation. Question would be if Ingram is looking for that kind of set up. Frank Clark’s issues may cause there to be a full time position open on a super bowl contending team. 

I would love to bring in Ingram.

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