Marty Hurney hired as WFT GM

[Thaiphoon]

17 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

He was great in 2016 for Washington. Then as he started to age more in 2017, 18 & 19 his play dropped off.

So, then he had 2-3 good years. Where did I move the goalpost?

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said:

So, then he had 2-3 good years. Where did I move the goalpost?

When you talked about him being a system player - which is true he’s best in McDermott’s system - but at the same time most players are best in one system than they are in other systems so that felt like it was moving the goal post.

But, I’ll defer to you about that bc you’re always right and I’m always wrong.

[naptownskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Yeah. You missed the context that I explained to @naptownskinsfan

Again... I'm not talking about grooming someone already in the building that you're already working with while you go towards retirement. Like Ozzie with DeCosta in Baltimore.

I'm talking about hiring a guy from OUTSIDE of your team to come in and groom their replacement so the team can then fire the guy and replace him with the guy he just groomed. 

"Yeah, we'd like you to come in and teach the kid the ropes for a few years and then we'll let you go."

Show me when that has happened. No one is gonna take a job when during the interview the employer says "as soon as you train the new guy, you're gone"

That's why I said GM's don't take jobs to groom their replacements. They want to stay employed for a long time.

 

Exactly this.  And I keep hearing things like this, or "well, he needs experience in another department."  No, he doesn't.  A guy can leverage his knowledge of talent evaluation into a GM position, in the same way a cap expert can leverage his knowledge into a GM position.  Just in the same way when I interview someone for a leadership position, I could care less about some of their job-specific experiences, but I want to know how they influence people, how they develop talent, and most importantly, how they manage different personalities and opinions on their team.

And let me tell you something, right now, Rivera is getting a big fat F on that last portion.  Insulating yourself with similar mindsets in today's NFL is one sure way to get you fired.  As a matter of fact, it got Doug Pederson fired from one of our division rivals.  Sometimes you need to leverage someone else to get ahead of the curve, and you are not doing that if you insulate yourself with your buddies and folks who are like-minded thinkers.  

Rivera has done enough on the field changing the culture in the locker room.  I was wrong about some of the coaches.  Some of them, the book is still out on.  But the organization itself has a long way to go, and we aren't going to solve that by hiring a bunch of folks from the Carolina front office and turning ourselves into their operation.  Remember, from 2016-2019, that same front office and coaching staff was sub .500 and got them all fired.  

[naptownskinsfan]

4 hours ago, e16bball said:

I’m not really trying to bag on the guy, I don’t think he’s a really bad GM. This isn’t a Jim Zorn or Greg Manusky hire. 

He’s just not...good. Probably somewhere between average and below average. Which seems like an odd choice for a young, up-and-coming team, choosing to make a transition to an old guy who has pretty much shown what he can do. 

It’s not all bad. Nothing is more important than hitting on your 1st round picks, where you’ve just got to be landing good starters (and not busting) every year, and he’s got a great track record there. Leaving aside the 3 most recent 1st round selections (Derrick Brown, Brian Burns, and DJ Moore, all very promising players), it appears that 9 of his 11 first round picks have made at least one Pro Bowl. Only one was an outright bust (Jeff Otah), as Chris Gamble never made the Pro Bowl but was a very solid starter for years. Remarkably, 7 of those 11 first rounders also got at least one 1st team All-Pro nod. That’s really fantastic.

I probably gave him too much credit earlier by including the 2nd round in his successes. That was a big problem in his first stint, but he grabbed some very quality players in the 2nd over the last few seasons, including Taylor Moton, Curtis Samuel, and Jeremy Chinn. And I’ve already mentioned some of the good 3rd round picks, so maybe you’ve at least got a shot at hitting some starters on Day 2. 

He's exactly Greg Manusky.  Average to below average.  And, I think this further cements the Team as not being huge players in free agency, so don't expect many big contracts handed out this year, unless they are going to our own players.  Expect another offseason of reclamation projects.  

I just don't understand the upside here.  There isn't any, and that's a problem. 

[naptownskinsfan]

5 hours ago, offbyone said:

We already hired a business manager- Jason Wright.  Hurney won't be hiring coaching staff.  So I can only assume that player personnel will be his top focus.  

 

I don't want to put words to the posts of the person you quoted, but I think he is more referring to the front office executives who will be reporting to Hurney and running various departments, not anyone going into the business end of things.  

[naptownskinsfan]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

this forum won’t even talk about some of the good moves bc people are so brainwashed into thinking that every Washington Football move will be a failure bc most have been failure over the last 27 years. 

It is because the volume of ineptitude vastly outnumbers any of the good moves we have made over that time.  And, it's not just our failings on the field, it's off them as well.  Our franchise is arguably the scummiest professional sports franchise off the field, so there's that as well.  It's really hard to support this team, and the only reason I am still here is that I had family play for the team.  

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

He's exactly Greg Manusky.  Average to below average.  And, I think this further cements the Team as not being huge players in free agency, so don't expect many big contracts handed out this year, unless they are going to our own players.  Expect another offseason of reclamation projects.  

I just don't understand the upside here.  There isn't any, and that's a problem. 

