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League source: Ryan Pace and Matt Nagy will be back in 2021


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11 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Bama constantly has a top recruiting class and has possibly the best college coach of all time. Saban could hire one of us to run their offense and the team is still going to do well. Should we talk about how well KC has done offensively since Nagy left? Lol. These are over-generalized statements. 

 

I get being a skeptic, especially when their success had been rather brief but at least they had success on their own accord instead of being nothing more than a Reid puppet. I'd feel infinitely more comfortable with Roman or Daboll than Nagy, who I feel is a sub .500 quality HC that just was lucky enough to have the defense carry him so far. 

Daboll did more in either of the last seasons than Nagy has done in his career offensively. Tru has actually declined under him (outside of argualble ARob and Monty who hasnt on offense over the last 2-3 years?), Allen has been better than almost any QB while you even mentioned he was fixing what seemed impossible. In the postseason they scored more in the wildcard than Nagy has in 2 postseason appearances combined. 

As for the Ravens offense it has completely outshone the Bears again so the "decline" is still better than our 2018 season - the outlier that was propped with 5 defensive TDs iirc. So how incompetent is Nagy that they are apparently using a gimmick offense that is unsustainable and dealing with some major injuries to critical players for that scheme and they STILL were better than Nagy's beat? With Marquise Brown, Mark Andrew's and Willie Snead they still threw for 1 more TD than Chicago this season and was more efficient. That's while being able to almost double our rushing total. They also handily beat us in total yards, so I'll take their down year. It would be the Ninth Symphony of Nagy's career. I mean let's be real, Nagy wouldnt have been able to do near as much as Daboll or Roman in their shoes. If were comparing Gase, Daboll and Roman, let's bring Loggains back because I'm not sure he couldn't have done the same with the talent Nagy has had. 

I haven't compared him or anyone to Nagy.  If you wanna get rid of Nagy as a play-caller...I agree.  But that wasn't my point here. I just don't see the appeal in Daboll.  It seems like another case of recency bias where people suddenly hop on the bandwagon of latest shiny toy.  It happened with Haley, Kelly, McVay, Pederson, etc.  

9 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

I'm not advocating for Daboll, just throwing out what others are saying.

Nobody is anointing him after 2 years. His career has been much longer than that. He's just worked for a lot of really bad teams.

So your just writing it off as being circumstantial and in the wrong place at the wrong time? Sorry, I'm not buying it. He was just at fault as the rest were.  

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10 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I haven't compared him or anyone to Nagy.  If you wanna get rid of Nagy as a play-caller...I agree.  But that wasn't my point here. I just don't see the appeal in Daboll.  It seems like another case of recency bias where people suddenly hop on the bandwagon of latest shiny toy.  It happened with Haley, Kelly, McVay, Pederson, etc.  

 

No the Nagy comparison was me. Didnt mean to insinuate you said anything, just feel it is a relevant comparison. My issue was Tru has regressed in 3 years under Nagy, he had a drop off between year 1 and 2. At least with Daboll Allen has improved as a player each year. As someone who thought Allen was going to be fool's gold and was laughably wrong, his work has really impressed me. 

 

He may flop tremendously but I feel his ceiling is much higher than anything Nagy could do. I'm still a fan of his, Brady, Leftwich, and Daboll. I cant say I'm sure any will be elite HCs but I have little doubt any could have ran the offense better than what we've had from ours since it's usually the weak link of our team. 

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1 minute ago, Sugashane said:

No the Nagy comparison was me. Didnt mean to insinuate you said anything, just feel it is a relevant comparison. My issue was Tru has regressed in 3 years under Nagy, he had a drop off between year 1 and 2. At least with Daboll Allen has improved as a player each year. As someone who thought Allen was going to be fool's gold and was laughably wrong, his work has really impressed me. 

 

He may flop tremendously but I feel his ceiling is much higher than anything Nagy could do. I'm still a fan of his, Brady, Leftwich, and Daboll. I cant say I'm sure any will be elite HCs but I have little doubt any could have ran the offense better than what we've had from ours since it's usually the weak link of our team. 

