Future QB Discussion

[JAF-N72EX]

7 minutes ago, Epyon said:

One thing that concerns me about Watson is his whole apparent beef with Houston is that he wasn't included in the conversation to pick the next gm /coach

Which umm... He shouldn't be he's a player, not an owner. 

That kind of entitlement is deeply concerning. 

I wasn't even going to go down this route but I agree. I also think it's weird that he keeps on throwing out weird cryptic texts insinuating how unhappy he is.

It's like dude, you signed the extension to be there and now you're not going to honor your contract because they didn't call you first? (which is why said if we don't have a team built around him by year 5 then hes gone).

I also think it's weird how he felt the need to say "the Bears didn't even look at me" or whatever it was. What was the point of that? Some things are best kept indoors.  

That's some diva crap. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by JAF-N72EX

[topwop1]

I'm really torn on what I want the team to do this offseason at QB. In one sense I feel like they need to make a big splash but in another I feel like that usually never works out.

Pace & Nagy need to be creative here while keeping the team's and not their own best interests in mind.

Watson is a pipe dream and it probably wouldn't be a smart move to give up another boat load of picks unless Houston gives him away for as cheaply as they did Hopkins.. but unfortunately Bill O'Brien is no longer employed by them.

Ahh I really don't know. Right now I think you either stand pat and hope a good QB falls or you make a move for a young QB like Hurts that won't involve trading away a first round pick

[JAF-N72EX]

6 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I'm really torn on what I want the team to do this offseason at QB. In one sense I feel like they need to make a big splash but in another I feel like that usually never works out.

Pace & Nagy need to be creative here while keeping the team's and not their own best interests in mind.

Watson is a pipe dream and it probably wouldn't be a smart move to give up another boat load of picks unless Houston gives him away for as cheaply as they did Hopkins.. but unfortunately Bill O'Brien is no longer employed by them.

Ahh I really don't know. Right now I think you either stand pat and hope a good QB falls or you make a move for a young QB like Hurts that won't involve trading away a first round pick

QB1: Relatively cheap FA or Foles
QB2: 1st/2nd round pick

Or 

QB1: Foles
QB2: 1st/2nd round pick

Our defense plays up to it's potential and Pace/Nagy hit the jackpot and we have a good enough unit to make a below average starter look average and we make a run for it. 

Or

We win 5 games and let Pace and Nagy ride or die with the bed they made, leaving the next regime in a good position to rebuild the entire roster via a plethora of capital AND cap space.  

[JAF-N72EX]

The new regime would have everything at their disposal. 

They get to choose their own QB.

We would be a hot commodity for coaching candidates and won't have to worry about potential candidates not wanting to be here. 

We would be a huge attraction to free agents.

We have NEVER taken this approach!  EVER.  We keep making the same mistakes.

This would make for a quick rebuild and not one that would take YEARS to overcome like we have done in the past. 

[WindyCity]

13 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

The new regime would have everything at their disposal. 

They get to choose their own QB.

We would be a hot commodity for coaching candidates and won't have to worry about potential candidates not wanting to be here. 

We would be a huge attraction to free agents.

We have NEVER taken this approach!  EVER.  We keep making the same mistakes.

This would make for a quick rebuild and not one that would take YEARS to overcome like we have done in the past. 

There is no way that Pace and Nagy are going to sit on their hands and hope a good QB falls to 20.

There jobs are on the line and they aren’t going to be left in the lurch at QB.

A major move is coming and the future  picks be damned.

[Heinz D.]

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Trading lots of picks for a veteran player pretty much never works out in the long-run.

For a franchise QB? How often does that even happen?

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Forget about Mooney, Montgomfery, Kmet... The point is that acquiring Watson means the Bears won't have much room to further improve or replenish the roster.

Yes. That's the price you pay for having a franchise QB in the salary cap era. 

2 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I don't know about that though. They JUST gave Watson a HUGE extension. A new GM (trying to make a name for himself) is not going to trade Watson AND be without a chance to get Fields, or at least Wilson. 

They're not going to keep a big-name QB who is vocally rebelling against the franchise. He'd hold out if he felt he needed to. 

1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Not as much space if our QB is making 40M/yr and that cap space also comes with losing alot of talent that can't be obtained if said trade is made. 

What's the alternative? That is, provided you want to have a consistently winning team? Hit on QB draft picks every three to five years, then let them go to other franchises? Do you think that's even a viable philosophy?

1 hour ago, Epyon said:

One thing that concerns me about Watson is his whole apparent beef with Houston is that he wasn't included in the conversation to pick the next gm /coach

Which umm... He shouldn't be he's a player, not an owner. 

That kind of entitlement is deeply concerning. 

Don't you think that, all things Houston Texans considered, Watson might have...you know, a little bit of a point? Ownership hasn't done a great job following their own instincts, wouldn't you say? 

[JAF-N72EX]

2 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

There is no way that Pace and Nagy are going to sit on their hands and hope a good QB falls to 20.

There jobs are on the line and they aren’t going to be left in the lurch at QB.

A major move is coming and the future  picks be damned.

Of course their not gong to sit on their hands but they are still limited on what they can do this year.

Give me some [realistic] scenarios that they really do this year based on the limitations? 

I'll even say it right now that the effective cap space is going to be limited but not as bad as most think it is. So I'll even give you that much to work with. 

 

[WindyCity]

8 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Of course their not gong to sit on their hands but they are still limited on what they can do this year.

Give me some [realistic] scenarios that they really do this year based on the limitations? 

