RaidersAreOne Posted January 13, 2021 Author Share Posted January 13, 2021 I agree, most if not all our players on D deserve the opportunity to show they can play in a Defense not led by PG. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Geezy said: those picks were made specifically for Guenthers system, yes guys were over drafted, but Ferrell was widely regarded as a top 20 pick. I can see Mullen putting it together behind a pass rush. Its hard to decipher what the core issue is right now because its a clusterf*** of problems. On defense, Littleton has proven hes a Pro Bowl type player with the Rams, Joyner was borderline that kind of guys a a FS, Mullen has the tools to build upon, but tell me why he didnt make a clear jump in year 2? Maxx is a pass rush specialist ideally. Kwit is a above average MLB imo. I know you dont like Abram, but like others, i feel he has a place in the league, specifically closer to the LOS where we can take advantage of his play style. Good coaches put players in position to succeed, we will see if Bradley fits that bill, Guenther clearly didnt. For Bradley's defense to work, they have to create pressure up front. He has Ferrell and Crosby. Unless they get extremely lucky at 17, they are not landing a top end pass rusher in the draft. So where are you going to get that pass rush to help a guy like Mullen? The core issue I see on defense is lack of talent. Pure and simple. Worse, no remedy to fix. There isn't 1 "great" player on that side of the ball currently Yes, Bradley can put them in positions to succeed. However, they still are not great players. Your upside is a defense ranked 23 - 25th in points allowed. Upgrade, yes. But your still a 9 win team and outside looking in at the playoffs. Until they can add great players on defense, they will be a 7-10 win team with their offense. And being 8-8, your trying to catch lightning in a bottle with the draft. Or you can trade for a great player if ones available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Geezy said: I know you dont like Abram, but like others, i feel he has a place in the league, Also.... this is how low the bar is for Abram. We are hoping "he has a place in the league" They traded an all-pro pass rusher for the pick used to draft his sorry *** and the fans here are hoping "he has a place in the league". All this fan base cares about is having a winning season and maybe making the playoffs. When it aspires for a championship team, then maybe we can stop pinning hopes on terrible draft picks and start thinking like winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said: I agree, most if not all our players on D deserve the opportunity to show they can play in a Defense not led by PG. Deserve the chance yes. But expecting these low ceiling players who have so few traits to suddenly flip a switch and be great players is misguided. The pass rush will be a problem. Ferrell and Crosby are not it. Hard to draft a top tier edge rusher at 17. FA pool of pass rusher is minimal. Where do you go to find a quality player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Also.... this is how low the bar is for Abram. We are hoping "he has a place in the league" They traded an all-pro pass rusher for the pick used to draft his sorry *** and the fans here are hoping "he has a place in the league". All this fan base cares about is having a winning season and maybe making the playoffs. When it aspires for a championship team, then maybe we can stop pinning hopes on terrible draft picks and start thinking like winners. Wow lol... Abram hater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, big_palooka said: For Bradley's defense to work, they have to create pressure up front. He has Ferrell and Crosby. Unless they get extremely lucky at 17, they are not landing a top end pass rusher in the draft. So where are you going to get that pass rush to help a guy like Mullen? The core issue I see on defense is lack of talent. Pure and simple. Worse, no remedy to fix. There isn't 1 "great" player on that side of the ball currently Yes, Bradley can put them in positions to succeed. However, they still are not great players. Your upside is a defense ranked 23 - 25th in points allowed. Upgrade, yes. But your still a 9 win team and outside looking in at the playoffs. Until they can add great players on defense, they will be a 7-10 win team with their offense. And being 8-8, your trying to catch lightning in a bottle with the draft. Or you can trade for a great player if ones available. i agree, we need a dominant player on defense, to make teams game plan for and to make everyone else job easier. With that type of player we would see improvement across the board, but it isnt all that easy. I could see this defense better with Mack, than the 2016 defense for example. So, where we disagree is the overall talent level, although we dont have the top end talent, i believe there are solid pieces that can be part of a successful defense in the right scheme being utilized correctly, which shouldnt be too much to ask for. Say the upside right now with Bradley, is the 23-25 defense, which sadly would be a significant improvement on last year. We add a couple more guys, and our young guys take a bit of a step(not all that far fetched) were looking at a top 15-20 type of defense in which we are in the playoffs with imo. call me naive for believing in our young guys and the potential for our staff to develop it, but thats the wave im riding. I know our past, and we havent groomed talent like the good teams continuously do. Hopefully this time we made the right choice in DC, im willing to give them the benefit of doubt before i wave the white flag. I believe Mayock reached on guys like Ferrell and Arnette out of desperation, but, this year we have less glaring holes than we did when taking them. Im tired of the reaches, so im hoping that after two drafts filling a ton of holes and playing it safe, we can go BPA and add some real talent, regardless of position on defense, which is when your able to find true impact guys imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Also.... this is how low the bar is for Abram. We are hoping "he has a place in the league" They traded an all-pro pass rusher for the pick used to draft his sorry *** and the fans here are hoping "he has a place in the league". All this fan base cares about is having a winning season and maybe making the playoffs. When it aspires for a championship team, then maybe we can stop pinning hopes on terrible draft picks and start thinking like winners. if im being real, it hasnt looked good with Abram. I like him and his energy, but i cant deny hes poor in coverage and lacks discipline. A place in the league, closer to the LOS where he can make an impact, is still an impact, that he can still live up to his draft status. My thing is, if your gonna take a guy like Abram, or sign a dude like Joyner, you better put them in positions to succeed. Not make a FS a nickel, and a Box safety an ïnterchangeable'''S playing coverage all the time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted January 13, 2021 Author Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Geezy said: My thing is, if your gonna take a guy like Abram, or sign a dude like Joyner, you better put them in positions to succeed. Not make a FS a nickel, and a Box safety an ïnterchangeable'''S playing coverage all the time. Amen. For whatever reason PG seemed to put players out of position