CKSteeler Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Dcash4 said: I'll take Ben if I am actually trying to win games. The complete lack of respect for him is mind boggling to me. This was not a 12 win team this year with Mason Rudolph playing. They'd have been lucky to get 6 wins. The defensive performance was not as strong as 2019's, not as many turnovers or big plays by the defense. But people want to pretend that the team is barely better with Ben next year. And as if they have a crystal ball and call tell you what the supposed ceiling of the team is. Tom Brady looked more washed up than Ben did a year ago in NE. The only question I have is whether Ben is going to accept schematic changes, but he's hardly the liability some make him out to be. He's still a top 15 QB in the league (my opinion is top 10, frankly). He can't move like he used to, but he still has the arm talent and his above the shoulders game has only continued to improve. There are few QB's in the league who can lead a no huddle attack the way he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 The defense had a lot more to do with winning 12 games than our offense did this season. That's the reality of it. Ben and Pouncey combined for 5 Turnovers in the playoffs. Its not the first time Ben has had a game like this in the last 5 years. In fact it's least the 3rd, twice in the playoffs. What I took out of the meeting going well and Ben's agent confirming Ben will be back for 2021 is that this FO is still incapable of admitting failure in that they have not properly prepared for a future beyond Ben. So instead of moving on, they're content keeping a QB that'll more than likely be more of the reason we lose in the playoffs than the reason we might get there. I've said it before and I'll say it again now. With Ben at QB, this team is not getting to another SB let alone winning on. The next Pittsburgh Steeler SB capable QB is not on the roster currently. This, to me, is going to be yet another wasted season where the team gets our hopes up and crashes and Burns as a result of Ben Roethlisberger. Don't worry, it'll only cost us Bud Dupree, Mike Hilton, Juju, Conner, and probably Sutton.... also potentially Nelson and/or Haden to make Room for the extension costs of Ben. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, wwhickok said: This, to me, is going to be yet another wasted season where the team gets our hopes up and crashes and Burns as a result of Ben Roethlisberger. And people will complain about the coach instead to boot. 2 minutes ago, wwhickok said: So instead of moving on, they're content keeping a QB that'll more than likely be more of the reason we lose in the playoffs than the reason we might get there. I’m curious of this now. What does alternative history look like in 2017 if they did trade up and we take Watson or Mahomes as opposed to Watt (it was rumored they were enamored with Mahomes). Would we be going into a 5th year option with a QB we have no clue what he’s like and let a stud out the door or would we have never extended Ben these last few years in the first place. Anyways. Here we go to losing a bunch of FAs and finishing 3rd in the division! Just to keep Ben around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Also if I’m Watt’s/Fitzpatrick’s/Edmunds’/Nelson’s agent right now I tell them not to extend. If the Steelers don’t produce a plan for post Ben why would you want to be tied to them when there’s teams with better rosters and QBs with cap space next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, warfelg said: Also if I’m Watt’s/Fitzpatrick’s/Edmunds’/Nelson’s agent right now I tell them not to extend. If the Steelers don’t produce a plan for post Ben why would you want to be tied to them when there’s teams with better rosters and QBs with cap space next year. I agree 100%. I want nothing more than to have to eat crow and be wrong about Ben but he has been here about 3 seasons past when he should have been. When he blew out his arm last year, that should've kicked planning for the future into high gear. They REFUSE to put any pressure on Ben to have to play better. To them, what happened in the playoffs is probably not even a little bit Ben's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Sorry for multiple posts but this has kinda gone unanswered: If you want Ben back, what’s the ceiling? Playoffs? 1st round win? Or do you honestly think with losses and turnover this team can win a Super Bowl? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, wwhickok said: I agree 100%. I want nothing more than to have to eat crow and be wrong about Ben but he has been here about 3 seasons past when he should have been. When he blew out his arm last year, that should've kicked planning for the future into high gear. They REFUSE to put any pressure on Ben to have to play better. To them, what happened in the playoffs is probably not even a little bit Ben's fault. I’ll say this is pure speculation by me: After how things ended with a few other “legends” with Ward, Harrison, Polamalu; they didn’t want to be seen as forcing a guy to retire not on their own terms. Edited February 24, 2021 by warfelg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 12 minutes ago, warfelg said: Anyways. Here we go to losing a bunch of FAs and finishing 3rd in the division! Just to keep Ben around. It's comical because it's already been explained to you in excruciating detail, in terms you can't refute, that keeping Ben in no serious way impacts keeping any FA. He could be cut and you save little to nothing. 