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G08

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For all the stats being thrown out there about Darnald you have to take into account lack of talent on the Jets especially in the skilled positions.  He’s had no one to throw to for three years horrible blocking bad coaching.  You are taking Darnold for his talent, that sliver of potential, and an easy cap number.  

His value is not high. A 2nd for darnold that the jets are asking is too high.  If draft day went Jets take QB at #2.  Bears trade 2021 3rd for Darnold.  Draft a WR/OT in the first two rounds.  That would be good.   

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12 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Agreed..to me it'd be ideal if Pace had an agreement with either Jets or Jags GM's for Darnold/Minshew only if Bears are unable to secure their guy on draft night

If that's the case then get one of those guys and let them compete with Foles + draft a developmental guy and hope for the best

Yeah that would nice if there was a such thing as verbal agreement (or maybe there is).

I'm all for keeping 4 QBs on the roster every year until we finally find one.  I know that isn't the modern way (since most now only carry 2 active+1 PS) and it probably isn't ever going to happen.....but damn....we should. 

 

6 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

I’m going to guess that trading up for a QB in this draft is going to be more expensive than Pitt’s trade. There are a lot of teams in need, could easily see a bidding war starting.

I thought about this. But alot of teams looking for QBs in the same year is nothing new really.  Teams may be in need of a QB but for some it still comes down to value and what they are willing to give up and also betting on certain prospect QBs falling rather than paying the mountain to move up. 

 

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30 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Agreed..to me it'd be ideal if Pace had an agreement with either Jets or Jags GM's for Darnold/Minshew only if Bears are unable to secure their guy on draft night

If the Jets are drafting a QB at #2, they won't wait until draft day to move Darnold. They have literally no motivation to do that. 

10 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I'm all for keeping 4 QBs on the roster every year until we finally find one. 

That's a good idea. But Pace liked to keep Daniel and Bray around. Because Mitch didn't find them threatening, I guess. 

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48 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I'm actually in the middle of figuring out what it would take to move up to each pick and how much it would cost based on history and I'm gonna start a thread about it, but I'm not done yet.  

Since this came up while I'm working on it... I may as well ask.

At most, what round (if any) would you fellas be willing to move up to get Fields or Wilson?

I'm going back as far as pick #5. Is that good? 

#5:  
#6:  
#7:  
#8:  
#9:  
#10:  2020 1st rd,  2020 2nd rd, 2021 3rd rd
#11:  
#12:  + late 6th round:   2020 1st rd,  2020 late 5th, player 
#13:  
#14:  
#15:  
#16:  
#17:  
#18:  
#19:  
 

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8 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Isn’t a step back in surrounding talent (by comparison to the opposing competition) pretty much the norm for QBs coming from the top programs in college though? Lawrence, Fields and Jones are all going to experience that this year. Burrow did last year. Look at Deshaun Watson’s surrounding talent at Clemson. IMO, either a guy can play or he can’t. It’s certainly possible if not probable that having those weapons made Jones better. But, Smith and Waddle also had their best seasons under Jones. It’s entirely possible that he elevated their games too. It’s not like Jones himself was some no star walk-on. The lack of starting experience concern for Jones is real but it’s also entirely different than that for Mitch since Jones was on the bench behind a top 5 pick and Heisman finalist and not some bum who never made the NFL.

I’m super high on Jones, so impartiality when it comes to him may be proving difficult for me, but if this was 2008 and not 2021 he might be a reasonably consensus QB2. He fits all of the old QB prototypes as far as size, intangibles and accuracy go, but he’s not a dual threat nor does he have a mega ridiculous arm which is what everyone seems to want these days. He’s a QB built in the Eli Manning / Matt Ryan mold. But current trends aside - accurate, efficient, non-running QBs who make good decisions with the ball will always have a place in this league. 

A lot of the time it is, but it seems a lot of the standouts come from teams where they have to shoulder the load more than most. Rodgers had mediocre talent, Mahomes had little around him, Allen had a bad crew to work with, Wilson didn't have much from either program he had around him, etc. That being said it of course isn't a major indicator, several high profile talents have come from powerhouse programs too. And obviously I'm not turning my nose up at Lawrence because of talent around him. lol

 

I just like the idea of the guy being able to elevate average talent to more than it should be able to produce. To me if you can have someone like that and then put them in a talented roster the offense should be easier to elevate. I have no issue with him being a pocket passer, I like athletic guys who can open up an offense but the GOAT is about as athletic is we are. So if he can read defenses and show accuracy in this league then he is more than welcome here.


I'm partial to Trask much like you are Jones. I like how he WAS the offense (a major point of interest I had with Mahomes as well), they had a trash running attack so he constantly had to be efficient and produce even though there was little chance of drawing 8 in the box or bringing up the safeties. They had the 96th ranked rushing attack. I think if you keep ARob, Mooney, Miller, Kmet, and Montey you have some talent that he can work with. He has never had a rushing attack to take pressure off him, so I think that should help. It would allow us to focus on the OL as well.