I'll even say it right now that the effective cap space is going to be limited but not as bad as most think it is. So I'll even give you that much to work with. 

 

They are going to trade up, spending future high picks, to secure a QB they can sell as the future.

If that doesn’t work they will make a desperate trade for a young veteran QB (Darnold or Hurts)

They have to secure someone they can sell as the future.

Gun to my head? I think they move to 9-11 and draft Lance.

[JAF-N72EX]

3 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

They're not going to keep a big-name QB who is vocally rebelling against the franchise. He'd hold out if he felt he needed to. 

Watson doesn't have that kind of leverage here. He just signed and extension. A new regime is not going to give him up with at least a chance at a top-3 QB in the draft as his replacement.  That would be a AWFUL start for them if they gave up Watson in exchange for the likes of Trask. 

7 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Not as much space if our QB is making 40M/yr and that cap space also comes with losing alot of talent that can't be obtained if said trade is made. 

What's the alternative? That is, provided you want to have a consistently winning team? Hit on QB draft picks every three to five years, then let them go to other franchises? Do you think that's even a viable philosophy?

What? Let them go? I legit don't even know what your saying here. You're taking this convo to left field.

Yes. That's exactly how teams are built now since the 2011 CBA.  Find a QB and build around them while they're still playing on their 4 year rookie contracts. If they're not good enough then hip em like Mitch, Rosen, Mariota, and Winston. 

[JAF-N72EX]

4 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

They are going to trade up, spending future high picks, to secure a QB they can sell as the future.

If that doesn’t work they will make a desperate trade for a young veteran QB (Darnold or Hurts)

They have to secure someone they can sell as the future.

Gun to my head? I think they move to 9-11 and draft Lance.

And if said QB doesn't work out and the Bears go 5-12 then the Pace and Nagy get fired and the next regime can trade him for a 2nd round pick just like Arizona did with Rosen. 

Ain't nobody in their right mind trading a high pick for Darnold and Hurts isn't going anywhere.

I agree they have to have something sell. But they can also stand pat and take trask in the first. Or at best trade up in exchange for a 5th to get him. Depending on how much they value him. And if the next regime sees no use in him then they can either trade him in exchange for a draft pick or keep him as a potential backup (if he is willing too to  take on that role). 

 

[WindyCity]

34 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

And if said QB doesn't work out and the Bears go 5-12 then the Pace and Nagy get fired and the next regime can trade him for a 2nd round pick just like Arizona did with Rosen. 

Ain't nobody in their right mind trading a high pick for Darnold and Hurts isn't going anywhere.

I agree they have to have something sell. But they can also stand pat and take trask in the first. Or at best trade up in exchange for a 5th to get him. Depending on how much they value him. And if the next regime sees no use in him then they can either trade him in exchange for a draft pick or keep him as a potential backup (if he is willing too to  take on that role). 

 

They just went 8-8 with bad QB play. They aren’t going 5-11 next year.

They aren’t going to sit back and take the 6th QB and a major reach.

They don’t give to ****s about next years picks and a steady build. There is a good chance they are not here. They have not incentive to not get the best QB regardless of cost.

 

[WindyCity]

If Pace and Nagy make a move at QB they aren’t getting fired until 2023.

The press conference will be about QB development and not wanting to interrupt the process.

Take it to the bank.

[WindyCity]

We now have to operate from the point of view that George wants to keep Pace and Nagy and will look for excuses to keep them. He used a 6 game losing streak as a positive.

If they go 8-8, but Trey Lance looks even average, they are not getting fired. They will get a year to see if their QB takes the next step. If he does they are made men. If he doesn’t, we’ll they bought themselves another year and probably a short extension.

It is what any of us would do.

[WindyCity]

I honestly believe if Pace had the ammunition he would trade for Deshaun or trade for the #2 pick.

He likely doesn’t and will settle for 9-11.

[Heinz D.]

11 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Gun to my head? I think they move to 9-11 and draft Lance.

Oh good lord, no. 

Not saying you're wrong...but let's all hope not. Draft another one year wonder, from an even smaller school? God help us all...

11 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Watson doesn't have that kind of leverage here. He just signed and extension. A new regime is not going to give him up with at least a chance at a top-3 QB in the draft as his replacement.  That would be a AWFUL start for them if they gave up Watson in exchange for the likes of Trask. 

11 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

I hypothesized that the only way the Bears could get Watson in a direct trade with the Texans is if they included players in the deal. #20 plus next years' number one, plus whatever else they throw in (George McCaskey would be nice)--well, that isn't going to get it done. But you add, say, Jaylon Johnson and Darnell Mooney to the mix? That might get the Texans' attention.

11 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Yes. That's exactly how teams are built now since the 2011 CBA.  Find a QB and build around them while they're still playing on their 4 year rookie contracts. If they're not good enough then hip em like Mitch, Rosen, Mariota, and Winston. 

So, you're advocating that Pace trade up? That makes more sense then getting Watson. I agree with that. It would be nice if that weird scenario involving the Dolphins would play out. Watson has been open to being traded to the Dolphins. The Texans get back Tua and the #3. The Texans would then be willing (probably) to listen to deals involving the #3. If the Bears threw in some players, it might not even cost them next year's first...

11 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Ain't nobody in their right mind trading a high pick for Darnold and Hurts isn't going anywhere.

 

Right on both accounts. Where I'd be happy to kick the tires with Darnold, I don't think Pace and Nagy can afford to count on him as being the solution, though. They'd have to draft a guy and have a competition. Which I can see them doing, and talking up what a great situation they have--but they'd be lying. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Heinz D.