Same here (in fact I'm still hesitant with Allen). I understand that and I give him credit for it too but as I said before it's not just Daboll either though.  

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7 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Same here (in fact I'm still hesitant with Allen). I understand that and I give him credit for it too but as I said before it's not just Daboll either though.  

Then Dorsey becomes the OC. Bring it on!!! Lol

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2 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

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I want him as HC so damn bad. I was glad when he chose to stay instead of choosing another NFL team because that still leaves the possibility open. 

But I'm a bit biased though too lol. My hometown Rockets do nothing but produce coaches. 

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4 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So your just writing it off as being circumstantial and in the wrong place at the wrong time? Sorry, I'm not buying it. He was just at fault as the rest were.  

Go look at the rosters he was working with in Cleveland and Miami and tell me he was at fault for their lack of success.

I’m not trying to advocate for hiring Daboll, I just don’t think we should judge him too harshly. Is he the latest shiny new toy? Sure.  So is every new head coach.

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3 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

Go look at the rosters he was working with in Cleveland and Miami and tell me he was at fault for their lack of success.

I’m not trying to advocate for hiring Daboll, I just don’t think we should judge him too harshly. Is he the latest shiny new toy? Sure.  So is every new head coach.

So do you give Nagy a pass then? 

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1 minute ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So do you give Nagy a pass then? 

Somewhat for the garbage offensive talent Pace gave him.

I still think he has done a mediocre job adapting to that sub standard ingredients.

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18 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Somewhat for the garbage offensive talent Pace gave him.

I still think he has done a mediocre job adapting to that sub standard ingredients.

It's Nagy's offense. He chose to be here thinking he could fix Mitch, not Pace. Nagy chose to switch up his offense 4 different times at sporadic periods, not Pace. Nagy decided he couldn't fix Mitch anymore and decided to go after Foles thinking he could fix him too, not Pace. 

Lets be careful when placing blame here. Why was it that Mitch's rookie year before Nagy got here that he was able to be accurate as hell when throwing on the run and was ALWAYS looking to throw past the stick regardless of how far the first down marker was? On 3rd and 15 or 3rd and 20, Mitch would ALWAYS try to get a first down. WHy did he become so timid as a passer? Because Nagy coddled him. Not Pace, not the Easter Bunny....NAGY. 

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19 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

It's Nagy's offense. He chose to be here thinking he could fix Mitch, not Pace. Nagy chose to switch up his offense 4 different times at sporadic periods, not Pace. Nagy decided he couldn't fix Mitch anymore and decided to go after Foles thinking he could fix him too, not Pace. 

Lets be careful when placing blame here. Why was it that Mitch's rookie year before Nagy got here that he was able to be accurate as hell when throwing on the run and was ALWAYS looking to throw past the stick regardless of how far the first down marker was? On 3rd and 15 or 3rd and 20, Mitch would ALWAYS try to get a first down. WHy did he become so timid as a passer? Because Nagy coddled him. Not Pace, not the Easter Bunny....NAGY. 

His rookie year there were games he threw 7 passes. He was running a high school offense under Fox. He threw 7 TDs in 12 games.

Nagy is an egomaniac, I can’t argue that.

But he is also trying to run an actual NFL offense with a mediocre QB and OL. That is not a recipe for success.

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15 hours ago, WindyCity said:

His rookie year there were games he threw 7 passes. He was running a high school offense under Fox. He threw 7 TDs in 12 games.

Nagy is an egomaniac, I can’t argue that.

But he is also trying to run an actual NFL offense with a mediocre QB and OL. That is not a recipe for success.

There was 1 game where he threw 7 passes. Let's not exaggerate. Good OCs figure out a way to make mediocre QBs look decent. Not worse than they were. See Shanny.

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1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

There was 1 game where he threw 7 passes. Let's not exaggerate. Good OCs figure out a way to make mediocre QBs look decent. Not worse than they were. See Shanny.

I am there with you, Nagy isn’t a good OC.

Shanny is a great OC and even he is at the behest of his OL and QB. His OL and QB were banged up and the offense struggled.

Shanny would do better with this talent, but he wouldn’t have them averaging 28 points.

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