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Spinning Tires: Steelers 2021 Offseason and Beyond...


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38 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Jarvis Jones says hi. It took years to get Dupree to the level he's at now. The team found two edge guys after years of looking and using premium picks on the position.. Highsmith was not ready last year, and got dinged up himself. Highsmith was a liability against the run, as well, which is where he'd probably struggle the most to fill in for Dupree.

I am far more comfortable with the notion of James Washington stepping up in three WR sets and Claypool continuing to develop than I am of Highsmith stepping in for Dupree and not missing a beat. And the team can make due if one WR gets hurt. If Watt or Highsmith gets hurt next year, the team is fielding absolute garbage at OLB. Sort of like what happened in the playoff game.

Dupree has become a blue chip player. Juju has been a disappointment for two seasons in a row now.

I think Highsmith is probably a more nuanced pass rusher than Dupree. I think he'll be fine rushing the passer. I think the noticeable difference will be everything else. Bud is a good cover guy, he's a good tackler, and he's great at stopping the run. I think the weakest part of his game was his pass rushing. Highsmith is good at that. He's got tons of winning moves. 

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You bring bud back cause you need more then 2 pass rushers ... And Bud does everything he's a great compliment to Watt ...

Everyone says how good hightower was, but the defense as a whole took a giant step back after bud got hurt (not all completely on hightower but he's not Bud) ... And so now you have just watt and hightower, what happens when one of em gets injured? You need at least 3 or 4 guys

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19 minutes ago, Cbrunn said:

You bring bud back cause you need more then 2 pass rushers ... And Bud does everything he's a great compliment to Watt ...

Everyone says how good hightower was, but the defense as a whole took a giant step back after bud got hurt (not all completely on hightower but he's not Bud) ... And so now you have just watt and hightower, what happens when one of em gets injured? You need at least 3 or 4 guys

I'd say we might look for a vet FA pass rusher for that exact reason. We might draft one to fill that need too. 

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1 minute ago, AFF said:

Rotation/depth needed at edge has nothing to do with them.

Here’s the thing: if the argument is we need Dupree back because of a lack of pass rush, they absolutely count. If the argument is the rotation/depth why are you spending that much on a guy who will be rotating in?

 

So you can pay Dupree $20mil to get ~10 sacks, or let’s say you get Kerrigan at $8mil and Hightower at $1 mil and get 13 sacks between the two of them. What’s better for the cap and overall with the team?

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Bud's value is his all around game. But are people really willing to say that after a pandemic shortened year 1 of Highsmith that Bud is a $16M improvement over him?

I would for sure roll the dice that Highsmith gets stronger, understands his assignments, and improves his technique in year 2 vs paying Dupree $16M+. 

Bud was the 4th best player of our front 4. I am all for that unit being a beast, but at some point you gotta cut ties that don't financially make sense. 

Highsmith potential + $16M > Bud Dupree continuing his pass rushing dominance that we only saw for 11 games of his career. 

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4 hours ago, warfelg said:

Here’s the thing: if the argument is we need Dupree back because of a lack of pass rush, they absolutely count. If the argument is the rotation/depth why are you spending that much on a guy who will be rotating in?

 

So you can pay Dupree $20mil to get ~10 sacks, or let’s say you get Kerrigan at $8mil and Hightower at $1 mil and get 13 sacks between the two of them. What’s better for the cap and overall with the team?

We both know it’s not that simple. Dupree starts abs Highsmith gets plenty of snaps rotating in.

Year 1 cap hits are not gonna be in the range of his AAV over the length of the deal...his year 1 is in the range probably $6-$8 mill.

I don’t understand the willingness to pay JuJu but not Dupree...to each their own I guess/agree to disagree.

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36 minutes ago, AFF said:

I don’t understand the willingness to pay JuJu but not Dupree...to each their own I guess/agree to disagree.

So, just for the fun of arguing, because, personally I wouldn’t pay either...