 

5 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

Had Mitch panned out, we'd be in the same boat. At some point, the Bears will have to deal with a monetary outlay for quarterback. Doesn't bother me. If it forces Pace to not spend an inordinate amount of funds on the defense, the franchise is better off, anyway. 


Had Tru worked out we wouldn't even be having the conversation. I'm willing to pay big for a QB but they need to be worth it. Neither Tru nor Darnold have showed me they are worth $10 mil per year yet, so until we get someone who is I'm focusing on gathering as much talent elsewhere and drafting QBs as rookies. I'd like to overpay on one year deals when I can and when someone like Hicks stands out you pay them, and let others like Graham walk.

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16 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Since this came up while I'm working on it... I may as well ask.

At most, what round (if any) would you fellas be willing to move up to get Fields or Wilson?

I'm going back as far as pick #5. Is that good? 

#5:  
#6:  
#7:  
#8:  
#9:  
#10:  2020 1st rd,  2020 2nd rd, 2021 3rd rd
#11:  
#12:  + late 6th round:   2020 1st rd,  2020 late 5th, player 
#13:  
#14:  
#15:  
#16:  
#17:  
#18:  
#19:  
 

 

As the resident sack-o-matic here I am willing to go up to 5 since that's the highest you can go on your list.

 

tumblr_m7uiftdJnF1qcvnlco4_250.gif

 

Nagy is a major negative factor for me but for a franchise QB I'm willing to go big. If the offense craps the bed then fire them and bring in another guy to coach.

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9 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Had Tru worked out we wouldn't even be having the conversation. I'm willing to pay big for a QB but they need to be worth it. Neither Tru nor Darnold have showed me they are worth $10 mil per year yet, so until we get someone who is I'm focusing on gathering as much talent elsewhere and drafting QBs as rookies. I'd like to overpay on one year deals when I can and when someone like Hicks stands out you pay them, and let others like Graham walk.

You can't eliminate Darnold from consideration as a starter because of his contract. That's just short-sighted, and wrong. I mean, are you saying Kellen Mond is a better option, because he'll cost less?

Makes no sense. The Bears get Darnold, they see what they have. Then decide what to pay from there. 

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4 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Nagy is a major negative factor for me but for a franchise QB I'm willing to go big. If the offense craps the bed then fire them and bring in another guy to coach.

Just be aware. Here's the crux of the problem though. 

If you give up too much future assets now with a regime who may only have this year left and they get it wrong then that leaves the next regime with less assets to work with next year.  

The idea of this started because I was looking for a balanced way that Pace and Nagy could possibly move up in the draft and still get their guy without having to dig too deep into future assets.  But that's only my idea/opinion.  This is the only reason I said I was going up to pick #5 because even I thought that was going too far. But, again, that's just me. 

Are you saying you would be okay with Pace and Nagy selling the farm for either Fields or Wilson?

I'm just trying to get an idea where everyone stands on this. That's all.

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2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

You can't eliminate Darnold from consideration as a starter because of his contract. That's just short-sighted, and wrong. I mean, are you saying Kellen Mond is a better option, because he'll cost less?

Makes no sense. The Bears get Darnold, they see what they have. Then decide what to pay from there. 


I absolutely can. I'm saying he has done nothing to warrant the big deal yet. His cap hit is under $10 mil so I am fine with that. But part of the rookie benefit is that after Nagy fails we get a swing with someone who MAY be able to call an offense. Darnold isn't going to succeed here under him. Nagy as a playcaller is not better than Gase IMO. As a HC he is better but that's it.

 

It took them all four years to see that Tru isn't the answer, Nagy got "his guy" and the offense was atrocious, and now we are hoping Darnold comes in and lights it up? I'll take the under.

 

Mond would be better in the fact there is less waste getting him in the 4th or wherever. He has the ability to be a solid back up at least and can provide depth for 4 years at least. An OT in the 2nd (who we also get for four years) absolutely appeals to me more than 1 year with Darnold and Nagy working together. With any cap restrictions we could potentially get a cheaper QB to lock up ARob as well. I'd prefer to take that $7 mil savings from a first round pick at QB over Darnold towards ARob so we can try to work out a long-term deal. He isn't going to want to stay with Foles and Darnold being here for one more year with Nagy, but with a chance at a real QB he might. I'm looking at more than 2021, hoping Nagy elevates Darnold to a long-term option isn't just shortsighted, it's naive IMO.

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10 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Just be aware. Here's the crux of the problem though. 

If you give up too much future assets now with a regime who may only have this year left and they get it wrong then that leaves the next regime with less assets to work with next year.  

