JAF-N72EX Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: One YouTube video shouldn’t change anything for anyone. While this is true, the video does confirm that Wentz wasn't just terrible because of a bad supporting cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Trade for Mariota and then get locked and loaded for the draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Sugashane said: Agree on all points. For me the big issue is Nagy. He can't run an offense, he thinks he is far more intelligent than he really is. So why should we put a major financial investment in a guy when we don;t have a coach that will fit the offense to him AND we lack the capital to put talent around him. Wentz is talented, he was behind a crap OL and no one played that well around him. The three prior years weren't a fluke. But add in the issues above with the injury history and it is a gamble I don't care to make. He's fragile it seems, we have a mediocre OL and crap OTs, we would lose ARob so talent around him is down, and he's potentially mentally weak with a HC is borderline incompetent. It's just a bad mix even if he has solid potential and is absolutely talented. I tend to agree with this thinking but the argument that has been made in defense of Nagy these past 3 years is that he didn't have a good enough QB to make his offense work. Part of me wants the team to trade for Wentz who as I said before would be far and away the best QB talent that Nagy ever had as coach of the Bears..just so we can finally put all the talk of Nagy being some offensive guru to rest..as some still believe he is..which I guess has a slight chance of still being true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: Step 1: Replace Foles Step 2: Find a starter with upside Mariota does 1, but you would still have to go hard after a QB in the draft because he doesn’t do 2. You can’t go into the draft with Foles as the only QB option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, topwop1 said: I tend to agree with this thinking but the argument that has been made in defense of Nagy these past 3 years is that he didn't have a good enough QB to make his offense work. Part of me wants the team to trade for Wentz who as I said before would be far and away the best QB talent that Nagy ever had as coach of the Bears..just so we can finally put all the talk of Nagy being some offensive guru to rest..as some still believe he is..which I guess has a slight chance of still being true I don’t want to spend too much to know what I already know. Nagy sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Agreed. You don't trade anything for a backup player you could have signed easily as a FA just last year I don't hate Mariota but he's more or less another Mitch Trubisky Give me Minshew instead Minshew would be a good option as well. I think he would cost more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Not sure if it's just a conceit of Philly fans being sentimental but I think a large detail of a possible trade between Bears and eagles would be sending foles back to that mush-mouthed hell hole 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Carson Wentz, Eagles I’ve gone over Wentz multiple times before so I won’t spend a lot of time on it. Wentz costs the Eagles $34.67 million on the cap in 2021 and $33.8 million if traded before the 3rd day of the league year and $43.8 million if traded after that date. The cost to cut Wentz is $59.22 million prior to June 1 and $34.67 million if designated a June 1 cut. Wentz earns a $15 million guarantee for 2022 if he is on the roster on the 3rd day of the league year as well. A team acquiring Wentz would carry cap hits of $25.4 million, $22 million, $25 million, and $26 million so four years for and average of $24.6 million a year with $47.4 million guaranteed (Yes its less if the Eagles pay that $10 million but that would not makes sense for them from a cap standpoint). So this is a better contract to take on than the Goff contract but there are probably more questions with Wentz than Goff. Goff you know is serviceable. The Wentz we saw last year was not. A trade makes some sense for Philadelphia but they would be best off restructuring the deal for cap relief and seeing if he can be traded the following season or coached back to a higher level of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: Carson Wentz, Eagles I’ve gone over Wentz multiple times before so I won’t spend a lot of time on it. Wentz costs the Eagles $34.67 million on the cap in 2021 and $33.8 million if traded before the 3rd day of the league year and $43.8 million if traded after that date. The cost to cut Wentz is $59.22 million prior to June 1 and $34.67 million if designated a June 1 cut. Wentz earns a $15 million guarantee for 2022 if he is on the roster on the 3rd day of the league year as well. A team acquiring Wentz would carry cap hits of $25.4 million, $22 million, $25 million, and $26 million so four years for and average of $24.6 million a year with $47.4 million guaranteed (Yes its less if the Eagles pay that $10 million but that would not makes sense for them from a cap standpoint). So this is a better contract to take on than the Goff contract but there are probably more questions with Wentz than Goff. Goff you know is serviceable. The Wentz we saw last year was not. A trade makes some sense for Philadelphia but they would be best off restructuring the deal for cap relief and seeing if he can be traded the following season or coached back to a higher level of play. That they’re openly looking to trade him to the highest bidder suggests that they’ve already made the decision that they’re going to spend their developmental resources on Hurts or someone they draft at #6, so the restructure for relief angle doesn’t make a lot of sense. Also, what would be the incentive for Wentz to agree to restructure his deal without some kind of assurance that he’s going to be their starter (which he almost certainly wouldn’t get)? Do a favor for the team that’s telling you they’ve decided they don’t want you on the squad anymore? Outside of a retiring player like Brees nobody’s doing that. The reason PHI would potentially agree to pay the $10M bonus to facilitate a trade of Wentz despite it being less favorable for their cap is simple - to procure higher draft capital from a team (like ours) who also have cap problems. They’d have that leverage against us if it comes down to us and IND having comparable offers. Them giving us Wentz AND $10M in extra cap space is worth significantly more than them giving IND Wentz without it. $10M in cap space means one or two less players we’d need to clear to absorb Wentz and keep ARob. If the deals available were Wentz at $25M in 2021 for a 2 or Wentz at $15M in 2021 for a 2 and another pick or a player or something like that then there’s a really good argument that the latter is a better move for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 hours ago, topwop1 said: I tend to agree with this thinking but the argument that has been made in defense of Nagy these past 3 years is that he didn't have a good enough QB to make his offense work. Part of me wants the team to trade for Wentz who as I said before would be far and away the best QB talent that Nagy ever had as coach of the Bears..just so we can finally put all the talk of Nagy being some offensive guru to rest..as some still believe he is..which I guess has a slight chance of still being true I get the argument completely but when I-formation or 22 personnel or whatever works barely gets used? Then the playcaller is a moron. Plus while Tru isnt a good QB he regressed 2 straight years under Nagy, most of the offense did. I firmly believe Nagy is one of the biggest limiting factors to this team. People can believe Nagy is good, being wrong is fine if you're not being paid to be right. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said: While this is true, the video does confirm that Wentz wasn't just terrible because of a bad supporting cast. You can pick out 15 plays from any player and make him look however you want in a 3 minute video. Clips like that only show you what the person making the video wants to show you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: You can pick out 15 plays from any player and make him look however you want in a 3 minute video. Clips like that only show you what the person making the video wants to show you. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 My #1 goal is to head into the draft so desperate that we see one of the craziest draft day trades ever. Pick 2 or 3 on the clock and the Bears logo appears. That would be exciting. Then finding out Pace trades everything we will ever have. That will be so much more fun than talking ourselves into Wentz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 I want Pace going full Kevin Costner “Draft Day” on this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 32 minutes ago, WindyCity said: My #1 goal is to head into the draft so desperate that we see one of the craziest draft day trades ever. Pick 2 or 3 on the clock and the Bears logo appears. That would be exciting. Then finding out Pace trades everything we will ever have. That will be so much more fun than talking ourselves into Wentz. Fans have seemingly already decided that Wentz couldn’t possibly work out here if we make the move. Rational thought or optimism, even extremely guarded optimism, is already being dismissed as homerism and “Bear goggles.” Not that any player could ever live up to Bears fans’ expectations for perfection at the position... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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