I think JuJu is far more year 1 and 2 than he is year 3 and 4 based solely on circumstance (which, I hope we don’t have to get into because they are pretty obvious). I think Dupree is far more years 1-5 than he is year 6, and that’s being the 4th best player in a massively talented front. 
 

Juju is 24, Bud 28. I think there are better years ahead for JuJu, and I think we have seen the best from Bud. 

While I understand rotation, I’m going to play two OLB at around an 85% plus clip. I can live in three wide sets 60%+ of the time. I’m not going to pay Bud and then TJ massively to have Highsmith cut deeply into their snap counts and take them off the field regularly. At receiver, I can have JuJu, Claypool, and DJ continue to take significantly higher snap counts. 

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38 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

So, just for the fun of arguing, because, personally I wouldn’t pay either...

I think JuJu is far more year 1 and 2 than he is year 3 and 4 based solely on circumstance (which, I hope we don’t have to get into because they are pretty obvious). I think Dupree is far more years 1-5 than he is year 6, and that’s being the 4th best player in a massively talented front. 
 

Juju is 24, Bud 28. I think there are better years ahead for JuJu, and I think we have seen the best from Bud. 

While I understand rotation, I’m going to play two OLB at around an 85% plus clip. I can live in three wide sets 60%+ of the time. I’m not going to pay Bud and then TJ massively to have Highsmith cut deeply into their snap counts and take them off the field regularly. At receiver, I can have JuJu, Claypool, and DJ continue to take significantly higher snap counts. 

I consider Bud a better player at his position than JuJu....Bud being the 4th bestis irrelevant...talent is talent.

Highsmith would keep TJ/Bud fresh...JuJu gets replaced by the Steelers usual 2-4th rd rookie and WShington.

I don’t consider Juju to be anything special...good yes...elite no.

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27 minutes ago, AFF said:

Bud being the 4th bestis irrelevant...talent is talent.

Not really irrelevant. That’s spot on defense gets to feast on the scraps of 3 extremely good rushers and a defensive scheme that’s good at opening things up. 

Not sure I can find the stats (pretty sure I heard it in a pod...) but he benefited greatly from a lot of free rusher and cleanup style production.

So if a large portion of success comes from benefiting off the other three....I don’t think it’s in your best interest to pay top dollar for that player. 

Ahh found it: “The problem is that he has played in an environment that gives him a lot of layups in terms of pass rushing. Last season, 60.5% of Dupree's total pressures were either unblocked, cleanup or pursuit plays, which are more circumstantial than they are evidence of plus play. By contrast, only 26% of T.J. Watt's pressures fell into those categories.”

I’m not (over)paying for that. 

31 minutes ago, AFF said:

JuJu gets replaced by the Steelers usual 2-4th rd rookie and WShington.

There is a price I’m willing to pay to stop drafting RB and WR in the middle rounds for 15 straight drafts. Also, no thank you Washington. Rewatching his “successful” 2019, there’s a reason he had a lesser role in 2020. 

33 minutes ago, AFF said:

I don’t consider Juju to be anything special...good yes...elite no.

I think you can use this exact same sentence for Dupree. I think Dupree’s replacement is already on the roster while JuJus is metaphorical at this point. Combine usage availability and age and I would rather pay for that if I had to choose one. 

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17 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I think Highsmith is probably a more nuanced pass rusher than Dupree. I think he'll be fine rushing the passer. I think the noticeable difference will be everything else. Bud is a good cover guy, he's a good tackler, and he's great at stopping the run. I think the weakest part of his game was his pass rushing. Highsmith is good at that. He's got tons of winning moves. 

Highsmith actually has a good jump ( i.e high KEI) which Jones did not.  Highsmith just needs to get stronger. 

I have nothing against Dupree.  I think he was played on the wrong side for his first 3 years.  He always had the physical ability.

 

This year's EDGE class is thin on top and deep in the 2nd-4th rounders.  Anyone they take at EDGE will need at least a year to develop.

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