Spinning Tires: Steelers 2021 Offseason and Beyond...

[MOSteelers56]

2 minutes ago, AFF said:

Tomlin is 3-6 in the last 10 years in the playoffs...he’s part of the problem wether people want to admit to it or not.

I like Tomlin, but I agree. He's still young and I'd like to give him a shot at building a team instead of inheriting one, but he may have already passed his prime. 

[AFF]

Staff needs more new blood...I’d say on the offensive side of the ball.

Truthfully...I don’t see the Steelers going with Rudolph or a rookie at QB.

Its going to be Ben or a vet brought in with the $19 mill in cap saving if they cut him.

Im guessing they make 1 more run.

[warfelg]

He's obviously part of the problem but the complete problem is much deeper than "fire Tomlin".

 

The defense being a speed turnover based defense is part of the problem.  When the offense isn't doing well the defense can be run on because there isn't much thump to it.  It needs to be a little better at holding out in those situations.  But where I don't think just firing Tomlin is the answer is when there's issues with the offense being able to sustain some drives to keep the defense fresh and able to make the opposing offense work.  The more true answer to this IMO is that we need to get the offense off of living on short passes and big plays and into sustaining more drives and taking time off the clock.

[AFF]

8 minutes ago, warfelg said:

He's obviously part of the problem but the complete problem is much deeper than "fire Tomlin".

 

The defense being a speed turnover based defense is part of the problem.  When the offense isn't doing well the defense can be run on because there isn't much thump to it.  It needs to be a little better at holding out in those situations.  But where I don't think just firing Tomlin is the answer is when there's issues with the offense being able to sustain some drives to keep the defense fresh and able to make the opposing offense work.  The more true answer to this IMO is that we need to get the offense off of living on short passes and big plays and into sustaining more drives and taking time off the clock.

I agree it’s more than just Tomlin but it’s going on a decade of bad playoff performance and terrible clock management and more recently IIRC terrible performance in the last 1/4 of the season.

In terms of the offense, the OL is a combo of decline phase vets and FAs.

Maybe move Chuks to LT, resign Banner on cheap prove it deal for RT and throw another top 4 round pick at both OT and interior OL with Devastro and Pouncey getting up there.

Conner is a above average RB but if you think a talent is elite, I have no problem throwing a top 60 pick at RB...Snell/samuels /McFarland are not going to have too much production.

Both Macdonald and Ebron count $8 mill each against cap...one of them is gone unless they take a sizeable pay cut.

Ton of issues on the team right now.

[Steelers22]

Largely agree on all your points (outside of Colbert: Steelers have been one of the better drafting teams in the past decade). The Tomlin point is interesting, I'm not sure where I fall on him. Ultimately, he seems to be a great regular season coach, at least in terms of consistency, but he's been below average in the playoffs. And they tend to get blown out in those losses, which I think falls on Tomlin because this team has had Super Bowl caliber talent several times during his tenure. 

I think, arguably, the biggest problem with Ben is the amount of say he has in management decisions. It is so clear Fichtner is a net negative on offense.  Unfortunately, as long as Ben is here, I don't see Fichtner going anywhere either. This whole organization feels kind of stuck in the past and I agree it is time to move on. At some point, management has to come to terms with reality. This was our last year to make a run and we failed miserably. If we were this poor this year, in what universe would you expect us to be better next year? It's clear as day this team needs to rebuild and I don't see the benefit of having another middling year of QB play from Ben in exchange for losing out on several promising young players. We don't have the draft position to target a highly touted QB prospect nor do we have so few holes that we can afford trading up. They need to use this draft to build the offensive line, because they are all cooked.

Lastly, I would update your worst case scenario. I think the worst case scenario is that they extend Ben to create cap room for this season thus mortgaging  our future for...another one and done at best? That thought horrifies me. Ultimately, I think I'm hoping Ben and Pouncey retires, we trade Haden for some sort of draft capital and we resign Sutton and Feiler (only if they plan on putting him back at RT). And of course, Fichtner gets launched into the stratosphere. From there, we can begin a proper rebuild. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Steelers22

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

He's obviously part of the problem but the complete problem is much deeper than "fire Tomlin".

The defense being a speed turnover based defense is part of the problem.  When the offense isn't doing well the defense can be run on because there isn't much thump to it.  It needs to be a little better at holding out in those situations.  But where I don't think just firing Tomlin is the answer is when there's issues with the offense being able to sustain some drives to keep the defense fresh and able to make the opposing offense work.  The more true answer to this IMO is that we need to get the offense off of living on short passes and big plays and into sustaining more drives and taking time off the clock.

Absolutely. Fichtner (and ben) have 3 years of evidence of being a dreadfully slow starting team. This defense was built to play with a lead. Losses to Bud and Bush really didn't help, but the offense being incapable of holding up their end of the bargain is a big cause of the defenses problems (with the mental issues of "here we go again" I think ranking pretty high in our end of year problems). We ranked 28th in first quarter points this year, 30th last year, and 22nd in 2018. We were top to the two previous years (10th and 4th respectively). Yes, talent has a lot to do with that, but game planning / play calling / play scripting is a huuuuuuge reason we absolutely sucked early in games. 

