Raiders hire Gus Bradley as DC

[Jerry]

17 hours ago, Geezy said:

some of those talents take time to develop. Nnamdi was dog **** his first 3 years in the league. The good teams draft and develop. Weve been trying to make a splash for the same 18 years you mention. Moss, Carson Palmer, DMC, Richard Seymour etc. We need to develop players at some point. 

Great players are picked in the back half of the 1st round every year. Teams like the Ravens and Steelers clean up every year, because they have a scheme they stay true to, draft players to fit what they do, and develop them. Meanwhile, the Jags make a splash every offseason only to release every one in two seasons and pick top 3(and still dont draft great players)

Huge difference that cannot be emphasized enough, CONTINUITY!  Ravens and Steelers have had the same HCs for at least 10 years.  Their systems have remained the same with minor tweaks.  They keep their core players for their entire careers.  Jags cycle through HCs like underwear.  Huge difference.  We don't need to get the very best players every single draft, we need to keep our coaching staff together long enough to develop the players we have into the players they need to be in order for us to win. 

The best decision recently made in our organization is giving Gruden 10 years.  The core players we currently have (K. Miller, Renfrow, D. Waller, Jacobs, DC, M. Crosby, Mullen, Kwit, Littleton, Abram, Ruggs) are all going to continue to improve.  We are slowly but surely assembling a team that can get to the playoffs year after year.  Eventually we will be adding only a couple of FAs and having only 2-3 impact rookies because we will have assembled a team that can win that does not require major reloads every single offseason.  I'm okay with this slow rebuild and think we are about to have five to six straight years in the playoffs to end Grudens 10 year contract.  We may be fighting with KC for supremacy and that's okay, at least we can punch back now.  At least we have an offense that can throw some violent haymakers to keep us in games.  Defense is next too.

[agarcia34]

Best thing about Gus Bradley system is that it’s a simple system to learn. Keep it simple stupid. Won’t be seeing guys out there lost like the past 3 years. Even Bradley said it the system is made for young guys to get into it right away. 
 

I do worry about Kwait tho Ted made a great point on how the MLB in his system picks up the 3rd WR if he crosses the field. Maybe they put Littleton there to give them more athletic ability and a better runner. 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, agarcia34 said:

Best thing about Gus Bradley system is that it’s a simple system to learn. Keep it simple stupid. Won’t be seeing guys out there lost like the past 3 years. Even Bradley said it the system is made for young guys to get into it right away. 
 

I do worry about Kwait tho Ted made a great point on how the MLB in his system picks up the 3rd WR if he crosses the field. Maybe they put Littleton there to give them more athletic ability and a better runner. 

Except you need a 4 man pass rush. Nobody has explained to me how that happens except the usual "hope" Ferrell, Crosby get better. Sign Leo Williams, who likely doesn't hit FA, and if does has better options than Vegas. "Hope" the 17 overall pick is a home run. 

And even then, Marinelli, the guy everyone here blasts regularly, is still coaching them.

So how can this team realistically build a 4 man pass rush? 

[BackinBlack]

4 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Except you need a 4 man pass rush. Nobody has explained to me how that happens except the usual "hope" Ferrell, Crosby get better. Sign Leo Williams, who likely doesn't hit FA, and if does has better options than Vegas. "Hope" the 17 overall pick is a home run. 

And even then, Marinelli, the guy everyone here blasts regularly, is still coaching them.

So how can this team realistically build a 4 man pass rush? 

well i mean you just shoot down any answer
- we say develop our talent - you say thats just wishful thinking
- we say draft better - you say we havent hit on a d draft pick outside of mack in 2 decades
- we say FA - you say no one good will come to FA

- - - 
the best way to realistically build a 4 man pass rush, is to continuously draft the Dline with high picks (should be at least 1 in first 3 round) every year. 
that wont necessarily solve it this season, but have to start now. 
we have to try to coach up and improve our young players. Not rely on them, but understand they are young and coachable.

[Jerry]

15 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Except you need a 4 man pass rush. Nobody has explained to me how that happens except the usual "hope" Ferrell, Crosby get better. Sign Leo Williams, who likely doesn't hit FA, and if does has better options than Vegas. "Hope" the 17 overall pick is a home run. 

And even then, Marinelli, the guy everyone here blasts regularly, is still coaching them.

So how can this team realistically build a 4 man pass rush? 

Draft and sign nothing but DL.  Just cut all our losses elsewhere and attack the DL issue completely.  I'm overexaggerating of course but we clearly need to attack this issue thoroughly during the off season.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

well i mean you just shoot down any answer
- we say develop our talent - you say thats just wishful thinking
- we say draft better - you say we havent hit on a d draft pick outside of mack in 2 decades
- we say FA - you say no one good will come to FA

- - - 
the best way to realistically build a 4 man pass rush, is to continuously draft the Dline with high picks (should be at least 1 in first 3 round) every year. 
that wont necessarily solve it this season, but have to start now. 
we have to try to coach up and improve our young players. Not rely on them, but understand they are young and coachable.

That was my point to start with. That the defense is a 3 year rebuild. It's going to take hitting on the right players and getting some consistent playmaking talent in here.

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

That was my point to start with. That the defense is a 3 year rebuild. It's going to take hitting on the right players and getting some consistent playmaking talent in here.

ah well then I def agree there. 

