Jump to content

-$95 million ... Saint cap situation and what to do with Brees.


Recommended Posts

16 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

I wanna believe man but I cant ignore my eyes... It could have easily been 40+ Ints and the footwork in the pocket was horrific. Even many of his big plays felt like he lucked into it or got away with something.

 

It almost felt like he was just chunkin it up and hopin for the best for the most part. Some of the INTs were the worst thrown balls ive ever seen on tape.

 

It was bad...

A lot of that is on Arians. Look at Brady early in the year before he essentially told Arians he was done running his offense. Arians entire offense is essentially heave it downfield and pray.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/22/2021 at 7:47 PM, whodatworm23 said:

Man... Im eating my words on Winston right now. Just finnished breaking down his 2019 game film.

 

So bad, ugly football!

I haven't done it yet (I'm also likely going to soon as well), but I think it would honestly be a more indicative breakdown using his 2018 game film or at least film prior to 2019. As we've touched upon, the Arians effect is real, and with him being coached to just huck down field even if it's into double coverage, I can't help but think Winston was mentally all over the place during that 2019 season. Think it would be better watch games where he wasn't essentially told to relearn how to read the game in Arians system with his philosophy on how to play QB. The results may be just as bad, but then again might not be quite as bad and give a little more hope for his future with us.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

I haven't done it yet (I'm also likely going to soon as well), but I think it would honestly be a more indicative breakdown using his 2018 game film or at least film prior to 2019. As we've touched upon, the Arians effect is real, and with him being coached to just huck down field even if it's into double coverage, I can't help but think Winston was mentally all over the place during that 2019 season. Think it would be better watch games where he wasn't essentially told to relearn how to read the game in Arians system with his philosophy on how to play QB. The results may be just as bad, but then again might not be quite as bad and give a little more hope for his future with us.

That’s not gonna look much better.  He didn’t have as many turnovers, but he also barely cracked 4K yards before that.  Jameis has always had a problem making decisions, Arians didn’t cause that, he only amplified it.

He won’t have 40 turnovers under Payton.  But he could still have too many, and cause us to lose too many games.  We’re hoping he improves that part of his game, and there’s no way to find out until we give him the start.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

That’s not gonna look much better.  He didn’t have as many turnovers, but he also barely cracked 4K yards before that.  Jameis has always had a problem making decisions, Arians didn’t cause that, he only amplified it.

He won’t have 40 turnovers under Payton.  But he could still have too many, and cause us to lose too many games.  We’re hoping he improves that part of his game, and there’s no way to find out until we give him the start.

Gotta remember Brees wasn't nearly as efficient in San Diego as he was in New Orleans as well.

Brees SDG:

2002:  16 games, 60.8% comp, 3284 yards, 17 TD, 16 INT

2003:  11 games, 57.6% comp, 2108 yards, 11 TD, 15 INT

2004:  15 games, 65.5% comp, 3159 yards, 27 TD, 7 INT

2005:  16 games, 64.6% comp, 3576 yards, 24 TD, 15 INT

Not the most confidence inspiring seasons huh?

Winston TB

2015:  16 games, 58.3% comp, 4042 yards, 22 TD, 15 INT

2016:  16 games, 60.8% comp, 4090 yards, 28 TD, 18 INT

2017:  13 games, 63.8% comp, 3504 yards, 19 TD, 11 INT

2018:  11 games, 64.6% comp, 2992 yards, 19 TD, 14 INT

Not the most confidence inspiring seasons either, but both has a mostly upward completion %, and some solid to good TD/INT ratio seasons as well as some bad ones.  Winston has the talent to perform, just need to see if the coaching and personnel around him can help him take the next step.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Raves said:

Gotta remember Brees wasn't nearly as efficient in San Diego as he was in New Orleans as well.

Brees SDG:

2002:  16 games, 60.8% comp, 3284 yards, 17 TD, 16 INT

2003:  11 games, 57.6% comp, 2108 yards, 11 TD, 15 INT

2004:  15 games, 65.5% comp, 3159 yards, 27 TD, 7 INT

2005:  16 games, 64.6% comp, 3576 yards, 24 TD, 15 INT

Not the most confidence inspiring seasons huh?