20 minutes ago, wwhickok said: The defense had a lot more to do with winning 12 games than our offense did this season. Ben was the entire offense, and we already saw what an even stronger defensive performance got the team in 2019. They didn't even get to the playoffs. There was a 4 game difference, in fact. I don't know what the ceiling is for next year, but I do know that the team is better with #7 than without. There isn't a single viable alternative that would produce more wins next season than keeping Ben. 17 minutes ago, warfelg said: And people will complain about the coach instead to boot. I don't believe the team ever wins another Super Bowl with Tomlin as the head coach. The league has passed him by, and the stars aren't aligning for him again no matter who his QB is. At least Ben is just battling age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: Ben was the entire offense, and we already saw what an even stronger defensive performance got the team in 2019. They didn't even get to the playoffs. There was a 4 game difference, in fact. I don't know what the ceiling is for next year, but I do know that the team is better with #7 than without. There isn't a single viable alternative that would produce more wins next season than keeping Ben. No one has anything so far that I disagree with as much as this. Ben missed WIDE open WRs all season. He, as stated, threw 4 Ints in the playoff game. He threw Ints throughout the season on what amounted to REALLY bad passes and reads. Maybe we are a couple games better with Ben. But are we SB contenders? No. Not remotely. So long story short we worsen our ability to get a QB in 2022 for the sake of Ben being able to control the roster. We lose young talent for a QB that is washed up. We hold off being a contender for the sake of a QB that doesn't seem to understand that he is part of the problem and a FO that doesn't care that he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, warfelg said: Kinda weird to have ARII making an announcement like this or is it just me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, wwhickok said: Ben missed WIDE open WRs all season Ok. Give some examples. 6 minutes ago, wwhickok said: He threw Ints throughout the season on what amounted to REALLY bad passes and reads. He threw 10 interceptions all season long. 10. It was the third lowest interception percentage of his career. And he was the entire offense. 8 minutes ago, wwhickok said: We lose young talent for a QB that is washed up. There isn't a single FA the team is going to lose by keeping Ben. The team is in the situation they are cap wise because of restructures in the past and, as many teams are experiencing, covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Just now, AFF said: Kinda weird to have ARII making an announcement like this or is it just me? Yes and no maybe? I think it tells me that they maybe have the cap hit thing done too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 52 minutes ago, warfelg said: Anyways. Here we go to losing a bunch of FAs and finishing 3rd in the division! Just to keep Ben around. Here’s to losing no more FAs than what we would have in the first place because you guys still don’t get it’s a $4m difference and not a $19m one. What do you guys not get about this? War, I know you don’t want to restructure for the dead cap, but that’s what they are going to do and it’s going to save us all but $4M if they do it fully instead of a cut. So we gotta stop with this “gonna cost us out FAs” that’s just not true. I also find it funny how many times during the season we heard about moving on from Dupree, or JuJu, or taking Sutton over Hilton...but now with Ben and this $4m? No no we gotta sign everyone! 48 minutes ago, warfelg said: Also if I’m Watt’s/Fitzpatrick’s/Edmunds’/Nelson’s agent right now I tell them not to extend. If the Steelers don’t produce a plan for post Ben why would you want to be tied to them when there’s teams with better rosters and QBs with cap space next year. I just....what? Yes. I’m sure they would rather hear, “hey...we are gonna take a year off in hopes we get better at QB next year, but statistics say we probably won’t and we will live in mediocrity for the rest of your contract...tell your friend and climb on board!” Guys, this stuff is getting silly now. I have no problem imagining actual players want to put their best foot forward every year and try to win games. I’m sure those guys on defense would be really excited to know they have to play at 2019 standards and above to win. Really gets the fire going ya know? Players sign with the Jets for Christ’s sake. Players say how much they love their time in Pittsburgh. I’m sorry, there isn’t going to be some deep plot to evacuate the talent because they brought back Ben on a contract they gave him (you know, because players hate having their contracts honored so much). 42 minutes ago, warfelg said: If you want Ben back, what’s the ceiling? Playoffs? 1st round win? Or do you honestly think with losses and turnover this team can win a Super Bowl? I want a team that positions itself to try to win games. You guys keep acting like it’s super bowl or bust and that our situation next year drastically changes if we don’t have ben....it doesn’t. But y’all better become Chiefs fans real quick. The ultimate goal is to win the championship yes. You can’t make it to the championship without making it to playoffs. You can’t make it to playoffs without winning games. You can’t win games without putting the best team on the field. If you get to playoffs, it’s a one game elimination. Can we beat Pat Mahomes 7 out of 10 games? No...but you don’t have to. We have no clue what the future holds, so while I believe you always have an eye on the future, you gotta care about today. TJ could read about concussions and pull a Willis. Minkah could blow his knee and never be the same. It might take us 25 years to find the next QB and not for lack of trying. Think of how many teams have played this rebuilding game to only still be rebuilding? But boy let me tell you, that Matt Feiler signing with that extra $4m would probably put us right at the head of the table in 2022, am I right? It has absolutely nothing to do with holding onto ben for nostalgia. It has nothing to do with me thinking he is well above average (I don’t). It has everything to do with me thinking Ben is better than the FA trash, trading a second for Darnold, or Mason Rudolph with an extra $4m spending money. That’s it. That’s the end of the whys list. And I’m sure that’s the end of the Steelers why list too. I still maintain our best option would have been cutting Ben and trading for Minshew and giving him and his extremely friendly contract a two year run while we put assets into the offense. If you think the best option is cutting ben, fine. But some of the reasons you guys are throwing out there are just either ill informed or willingly oblivious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 18 minutes ago, warfelg said: Yes and no maybe? I think it tells me that they maybe have the cap hit thing done too. That makes sense, but I feel like they wouldn’t announce that. Feels to me like it’s to kick off the good-bye tour. “We welcome Ben back for his final year” kinda thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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