Without getting too deep into my thoughts yet - this is where I start with changes. Fichtner has to go, and with his contract running out and Rooney have 3 straight years on the record talking about wanting to get back to running and them doing anything but...I think the change is happening. 

I'm sure these names might not excite people, but three OC's I have interest in are Anthony Lynn, Jay Gruden, and Bill Obrien *ducks*. I feel Tomlin let's that room do whatever it wants and stays out of it, so if I can get a guy with HC experience all the better. I like what those guys have done in their times as play callers, but they fell way short in terms of being HCs (or GM's in BoB's case). Maybe we wanna take a shot at an Mike Kafka, but I am a little more worried about either a hot shot college coordinator or an inexperienced NFL play caller because of how hands off I think Tomlin is with that room. 

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

Absolutely. Fichtner (and ben) have 3 years of evidence of being a dreadfully slow starting team. This defense was built to play with a lead. Losses to Bud and Bush really didn't help, but the offense being incapable of holding up their end of the bargain is a big cause of the defenses problems (with the mental issues of "here we go again" I think ranking pretty high in our end of year problems). We ranked 28th in first quarter points this year, 30th last year, and 22nd in 2018. We were top to the two previous years (10th and 4th respectively). Yes, talent has a lot to do with that, but game planning / play calling / play scripting is a huuuuuuge reason we absolutely sucked early in games. 

Without getting too deep into my thoughts yet - this is where I start with changes. Fichtner has to go, and with his contract running out and Rooney have 3 straight years on the record talking about wanting to get back to running and them doing anything but...I think the change is happening. 

I'm sure these names might not excite people, but three OC's I have interest in are Anthony Lynn, Jay Gruden, and Bill Obrien *ducks*. I feel Tomlin let's that room do whatever it wants and stays out of it, so if I can get a guy with HC experience all the better. I like what those guys have done in their times as play callers, but they fell way short in terms of being HCs (or GM's in BoB's case). Maybe we wanna take a shot at an Mike Kafka, but I am a little more worried about either a hot shot college coordinator or an inexperienced NFL play caller because of how hands off I think Tomlin is with that room. 

With the news of Pederson being fired I know who I want.

[kurgan]

 

So... a couple of things I just want to add to this:

I know this turned into a vent about feelings about our team after the last 6-8 weeks of less than stellar play.  I have plenty to add...

There is so much that needs to happen, yet won't.  Cap stuff, ownership... all of it.

All of 43's expect to happens will happen.

Ben makes too much money to not play.  With Ben comes Pounce, Fitchner, prolly Villy, Ebron and McDonald.

I hope we do not mortgage the future by extending Ben and spreading the money out.  I'd rather have the status quo next year and start all over in 2022 than spread it out.

2022 we will have a new QB, new skill guys, more draft picks coming with comp picks from losing all of these guys, and maybe front office people.

We can make some little changes and be competivie next year, and let Ben and Pouce ride off into the sunset.  I am more into that mindset than either paying Ben to not play (and thus drafting a QB high this year) OR, even worse, extending Ben and believing that we can eat it over 2-3 years.

Worst case, Ben has a career resergence and than as a FA, we can decide.  But, we have to get out from under this albatross of a contract.  We tried to load up to win before the window closes, and we are almost there.

[Livewire]

4 hours ago, AFF said:

Tomlin is 3-6 in the last 10 years in the playoffs...he’s part of the problem wether people want to admit to it or not.

One against a back up QB against Miami. One against the Bengals thanks to having idiots on their team. One against KC thanks to a penalty on a two point conversion. 

Eagles fire their coach 3 years after a Super Bowl win. 3 years after the Steelers give up 45 points at home against the Jaguars they give up 48 points at home against a team with no head coach, 3rd stringers on the OL, and who "practiced" all week on zoom. 

Tomlin is making history for all the wrong reasons in the postseason.

[jebrick]

Quote

Dale Lolley says Ben and Pouncey were talking about their offseason while sitting on the bench after the game alone. He says Pouncey has made his decision. He's done and that is why Ben Roethlisberger was in tears. Eyes #Steelers

Saves them about $1.5M

[Steelers22]

1 minute ago, jebrick said:

Saves them about $1.5M

I think this is incorrect, at least according to Steelers Depot. They stated this would save them 8 million on their cap. In which case, I'd be happy to see him retire. 

[August4th]

so any solid Center prospects in this draft?

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Saves them about $1.5M

Here's that video:

 

[August4th]

I can see Pouncey doing some stuff in the media. him and his bro could probably do a entertaining sports podcast

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, August4th said:

I can see Pouncey doing some stuff in the media. him and his bro could probably do a entertaining sports podcast

He does a lot with charities and foundations to support local police.  I can see him and Ben basically having little to do with football in the future and focusing on doing things to help officers and aid in community outreach.