and was too stubborn to move them around. Joyner at CB for example. Was absolute toast last year and although he improved a bit this season he still looked way better at S when he got snaps there. Abram should not be playing high or in a lot of man. Ferrell should have stopped getting kicked inside. Hurst outplayed Collins considerably yet didn't get much PT. The list goes on and on about our past DC making personnel mistakes and I truly pray Bradley isn't as stubborn or blind. I find some sense of optimism in the fact players like Littleton looked wayyyy better once a different play caller came in on D. I hope that trickles down to everyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 20 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Deserve the chance yes. But expecting these low ceiling players who have so few traits to suddenly flip a switch and be great players is misguided. The pass rush will be a problem. Ferrell and Crosby are not it. Hard to draft a top tier edge rusher at 17. FA pool of pass rusher is minimal. Where do you go to find a quality player? no one said theyd all of a sudden become great players. Just that guys can be placed in better situations. Ferrell can be a base end, and Crosby would be better served as a pash rush specialist, combined, theyd make for a quality 1/2 of our starting DE's. We can bring in a guys like Melvin Ingram, and add a DE to groom in the draft. Yes, were going to have to hit on a some moves this year, but it isnt impossible and with our offense we dont need a top 10 defense, just one that doesnt completely blow, similar to KC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: Amen. For whatever reason PG seemed to put players out of position and was too stubborn to move them around. Joyner at CB for example. Was absolute toast last year and although he improved a bit this season he still looked way better at S when he got snaps there. Abram should not be playing high or in a lot of man. Ferrell should have stopped getting kicked inside. Hurst outplayed Collins considerably yet didn't get much PT. The list goes on and on about our past DC making personnel mistakes and I truly pray Bradley isn't as stubborn or blind. I find some sense of optimism in the fact players like Littleton looked wayyyy better once a different play caller came in on D. I hope that trickles down to everyone. 100, id like the post but i wasted them all in the DC thread lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted January 13, 2021 Author Share Posted January 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Geezy said: 100, id like the post but i wasted them all in the DC thread lmao Who in their right mind still visits that thread!? My head hurts every-time thinking of the stuff said in there. I'll pop in to post a quote every once in a while then get the hell out of there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: Who in their right mind still visits that thread!? My head hurts every-time thinking of the stuff said in there. I'll pop in to post a quote every once in a while then get the hell out of there. 😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: Also.... this is how low the bar is for Abram. We are hoping "he has a place in the league" They traded an all-pro pass rusher for the pick used to draft his sorry *** and the fans here are hoping "he has a place in the league". All this fan base cares about is having a winning season and maybe making the playoffs. When it aspires for a championship team, then maybe we can stop pinning hopes on terrible draft picks and start thinking like winners. Making the playoffs has to be the goal right now. When you do that, you set a higher goal. It's called progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Geezy said: i agree, we need a dominant player on defense, to make teams game plan for and to make everyone else job easier. With that type of player we would see improvement across the board, but it isnt all that easy. I could see this defense better with Mack, than the 2016 defense for example. So, where we disagree is the overall talent level, although we dont have the top end talent, i believe there are solid pieces that can be part of a successful defense in the right scheme being utilized correctly, which shouldnt be too much to ask for. Say the upside right now with Bradley, is the 23-25 defense, which sadly would be a significant improvement on last year. We add a couple more guys, and our young guys take a bit of a step(not all that far fetched) were looking at a top 15-20 type of defense in which we are in the playoffs with imo. call me naive for believing in our young guys and the potential for our staff to develop it, but thats the wave im riding. I know our past, and we havent groomed talent like the good teams continuously do. Hopefully this time we made the right choice in DC, im willing to give them the benefit of doubt before i wave the white flag. I believe Mayock reached on guys like Ferrell and Arnette out of desperation, but, this year we have less glaring holes than we did when taking them. Im tired of the reaches, so im hoping that after two drafts filling a ton of holes and playing it safe, we can go BPA and add some real talent, regardless of position on defense, which is when your able to find true impact guys imo. True defensive talents, the ones that end up in being great, show up regardless. I've not see anything from this crop of young players that has me excited to say.... this kid is going to be great. I've had enough of this blind optimism that Raider fans live with. Every player is just sitting on potential and the coaches have to bring it out. Every season, for 18 years now. And adding a great player only happens via trade. Becuase they are a middle of the pack team who won't pick high enough in the draft to grab a great player. What your hoping for is someone falls into their laps. But it's time for Gruden/Mayock to get real serious about how they are going to get some serious talent on that side of the ball. Going to take a big splash of a move. If you role into 2021 with Ferrell, Crosby, 32 year old Melvin Ingram and a rookie... this pass rush and defense won't improve enough to get them a winning season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevil Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Just wondering - to those who are negative about this hire - who were you expecting or hoping for? And are you arguing that a different choice could make more of a difference than Bradley? To me, Bradley is as good as we are going to get and as good as we deserve given the state we’re in. I can’t say I follow college football or have enough knowledge of up and coming position coordinators to know what better options might be out there - but if there are any, would they come here? Plus to the point about writing off Bradley because we have no defensive talent - surely we have to start somewhere, so why not get a coach who has shown they can coach talented players? Isn’t that a better starting point than someone who hasn’t proven they can? It’s a fairly important piece of the jigsaw and given the lack of talent, will at least give us a foundation to hopefully progress nice we build a better roster, which obviously won’t happen immediately, but can over the next 2-3 years which is how long we’re gonna need if we’re being honest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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