The idea of this started because I was looking for a balanced way that Pace and Nagy could possibly move up in the draft and still get their guy without having to dig too deep into future assets.  But that's only my idea/opinion.  This is the only reason I said I was going up to pick #5 because even I thought that was going too far. But, again, that's just me. 

Are you saying you would be okay with Pace and Nagy selling the farm for either Fields or Wilson?

I'm just trying to get an idea where everyone stands on this. That's all.

Right, plus if it was me I have been clear that Nagy would have been out of here after the 2020 season anyway. We'd be looking at the new prospects at QB WITH the new coach. We lack the sack-o-matic at the top of Halas Hall. We had to settle for a Sweaty Teddy. lol

I'd prefer to go up no more than 12th with your layout, it seems like the most reasonable deal. But I like Wilson and Fields enough I'd feel confident they could appeal to the next HC. The 2022 draft class hasn't appealed to me. I was one of the few who was way higher on the 2017 draft class than the 2018 and I am much higher on the 2021 draft class than the 2022 - unless some guys come out of the woodwork and ball out.

Wilson can fit into a ton of offenses, I think Fields would be an amazing fit for Daboll, and there are plenty of guys who should be able to fit their skills. So I will go all out for this one. Plus we may be able to tag and trade ARob, maybe Hicks can be dealt, or even get Miller in to replace a 4th or something.

 

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5 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

The 2022 draft class hasn't appealed to me.

+2 for bringing this up because I haven't seen this opinion anywhere else and I'm with you 100%. I don't know if it's just the COVID or what and this could change but right now it looks pretty grim and that is worrisome, even if Pace and Nagy are fired. 

it would be our luck wouldn't it.  Finally get a chance to hire a GM, HC, and QB at the same time with a ton ammo to work with and it happens on a down year for QB prospects and we end up with a dud because of it. 

9 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I'd prefer to go up no more than 12th with your layout, it seems like the most reasonable deal. But I like Wilson and Fields enough I'd feel confident they could appeal to the next HC.

I agree. IMO if it took a little more to get Wilson and Fields (say above Denver at #9) then go for it but don't go too deep. 

It should noted too though that if we have to settle for the 4th or 5th "best" QB in the draft, the next regime is not automatically tied to this years pick either. Just throwing that out there.

13 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Wilson can fit into a ton of offenses, I think Fields would be an amazing fit for Daboll, and there are plenty of guys who should be able to fit their skills. So I will go all out for this one. Plus we may be able to tag and trade ARob, maybe Hicks can be dealt, or even get Miller in to replace a 4th or something.

I can see where your coming from.

Essentially what you're saying is (correct me if I'm wrong) that this year is our best chance to get a future QB so we should do all we can get one. 

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1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I can just imagine the look on George's face if Pace and Nagy were to walk into his office and say "we wanna roll with Nick Foles and Sam Darnold this year and we think we can win a Super Bowl".

I'd love to be a fly on the wall haha.  

 

George would probably think that's the greatest idea ever because he doesn't know jack **** about good QB play. This Bears organization never has...

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20 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

+2 for bringing this up because I haven't seen this opinion anywhere else and I'm with you 100%. I don't know if it's just the COVID or what and this could change but right now it looks pretty grim and that is worrisome, even if Pace and Nagy are fired. 

it would be our luck wouldn't it.  Finally get a chance to hire a GM, HC, and QB at the same time with a ton ammo to work with and it happens on a down year for QB prospects and we end up with a dud because of it. 

I agree. IMO if it took a little more to get Wilson and Fields (say above Denver at #9) then go for it but don't go too deep. 

It should noted too though that if we have to settle for the 4th or 5th "best" QB in the draft, the next regime is not automatically tied to this years pick either. Just throwing that out there.

I can see where your coming from.

Essentially what you're saying is (correct me if I'm wrong) that this year is our best chance to get a future QB so we should do all we can get one. 

 

I was right on in 2017 and will happily eat crow if I'm wrong this time. ^^ That is EXACTLY what I am scared of. This is why I have been a broken record of going for strong class talents and double dipping. Last year I was going Claypool and Mims, I've tried to go OL other times, etc. But when the class is weak like I feel like 2022's QB class is, it only further elevates the need for us to go get a guy this year. Pace's opinion will likely vary but that is my own.

The 4th or 5th can be a stud. Mahomes was rated as the 4th through 6th by a number of professionals and by a ton of writers nationally. Tru, Watson, Kizer, Dobbs, Webb, Kaaya, Evans and Peterman all took turns by a number of people ahead of Mahomes. Even guys like Zierlien said it was a weak class and I was like, "WTH am I missing? There is no Luck or Manning but there's a ton of potential and physical gifts all around."

Nope, you're dead on. That's exactly what I am saying. Even if I don't want Pace to use future assets I can deal with it for a potential future franchise QB. As long as he shows promise we can still appeal to an offensive HC.

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