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Marty Hurney hired as WFT GM


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53 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

That was just off the top of my head but, I’d say drafting a 5th rounder who becomes All-Pro and helps lead your team to a Super Bowl appearance is pretty impressive. That’s something Washington hasn’t done since the 80s.

So, I just went over his drafts:

2002: Julius Peppers (DE), DeShaun Foster (RB), Will Witherspoon (OLB)

2003: Jordan Gross (LT)

2004: Chris Gamble (CB/WR), Keary Colbert (WR), Travelle Wharton (RT)

2005: Thomas Davis (OLB), Evan Mathis (OG), Javon Haye didn’t do much in Carolina but became a good DT for the Bucs

2006: DeAngelo Williams (RB), James Anderson (SLB), Will Montgomery (C) was just a back up C/G for Carolina but became a starter for Washington & then Denver

2007: Jon Beason (MLB), Ryan Khalil (C), Charles Johnson (RDE), Dante Rosario (solid blocking back up TE)

2008: Jonathan Stewart (RB), Dan Connor (back up MLB), Geoff Schwartz (G/RT), Gary Barnidge(TE) back up in Carolina but became a pro bowl TE in Cleveland 

2009: Captain Munnerlyn (CB)

2010: Brandon LaFell (WR), Greg Hardy (DE), Robert McClain (CB)

2011: Cam Newton (CB), Sione Fua (back up NT)

Also traded for Greg Olsen

2012: Luke Kuechly (MLB), Amini Silatou (G), Josh Norman (CB)

2017: Christian McCaffery (RB), Curtis Samuel (WR), Alex Armah (FB), Harrison Butker (K) obviously didn’t make the team because they had signed Gano after we cut him and Gano was great for them but Butker is one of the best kickers in the NFL right now.

2018: DJ Moore (WR), Donte Jackson (CB)

2019: Brian Burns (DE)

2020: Derrick Brown (NT), Yetur Gross-Matos (DE), Jeremy Chinn (SS)

Again, not too shabby.

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Almost the entire 2015 Panthers NFC Championship team that lost to the Broncos in the Super Bowl and almost beat them was drafted by Hurney and developed by Rivera and his staff. 

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12 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yeah bc drafting All-Pro corners in the 5th round happens all the time.

Norman was better than good IMO in 2016 then, he was only “good” in Washington in 2017 & 18 IMO. He was bad in 2019 as it was just clear he had given up and wanted out of DC.

He was good in Buffalo this year. He’s a starting corner on an team in the AFC Championship.

He was also good before his All-Pro season in 2015 in Carolina also. He started as a rookie in 2012, got hurt in 2013 but was a good starter in 2014 too.

I don't consider his 2018 all that good. And 2019 was the final straw. Last year? Not that great. This year? Average corner. He exists on name and past resume more than anything else right now IMHO.

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7 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Almost the entire 2015 Panthers NFC Championship team that lost to the Broncos in the Super Bowl and almost beat them was drafted by Hurney and developed by Rivera and his staff. 

This. I think it was Chris Russell who said don't be so negative,his drafts are better than people are saying.

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29 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

Sorry Thai, I apologize for any offense made by that comment or any other comment.

Wasn't trying to stir people's emotions.

I'll remain silent on this board, since emotions are high.

No! DON'T remain silent man. Your voice is well-needed! I'm just asking that you keep to the rules.

And it sucks to have to do my job.

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3 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Seriously, go look at this list. It's not great. He found SOME gems, but most do. Dig through the others though, they weren't even contributors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Panthers_draft_history 

Hardy, Anderson, Mathis, Norman, but my God the rest of that list... 

 

 

Almost every player he drafted was a key log in their Super Bowl run or was a starter before who had retired by the time those playoffs came around. Instead of just looking at those guys as misses, try to think about who may have already been infront of them as starters on the team.

A lot of those mid and late round picks didn’t end up becoming starters because Hurney had already drafted a starter at that position or signed on in FA so that mid and late round pick became a back up.

I know one thing, he hit big time on almost all of his first round picks - which Washington hasn’t most of the last 18 years. 
 

He drafted a pro bowl LT, a pro bowl QB, 3 pro bowl RBs with one of them being an All-Pro in Christian McCaffery, he traded for a pro bowl TE & drafted one who became a pro bowl TE on another team. He drafted a pro bowl G. He drafted another very good G too who also played both OT spots at time’s. He drafted an All-Pro center. He drafted a good RT. He drafted two very good WRs in the last few drafts. He drafted an all-pro corner and a few good #2 corners. He drafted an All-Pro maybe Hall of Fame DE with his first ever pick. He drafted an All-Pro MLB, he drafted a pro bowl OLB & a few other LBs who were very good. 
 

I’d put his draft record up as being pretty solid and most of the players he drafted and signed played in the 2015 Super Bowl & other playoffs games.

Edited by turtle28
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50 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

I don't consider his 2018 all that good. And 2019 was the final straw. Last year? Not that great. This year? Average corner. He exists on name and past resume more than anything else right now IMHO.

I guess we have a different level of analysis. 
 

Still, he had more good years than bad and 3 great years, to get that in the 5th round is amazing. I love Ioannidis but Norman was a better draft pick by Hurney than Ioannidis was by Gruden/McCloughan. 
 

To hit on a 5th round pick who was pro bowl level for 3 years and All-Pro one year is amazing.

You can downplay Norman all you won’t but I think he was an amazing draft pick by Hurney.

Edited by turtle28
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19 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I guess we have a different level of analysis. 
 