Winston TB

2015:  16 games, 58.3% comp, 4042 yards, 22 TD, 15 INT

2016:  16 games, 60.8% comp, 4090 yards, 28 TD, 18 INT

2017:  13 games, 63.8% comp, 3504 yards, 19 TD, 11 INT

2018:  11 games, 64.6% comp, 2992 yards, 19 TD, 14 INT

Not the most confidence inspiring seasons either, but both has a mostly upward completion %, and some solid to good TD/INT ratio seasons as well as some bad ones.  Winston has the talent to perform, just need to see if the coaching and personnel around him can help him take the next step.

Winston having the talent is not the question, it’s his brains and football IQ that are in question.

Brees wasn’t as good in San Diego, but Brees never had the talent Jameis has.  Brees was gonna have to either figure it out soon or be out of the league.  He couldn’t come in firing on all cylinders like a Mahomes with generational talent.

Brrees did show flashes though, putting up an extremely efficient  2004.  The light bulb came on that season and he was generally anywhere from good to elite after that.

We’re still waiting on the light bulb to come on for Jameis, and the hope is it will happen with us next year.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jlowe22 said:

That’s not gonna look much better.  He didn’t have as many turnovers, but he also barely cracked 4K yards before that.  Jameis has always had a problem making decisions, Arians didn’t cause that, he only amplified it.

Not saying it will be great prior to 2019, I've mentioned many times, decision making is his biggest downfall. Whodatworm mentioned footwork and such were atrocious in last seasons tape. I was just saying it was only amplified under Arians QB philosophy. It at least "likely" won't look like such crazy overhaul that would need to be done with comparing those previous years with the insane turn over rate he had last year. His interception percentages were as follows:

2015- 2.8%

2016- 3.2%

2017- 2.5%

2018- 3.7%

2019- 4.8%

That 2019 interception % is nearly double his 2017 percentage. I'd like to think under Payton, he could be closer to the 2017 Jameis (or better) instead of the 2019 Jameis in regards to throwing picks. 

Quote

He won’t have 40 turnovers under Payton.  But he could still have too many, and cause us to lose too many games.  We’re hoping he improves that part of his game, and there’s no way to find out until we give him the start.

That is the million dollar question. Arians and Payton have shown to have far different QB philosophy. Payton has shown he can adapt his style to fit his QB. We've seen changes from "early" Brees, to past 3-4 seasons Brees, to even a much different Taysom Hill offense. For Winston, he's had a year to sit and take in as much of the offense he can, working with a 1st ballot HOF QB, and a top notch coach in Payton to learn as many nuances of the game as he possibly can. There are few if any better situations for him to hit the reset button on his career this past year to start fresh. I think his decision making can improve quite a bit in this offense. The question we all want to see is if it can stay consistently "good enough" when he is likely given a chance next year.

Having guys like Kamara and Thomas are about as good of help that a QB can have to correct decision making/forcing passes. Kamara is excellent as a check down security blanket as he can be utilized so often allowing a QB to not have to force a pass and instead check down him and still likely net a positive play. Thomas wins contested catches as well as any WR in the league and can mask "some" decisions/inaccurate passes that could easily be turnovers. If Winston can't succeed here, that's likely the end of the road for him as a starter in the league.

Edited by tyler735
Link to post
Share on other sites

People also seem to forget In Brees earlier years, we were very much a downfield passing team.  We mixed in a lot of screens and shorter throws, but we definitely had quick strike and chunk play ability.  The 5-7 yard routes of the last two years were 15-17  yard routes in 2011, and Brees chunked deep prayers a ton.  Brees used to gunsling a lot really, and people seem to forget about that.

This offense under Jameis or Taysom will incorporate that stuff back in, and ints at gonna go up again from the super low numbers Brees has had since 2017-2018.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Raves said:

Gotta remember Brees wasn't nearly as efficient in San Diego as he was in New Orleans as well.

Brees SDG:

2002:  16 games, 60.8% comp, 3284 yards, 17 TD, 16 INT

2003:  11 games, 57.6% comp, 2108 yards, 11 TD, 15 INT

2004:  15 games, 65.5% comp, 3159 yards, 27 TD, 7 INT

2005:  16 games, 64.6% comp, 3576 yards, 24 TD, 15 INT

Not the most confidence inspiring seasons huh?

