Spinning Tires: Steelers 2021 Offseason and Beyond...

[Dcash4]

War, you are kinda making my point for me. 

We spent $49M in new contracts (guys like Chick and Alualu's deals expired so they still count as "new money").....and we spent $15.15M in cap space. Like I have been saying. These numbers are not real. Everything is flexible. 

You want to sign JuJu? $16M per, you can probably have a first year cap hit under $10M. Want Hilton and Sutton? Based on Chris Harris and Steve Nelsons deals, you most likely get BOTH of them for a $10M hit point. Structure something with with Banner and a guy like Beachum in the way the Steelers do "one year" contracts (they don't do one year...because one year is stupid against the cap so they offer 2 years with move spread over for a lower year 1 hit), you can probably get both for slightly under $4M. So there I signed a starting receiver, BOTH our FA corners, a stop gap starting LT and a starting RT for about $24M in year one but probably signed $142M in new contracts. 

Now, I am not saying DO that...but it's just an example of how much money you can actually spend, but through accounting, not have a big year one hit. I probably wouldn't sign JuJu and I would get more cap from either cutting Haden or extending him which accounts for a lot of the Sutton/Hilton hit. Cut Pouncey and use his savings for a stop gap C at $2-3M per. 

The point of those last two paragraphs isnt to show what my plan would be, but rather to show the flexibility in accounting. 

It's literally all accounting. You guys get so hung up on changable, moveable numbers. You will scream to the heavens about Bens $41M, that will become $30M, but don't mention that that same year we will be getting Cam Heyward at $7M. Like you hate Ben as the 9th overall QB cap hit, but what are your thoughts of Cam Heyward - potentially the second best interior lineman in football - as the 31th DT cap hit?

Does that make sense that he would be that low? No. Does it need to? No -- its why I said earlier that I dont care if you pay boswell $50M. These numbers dont matter, provided you can make the moves you need to make. Down the road you will be paying JuJu $20m in one year....but Minkah at $5M. Heck, Minkah right now is the 38th S contract per year, but you guys keep telling me how this matters because Ben's not the #1. So just imagine, none of it matters who gets what. Imagine that $17M of Bens money is actually being paid to Minkah, making him the #1 S (which you can argue he is). So now Ben's 14th....right above Alex Smith. Everyone feel better?

It helps probably most for me, because I just look at it as a pot. All the money (cap space) goes into the pot. Doesn't matter whose it is, because I dont care WHOSE it is. You pay a premium on Ben, but get a discount on Cam. Doesnt matter, the names are useless to me, it only matters what I can do financially. 

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

you are really off here that $21mil in dead money is nothing

I am not saying it's nothing. You should not at any point make it a habit to have large numbers like that in dead space. 

I am saying it's manageable, mostly in one year scenarios -- as we saw with Antonio. 

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

Instead of Moncreif you get Tyrell Williams

I don't really care to go into the details of the whos, but dude..... Ty Williams? 😳

But the Steelers do not operate on the high end of Free Agency, which is something I am absolutely behind 100%. Free Agents that make it to market are RARELY ever the best player at that position, but will get paid the 125% premium because they are on the open market. That's how Mosley makes $17M per year when he is probably worth closer to $10M. 

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

If you think it's fine to keep restructuring and continually creating potential dead money then good for you.  But dead money kills teams and almost every cap expert warns against restructuring because it doesn't solve issues, merely delays the issue.

I do....because those experts have been saying it will catch up to everyone since the early 2010's. They all say the same thing, as long as the money in the league keeps going up, there isn't much fear -- provided you do it right. 

The only scenario's that cause strain on the restructuring process were the stalled cap year around new CBA's (which is why getting that done a year a head of time was huge) and a pandemic (have I mentioned that yet?)