If Gus can just take up from bottom 3, to say 8th-12th worst this year, ill be happy with his first year on the job. 

[oakdb36]

1 minute ago, BackinBlack said:

ah well then I def agree there. 

If Gus can just take up from bottom 3, to say 8th-12th worst this year, ill be happy with his first year on the job. 

Definitely. Not sure why you'd even have to explain that the expectation isn't for the D to go from terrible to elite in 1 year.

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

That was my point to start with. That the defense is a 3 year rebuild. It's going to take hitting on the right players and getting some consistent playmaking talent in here.

That is one of the reasons we should target Dupree.  With the injury his first year will be a wash but we can sign him at a discount also.  4 year $40-45 million should get it done.  He should be back for the second half of the season.  We also need a NT and Hankins will be the easiest to secure and give us the most bang for the buck.  We will need to sign 2-3 more DTs  since all we have is Hurst.  I would also like to bring Irving back as boom or bust player.  How we fix the defense is to cut dead weight on the offensive side of the ball and a couple players on defense.  For next year we have $54 tied up in the O-line and $24 on the D-line.  Being smart with our money and picks will go a long way too.  If we can not find an impact player then we need to sit on our hands the first week of FA.  This goes for Dupree also but I think he will either sign with the Steelers before FA or will have to wait a little while.  Find players at a discount which should happen with the cap dropping.  Trade players we do not see as fits even if  it is for a reduced price.  Picks will be worth more this year with a reduced cap.  Take those picks and trade them for future picks if we do not have a target.  Buy low and sell high mentality this year.  Win at the margins and we will build faster.  If we can trim a million here and there over a year or two we end up being able to sign Robinson for $18 million instead of Agholor for $9-10 million.  If we would have traded Gabe last year the money we would have saved combined with the money some want to us to sign Agholor would equal what Robinson wants.  Just an example because we need to focus on defense but like you said there is not enough talent to do a quick turn around.

[Humble_Beast]

10 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

That is one of the reasons we should target Dupree.  With the injury his first year will be a wash but we can sign him at a discount also.  4 year $40-45 million should get it done.  He should be back for the second half of the season.  We also need a NT and Hankins will be the easiest to secure and give us the most bang for the buck.  We will need to sign 2-3 more DTs  since all we have is Hurst.  I would also like to bring Irving back as boom or bust player.  How we fix the defense is to cut dead weight on the offensive side of the ball and a couple players on defense.  For next year we have $54 tied up in the O-line and $24 on the D-line.  Being smart with our money and picks will go a long way too.  If we can not find an impact player then we need to sit on our hands the first week of FA.  This goes for Dupree also but I think he will either sign with the Steelers before FA or will have to wait a little while.  Find players at a discount which should happen with the cap dropping.  Trade players we do not see as fits even if  it is for a reduced price.  Picks will be worth more this year with a reduced cap.  Take those picks and trade them for future picks if we do not have a target.  Buy low and sell high mentality this year.  Win at the margins and we will build faster.  If we can trim a million here and there over a year or two we end up being able to sign Robinson for $18 million instead of Agholor for $9-10 million.  If we would have traded Gabe last year the money we would have saved combined with the money some want to us to sign Agholor would equal what Robinson wants.  Just an example because we need to focus on defense but like you said there is not enough talent to do a quick turn around.

First 2 picks on DL

- sign Ingram or Williams 

- Arob 

3rd round a new starting RG 

- sign a free agent FS like Sherman.....  quick fix 

[big_palooka]

4 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

First 2 picks on DL

- sign Ingram or Williams 

- Arob 

3rd round a new starting RG 

- sign a free agent FS like Sherman.....  quick fix 

Guys like you who want a "quick fix" are going to be very disappointed. 

Williams and Arob are expensive players. What about all the other holes you have to fill after that spending spree? 

 

[MrOaktown_56]

The defense could be in the 16 to 20 range THIS upcoming year. Not saying it will be. But if we actually hit on picks and sign the right guys, plus scheme well, it is definitely possible. Teams have seen crazier turnarounds before.

[drfrey13]

47 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

The defense could be in the 16 to 20 range THIS upcoming year. Not saying it will be. But if we actually hit on picks and sign the right guys, plus scheme well, it is definitely possible. Teams have seen crazier turnarounds before.

This is my best case scenario.  If we had a more aggressive scheme and some luck we could do better but also do worse.  I hope we do not see the same bend do not break defense that can not get off the field on 3rd down.

[Humble_Beast]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Guys like you who want a "quick fix" are going to be very disappointed. 

Williams and Arob are expensive players. What about all the other holes you have to fill after that spending spree? 

 

Give guys like Amik, Simpson, McMillen a chance at starting.... 

[Mr Raider]

I think another big key we should focus on along with the DL is target guys that cause turnovers. Look to draft some ball hawks, even if they aren't the best lockdown types. That's another thing that can turn a terrible defense into good enough to win with a high powered offense.

We were downright horrible at causing turnovers. Obviously a lack of pressure is a huge part of that, but scheme (with the soft zones and off man) as well as having players that aren't necessarily guys that make splash plays all were part of it. Hopefully guys like Arnette and Mullen can be better about it with more experience, Robertson can be one of those guys, but overall if our defense is going to be bad or below average one of the ways to compensate will be to force a lot of turnovers.