Still, he had more good years than bad and 3 great years, to get that in the 5th round is amazing. I love Ioannidis but Norman was a better draft pick by Hurney than Ioannidis was by Gruden/McCloughan. 
 

To hit on a 5th round pick who was pro bowl level for 3 years and All-Pro one year is amazing.

You can downplay Norman all you won’t but I think he was an amazing draft pick by Hurney.

But he didn’t have more good years than bad. If you’re a GM and your record is under .500 and you’ve been fired twice then no, you aren’t a good GM. 

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3 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Seriously, go look at this list. It's not great. He found SOME gems, but most do. Dig through the others though, they weren't even contributors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Panthers_draft_history 

Hardy, Anderson, Mathis, Norman, but my God the rest of that list... 

 

 

It is bad.  Anyone who looks at this resume and is excited for this guy is just rationalizing.

I mean for god sakes, he is 65.  His career is over.  He should be retiring, not starting a new gig.  We are essentially hiring a guy who has no future to be the future of the team. 

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10 minutes ago, offbyone said:

It is bad.  Anyone who looks at this resume and is excited for this guy is just rationalizing.

I mean for god sakes, he is 65.  His career is over.  He should be retiring, not starting a new gig.  We are essentially hiring a guy who has no future to be the future of the team. 

Hurney hired Ron and now he’s paying him back by hiring him. Last big payday before social security. 

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35 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

But he didn’t have more good years than bad. If you’re a GM and your record is under .500 and you’ve been fired twice then no, you aren’t a good GM. 

Thai and I were discussing Josh Norman.

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11 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

Hurney hired Ron and now he’s paying him back by hiring him. Last big payday before social security. 

Hurney is 65, he’s already hit social security. I get your joke though, funny. 😂 

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32 minutes ago, offbyone said:

It is bad.  Anyone who looks at this resume and is excited for this guy is just rationalizing.

I mean for god sakes, he is 65.  His career is over.  He should be retiring, not starting a new gig.  We are essentially hiring a guy who has no future to be the future of the team. 

He drafted a hell of a lot of pro bowlers and 3 or 4 All-Pro’s. We haven’t had one this century until Brandon Scherff this year.
 

Most of the players Hurney drafted were the core of players that went to the Super Bowl, won several division champs and played in multiple playoff games with some wins.

Is that bad?

Is our franchise record over the last 27 years better than that? 
 

The way I view it is he can be like a mentor to Kyle Smith for a few years and prepare him to be the next GM and teach him the things he doesn’t know already. That’s my hope at least.

Edited by turtle28
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2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Almost the entire 2015 Panthers NFC Championship team that lost to the Broncos in the Super Bowl and almost beat them was drafted by Hurney and developed by Rivera and his staff. 

That’s a pretty bold claim. Here are some guys on the team who weren’t drafted by Hurney.

 

LT Michael Oher (Baltimore)

LG Andrew Norwell (Carolina - not Hurney)

RG Trai Turner (Carolina - not Hurney)

RT Mike Remmers (Tampa Bay)

All-Pro FB Mike Tolbert (San Diego)

TE1 Greg Olsen (Chicago)

TE2 Ed Dickson (Carolina)

WR1 Ted Ginn (Miami)

WR2 Corey Brown (Carolina - not Hurney)

WR3 Jerricho Cotchery (New York Jets)

WR4 Devin Funchess (Carolina - not Hurney)

 

So basically, from the entire offense, he drafted Cam Newton, Ryan Kalil, and Jonathan Stewart. Good players, but they're still only 3 of the top 14 players on their offensive unit. 

Moving on to the defense then. 

 

DT Kawann Short (Carolina - not Hurney)

DT Star Lotulelei (Carolina - not Hurney)

DT Dwan Edwards (Baltimore)

DT Kyle Love (New England)

DE Kony Ealy (Carolina - not Hurney)

DE Jared Allen (Kansas City)

DE Mario Addison (Chicago)

LB Shaq Thompson (Carolina - not Hurney)

LB AJ Klein (Carolina - not Hurney)

S Kurt Coleman (Philly)

S Roman Harper (New Orleans)

CB2 Charles Tillman (Chicago)

CB3 Bene Benwikere (Carolina - not Hurney)

 

So on defense, basically the only key contributors Hurney drafted were Luke Kuechly, Thomas Davis, Josh Norman, and Charles Johnson. Again, great players, but it’s still only 4 out of their top 17 defensive players. 

All told, that’s 7 of the top 31 players on that team who were drafted by Hurney. Incidentally, for the record, he did also draft draft the punter (Brad Nortman) and the long-snapper (J.J. Jansen), but not the kicker (Graham Gano). So you can call it 9 out of 34 if you want. 

Edited by e16bball
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8 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

He drafted a hell of a lot of pro bowlers and 3 or 4 All-Pro’s. We haven’t had one this century until Brandon Scherff this year.
 

Most of the players Hurney drafted were the core of players that went to the Super Bowl, won several division champs and played in multiple playoff games with some wins.

Is that bad?

Is our franchise record over the last 27 years better than that? 
 

The way I view it is he can be like a mentor to Kyle Smith for a few years and prepare him to be the next GM and teach him the things he doesn’t know already. That’s my hope at least.

You are really cheerleading this one.  You seem to be going with the trust in Ron point of view.  It is hard to discuss if that is where you are.

Sure with that many drafts he has some good players, but rarely after the second round.  If you compare Hurney's record to other GMs, I think you will find it is very unimpressive.  The best anyone could say is his track record is average.

If a month ago someone asked you to name 10 GMs you would be excited to take the job does he make that list?   Is he even in the consideration of the list?  No way.  

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