I do not want to live in the restructuring world forever. I thought we wouldn't have to with Ben's contract coming to an end and guys like Pouncey and Villy being turned-over with the new TV money hitting around the same time...but then the Pandemic happened. To get out of it, we need to "survive" the year and have the new money hit while we deal out new contracts. I would love to get out of the restructuring cycle and keep it in our back pocket, but we can absolutely keep riding that wave. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Dcash4

[warfelg]

@Dcash4at this point I don’t think it matters, we’re gonna disagree on the consequences of restructuring and the usefulness of doing it. 
 

End point:

Restructuring a 38 year old QB who declined, got worse as the season went on, and had reconstructive elbow surgery to maybe bring back a somewhat replaceable WR isn’t a risk worth taking. 
 

One of two things will happen:

Ben retires and we’re stuck with a big dead cap. -OR- Ben comes back despite being bad because “he’s under contract and feels obliged to finish it” (honestly go back and look, that’s been his reasoning before). 

[August4th]

 

[CKSteeler]

I found this response from Lafleur on the Packers blown defensive call before the half to be particularly relevant to the excuses made for Tomlin on the short yardage call:

Quote

Mike Pettine no longer is with the Packers, but the team’s former defensive coordinator still is taking heat in Green Bay for allowing Scotty Miller‘s touchdown before halftime in the NFC Championship Game.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported head coach Matt LaFleur wanted one coverage but Pettine called another. Miller scored a 39-yard touchdown with 1 second left in the first half.

 

LaFleur said immediately after the game: “It was man coverage. Definitely not the right call for the situation.”

LaFleur was asked Monday whether he called for a different coverage than the one the Packers ran.

“That was just a flat-out miscommunication and ultimately, anytime something like that occurs, that 100 percent falls squarely on my shoulders,” LaFleur said, via Rob Demovsky of ESPN. “I’ve got to make sure that I’m crystal clear with our communication and those mistakes cannot happen, especially when the stakes are so big, in particular, we pride ourselves on being great in situations. Bottom line is all calls go through me. So I don’t care who makes the call; it’s all my fault. Bottom line: I’m responsible for every play call — offense, defense, special teams — and that every call goes through me. So if I’m ever unhappy with a call, I have the ability to do something about it. And that’s all I’m going to really say about that.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/01/matt-lafleur-takes-responsibility-for-miscommunication-on-scotty-miller-touchdown/

The excuses made for Tomlin time and time again reminded me of how one Steelers fan dubbed him the potted plant in response. There's virtually nothing that when push comes to shove that some of you will blame Tomlin for from the hiring of his own staff to critical in game decisions. You may be willing to express some general frustration at the state of affairs, but the second someone directs specific criticism towards the guy the same old excuses fly.

[VigilantZombie]

24 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

I found this response from Lafleur on the Packers blown defensive call before the half to be particularly relevant to the excuses made for Tomlin on the short yardage call:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/01/matt-lafleur-takes-responsibility-for-miscommunication-on-scotty-miller-touchdown/

The excuses made for Tomlin time and time again reminded me of how one Steelers fan dubbed him the potted plant in response. There's virtually nothing that when push comes to shove that some of you will blame Tomlin for from the hiring of his own staff to critical in game decisions. You may be willing to express some general frustration at the state of affairs, but the second someone directs specific criticism towards the guy the same old excuses fly.

Tomlin is absolutely responsible for a major portion of this teams failures. From the decision to keep Fichtner as the OC to failure to make adjustments to his press conference responses that prove time and time again nothing is going to change during a season in staff or play calling. 

More importantly he seems perfectly  content with the continued failed seasons.

[warfelg]

Man must be some bad coaches everywhere:

Almost the exact type of stuff Tomlin does. 

[Dcash4]

And our offense is extremely simplistic you say? 

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

And our offense is extremely simplistic you say? 

I can't tell if that's a shot at Ben or a complement of Ben TBH.  Then again it has been a decade since he was here so maybe his memory isn't that clear of it or maybe Ben has changed.

[Dcash4]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

I can't tell if that's a shot at Ben or a complement of Ben TBH.  Then again it has been a decade since he was here so maybe his memory isn't that clear of it or maybe Ben has changed.