While this could be true, Manusky got nothing right. At least Hurney barely missed on 1st round picks in 15 years of being the Panthers GM, he also trade for Greg Olsen which was an awesome trade. 
 

I also agree with Mknight that we don’t really know what Hurney’s role will be yet. We assume he’s going to be a Gm in the typical sense making the final decisions on a lot of stuff personnel wise, doing contracts and doing a lot of draft work but as MKnight suggested that could be totally wrong.

For all we know Kyle Smith & Stokes stay in their roles and have success doing that and I think for sure that Rivera is still going to have final say and he made some good decisions last year with personnel - the only ones I disagree with is not keeping Peterson to have more of a run first offense w/ he and Gibby splitting carries & keeping Apke over Sean Davis.

We will find out I guess as time goes on but Hurney could’ve been brought in just to help Rivera with the administrative stuff that he didn’t realize would bog him down so much and take him away from concentrating mostly on just football. So, Hurney may not even have that big of a role at all, we just don’t know yet and I don’t think we while jump to conclusions.

[A TRAIN 89]

As long as a fully-functioning FO is out in place, I don’t mind that Hurney is at the top. For too long, this operation has been bare bones and dysfunctional. 

[Thaiphoon]

13 hours ago, turtle28 said:

When you talked about him being a system player - which is true he’s best in McDermott’s system - but at the same time most players are best in one system than they are in other systems so that felt like it was moving the goal post.

But, I’ll defer to you about that bc you’re always right and I’m always wrong.

But that's not moving the goalpost. Let's review the discussion:

• I stated he had a few good years. But dropped off after that and now is the definition of average.
• You didn't deny that and said that they happened while he was in Carolina.
• I didn't deny those years were in Carolina. I reiterated my assertion that he had a few good years there but was not very good once he left.
• You then came back and said "yeah, well he was All-Pro in Carolina" (again him being good in Carolina is not in dispute) in order to use it to explain why Hurney is a good GM.
• I explained how he could look good in Carolina and not good everywhere else (using the Shanahan analogy) in order to show you that drafting Norman isn't the "win" you think it is.
• You then inexplicably think I somehow moved the goalposts? When my stance has never changed? 

 

[MKnight82]

11 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

It is because the volume of ineptitude vastly outnumbers any of the good moves we have made over that time.  And, it's not just our failings on the field, it's off them as well.  Our franchise is arguably the scummiest professional sports franchise off the field, so there's that as well.  It's really hard to support this team, and the only reason I am still here is that I had family play for the team.  

That was the old regime though.  

[naptownskinsfan]

Just now, MKnight82 said:

That was the old regime though.  

We've been excited about new regimes before, and the fact that the leaks haven't stopped indicates that something around the team hasn't changed.  

[MikeT14]

8 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

We've been excited about new regimes before, and the fact that the leaks haven't stopped indicates that something around the team hasn't changed.  

Bingo. There's always the snake at the top.

[turtle28]

11 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

It is because the volume of ineptitude vastly outnumbers any of the good moves we have made over that time.  And, it's not just our failings on the field, it's off them as well.  Our franchise is arguably the scummiest professional sports franchise off the field, so there's that as well.  It's really hard to support this team, and the only reason I am still here is that I had family play for the team.  

I entirely get it, but all I’m trying to do is point out that it wasn’t all bad with Hurney, even past his Carolina days he was Assistant GM for Bethard in San Diego and got that team to the Super Bowl in the 90s and they were contenders for a as long as Stan Humphries was there which really sucks for Redskins fans bc that could’ve been us if Gibbs had chosen to keep Humphries over Rypien but obviously that wasn’t going to happen bc Rypien had won us a super bowl a few years before, it’s just our bad luck that Rypien hurt his knee and was never the same after that.

 

As far as our franchise goes our HC you love to hate has already improved the culture and we looked better on the field last year with a mostly young team in Rivera’s first year. So, we seems to be heading in the right direction, I don’t think the hire of Hurney changes that. Rivera still has final say and last year working with Kyle Smith Rivera having final say worked out well and set us in the right direction.
 

I’m just saying there are some good things here and people shouldn’t ignore them.  As I said since the beginning of the thread and in the Kyle Smith thread, I’m not happy about the hire, I have wanted Kyle to get the job as long as Lavar or agreed with Lavar about it dating back about 3 or 4 years. I’ve been clear about that.
 

If people can’t see that or don’t know, they’re either ignoring my posts or haven’t been in this forum long enough to know how much I wanted Kyle Smith to have this job and dating back to 2008, 09, 2010 wanted Cerrato fired and Morocco Brown hired. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by turtle28

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, A TRAIN 89 said:

As long as a fully-functioning FO is out in place, I don’t mind that Hurney is at the top. For too long, this operation has been bare bones and dysfunctional. 

That’s very true. I’m open to this working even though it probably won’t just like everything else Snyder does. I surely hope we’re all wrong though and this does work.

[turtle28]

26 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

We've been excited about new regimes before, and the fact that the leaks haven't stopped indicates that something around the team hasn't changed.  

What major leaks happened last year? It certainly wasn’t as bad as the previous two decades.