Winston TB

2015:  16 games, 58.3% comp, 4042 yards, 22 TD, 15 INT

2016:  16 games, 60.8% comp, 4090 yards, 28 TD, 18 INT

2017:  13 games, 63.8% comp, 3504 yards, 19 TD, 11 INT

2018:  11 games, 64.6% comp, 2992 yards, 19 TD, 14 INT

Not the most confidence inspiring seasons either, but both has a mostly upward completion %, and some solid to good TD/INT ratio seasons as well as some bad ones.  Winston has the talent to perform, just need to see if the coaching and personnel around him can help him take the next step.

Brees was in a system where the HC did not believe in him for the first 3 seasons playing "Marty Ball" (us old timers know what that is). He also had the NFLs best back during that time in a heavy run first offense.

 

Winston was drafted first overall by a organization that believed in him and cut him loose from day one.  They even built up a impressive passing roster and he still had the bad decisions from college follow him and only get worse.

 

Compare them if you want but beyond the stats the situations were completely different.

Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

People also seem to forget In Brees earlier years, we were very much a downfield passing team.  We mixed in a lot of screens and shorter throws, but we definitely had quick strike and chunk play ability.  The 5-7 yard routes of the last two years were 15-17  yard routes in 2011, and Brees chunked deep prayers a ton.  Brees used to gunsling a lot really, and people seem to forget about that.

This offense under Jameis or Taysom will incorporate that stuff back in, and ints at gonna go up again from the super low numbers Brees has had since 2017-2018.

The more and more I break down Hill and Winston... I think both are a reach as a franchise QB for this team but I do admit that Hill at least gives the offense the added element of making off script plays which I think will become a major part of our offense moving forward.

 

Also... Another thing that simply cannot be ignored. Taysom Hill will be making 16 MILLION in 2021. That is part of the equation, like it or not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/25/2021 at 12:17 PM, Jlowe22 said:

Winston having the talent is not the question, it’s his brains and football IQ that are in question.

We’re still waiting on the light bulb to come on for Jameis, and the hope is it will happen with us next year.

I really hope coaching (and a different setting) can help flip that switch.

On 1/25/2021 at 12:07 PM, Raves said:

Gotta remember Brees wasn't nearly as efficient in San Diego as he was in New Orleans as well.

Brees SDG:

2002:  16 games, 60.8% comp, 3284 yards, 17 TD, 16 INT

2003:  11 games, 57.6% comp, 2108 yards, 11 TD, 15 INT

2004:  15 games, 65.5% comp, 3159 yards, 27 TD, 7 INT

2005:  16 games, 64.6% comp, 3576 yards, 24 TD, 15 INT

Not the most confidence inspiring seasons huh?

Winston TB

2015:  16 games, 58.3% comp, 4042 yards, 22 TD, 15 INT

2016:  16 games, 60.8% comp, 4090 yards, 28 TD, 18 INT

2017:  13 games, 63.8% comp, 3504 yards, 19 TD, 11 INT

2018:  11 games, 64.6% comp, 2992 yards, 19 TD, 14 INT

Not the most confidence inspiring seasons either, but both has a mostly upward completion %, and some solid to good TD/INT ratio seasons as well as some bad ones.  Winston has the talent to perform, just need to see if the coaching and personnel around him can help him take the next step.

We're comparing to Brees, so let's compare to the (other talked about) GOAT, Brady's 1st 4 (full) seasons.

2001: 14 games, 63.9% comp, 2843 yards, 18 TD, 12 INT
2002: 16 games, 62.1% comp, 3764 yards, 28 TD, 14 INT
2003: 16 games, 60.2% comp, 3620 yards, 23 TD, 12 INT
2004: 16 games, 60.8% comp, 3692 yards, 28 TD, 14 INT

Brady didn't really have a ridiculous season until 2007 when he had 68.9% completions, 4806 yards, 50 TDs and only 8 INTs. All crazy numbers. Oh, and went 16-0. His best season ever.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...