I don’t think Arians is taking a shot at Ben, I honestly think he is just telling it as it is (which is the Arians way). He went on to say luck was the same way and that those guys were so “smart”. 

But, to me, it makes a sense with the idea I think we all have that after his head butting with Haley they brought on Fichtner to run the offense the way Ben wanted. That quote of “not wanting to overload [with preparation]” while looking at how simplistic and readable our offense was and how our starts to games never seemed like we had a plan kinda make a lot of sense. 

Personally, this fits what I have always thought of Ben. He is more “doer” than “thinker”. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he reads defense or isn’t football smart (I do, just not as committed or as above the shoulders as some of the others)... but I always thought he was the best football player at quarterback not the best quarterback in football. The quote has a very “wakes up better than people” vibe. 

[warfelg]

12 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I don’t think Arians is taking a shot at Ben, I honestly think he is just telling it as it is (which is the Arians way). He went on to say luck was the same way and that those guys were so “smart”. 

But, to me, it makes a sense with the idea I think we all have that after his head butting with Haley they brought on Fichtner to run the offense the way Ben wanted. That quote of “not wanting to overload [with preparation]” while looking at how simplistic and readable our offense was and how our starts to games never seemed like we had a plan kinda make a lot of sense. 

Personally, this fits what I have always thought of Ben. He is more “doer” than “thinker”. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he reads defense or isn’t football smart (I do, just not as committed or as above the shoulders as some of the others)... but I always thought he was the best football player at quarterback not the best quarterback in football. The quote has a very “wakes up better than people” vibe. 

Yea but given the media someone is gonna run with the "Ben's lazy" angle.

I look at it that there's 3 QB's that are out there:

~ Type 1: Sees the game and reacts to everything.  These are the guys out of the game fast.  Think Johnny Manziel.

~ Type 2: Has a good understanding of the game, can feel the game.  This is where I have Ben, Russell Wilson, Matt Stafford.

~ Type 3: This is the mixed bag group to me.  They are the mental QB's.  They likely have some physical limits, and try to make up with studying the game to the death.  You can get Tom Brady.  Or you can get Jason Campbell.

[warfelg]

 

[Dcash4]

If I am JuJu and the Steelers really wanted me back, we are gonna have a real long hard talk about how you wanted to use me. 

Also, you wouldn't be getting a discount for me to be Ben's Ryan Switzer. Im playing more Z and we are going back to my seam/over busting ways from the slot on three wides.

I keep thinking back to the Jags game in 18 where he went 8 for 104 playing almost exclusively on the outside against Bouye and Ramsey. Comebacks and back shoulders made up the vast majority of his production that day against two of the better cover guys in the league. Drives me nuts that they didn't think to use him that way in any capacity this last year. 

[AFF]

Slightly OT but if juju gets a $15 mill AAV deal, then Allen Robinson should get $20 mill...that dude is a tank.

[Dcash4]

46 minutes ago, AFF said:

Slightly OT but if juju gets a $15 mill AAV deal, then Allen Robinson should get $20 mill...that dude is a tank.

I think he for sure will. He is in that Cooper, Hill, Thomas, Allen tier. I hope this time he gets the QB he deserves. He doesn't get anywhere near the recognition he deserves because of the likes of Bortles, Foles, and Trubiski. 

[Dcash4]

Speaking of receivers, if we do not sign JuJu I wouldn't mind following Curtis Samuels stock. If he is ultimately asking for $10M+ no thank you, but I do think he would fit what I believe Canada would like as a weapon from the slot. End arounds, jets, has some RB in his history... a lot of flexibility there and someone I think has produced pretty well the last two years. 

I desperately do not want us to draft a receiver this year, or a running back for that matter (unless its a stud #1). We gotta stop hitting the same draft spots, regardless of success. 

Also speaking of receivers, if we DO sign JuJu, I wanna know what I can get for James Washington. A 3rd/early 4 would be a decent return.