dll2000 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 You guys can call me Dan btw. DLL is just my initials. Was a user name back in ancient AOL days that I kept. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2019 Wentz was good. I am not sure we can ding him for being bad for 2 years. He has mostly been good 2017-Exceptional 2018-Solid 2019-Good 2020-Horrendous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, abstract_thought said: But Pace and Nagy know their jobs are on the line. The ownership specifically addressed the QB position in that press conference. It feels like they're going to make a splash at that position whether it's good for the future or not. Which begs the question - why keep them around in the 1st place? That's the confusing part. I GUESS it indicates that the organization likes them both well enough that the hope is they'll be around for a lot longer. Maybe? So...unless the Bears stink next year, Pace and Nagy will be back? Which is why the Wentz trade talk is so weird. Doesn't a rookie give Pace and Nagy an even better chance of sticking around? What if they get Wentz, but can't fix him? 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: 2019 Wentz was good. I am not sure we can ding him for being bad for 2 years. He has mostly been good 2017-Exceptional 2018-Solid 2019-Good 2020-Horrendous it's the degree of drop off that's frightening, though. That sort of thing rarely happens. And when it does, it's usually a sign of something really bad going on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 9 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: 9 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Wentz still has to agree to any restructure though. NFL contracts aren’t contracts of adhesion. Any restructure that fortifies the Eagles’ ability to trade Wentz means Wentz accepting a significant paycut. Why would he ever agree to that? I already addressed this above. If the Eagles do want to trade him then they have to act fact and it's going to hard to do with what they are asking without a restructured deal already in place. You seem to be under the impression that the ball is Wentz's court. And if you believe that then, fine. I can't change that opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree. Wentz has guaranteed money coming to him no matter what. Only HE controls how or if he gives any of that up or changes how he gets it. He has a ton of incentive to do so for any team acquiring him because they’d undoubtedly be using that immediate savings to improve the team around him, but absolutely zero to do so in order to improve the Eagles’ return in a trade. The acquiring team will probably talk to him about a restructure before finalizing the trade anyway so I don’t see the fact that it hasn’t happened before the trade is agreed to having any kind of impact. PHI is the one with the financial deadline here on a Wentz trade - they have to be cap compliant before the bonus triggers. 9 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: 9 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Well first off, Wentz 2017-19 was better than anything Mitch has ever been. That's what people said about Cutler 10 years ago when they were enamored by his 4,000 yards passing and they also said the same thing about Foles less than a year ago. Bears fans need to stop comparing other QBs to the Bears terrible history of QBs in order to justify transactions. We are the low bar when it comes to QBs. You first drew the parallel to Mitch in talking about Nagy’s impact on Mitch’s performance. You asked why I thought things would be different for Wentz than with Mitch or Foles and I responded to say that I think so because I think Wentz is a better player. 9 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: 9 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Thirdly, even if he hadn’t, I’m not convinced that Nagy goes back to calling plays in 2021 after the offense was notably better under Lazor (especially the run game). I doubt he gives up play-calling. This is his last hurrah and he knows it. Last year his job was already in jeopardy and when the news broke about him "giving up play-calling" I didn't believe it one bit after just one game because I saw the same boneheaded plays and I knew there was no way Nagy's ego was going to put his job in the hands of someone else. Come to find out....that was true. He never really gave it up. There is no evidence to this being true. It’s fan speculation. 9 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: 9 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I have a lot of concerns about this staff’s ability to get anything out of anyone but I know without question that Wentz has high end NFL QB play in him. I don’t know that we can say that about anyone else reasonably available to us who could potentially be a long term option for us. It comes down to this IMO. Is Wentz better for us as a starter for one year rather than a realistic option in the draft (say Mac) or a another possible vet like Mariota or JG based on my opinions of those QBs? Yes. Is Wentz better than Foles in THIS offense? Yes. But how much better? I don't think the gap is big enough to get us over the top. Nevermind the injury risks. There's just not a lot of realistic options to fix the QB position that is going to make us a SB contender THIS YEAR. If a QB is not good enough put us over the top then they are not worth giving up a lot of capital and money for. After seeing Foles get benched for an underwhelming Trubisky last year I couldn’t disagree more about the likelihood Wentz would likely be a significant upgrade over him for 2021. I don’t disagree with you about the last point though, and I don’t advocate a huge investment of capital in any of the options other than Watson (not happening) or a move up into the top 5 (unlikely). Carr at a Stafford-like cost doesn't interest me at all because the upside isn’t high enough IMO to justify that cost. I don’t think anyone will pay anything close to the Eagles’ stated price. It’s an anchoring offer that’s not having the desired result for them. I’d personally give up 20 for Wentz IF it meant we got 37 or 70 back from PHI in return as well. That would put Wentz’s value around a mid-2nd rounder. For a guy with his overall resume and factoring in the recency aspect of it I think that’s a fair investment and amount of risk to take on. I’m personally not worried so much about the contract with Wentz because the post-2021 cap would allow us to cut him and absorb what’s left of that guaranteed hit if he stinks. I actually look at his post-trade contract the other way, in that if he reverts to the good play then 4/$98M is a complete bargain at current QB market rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: 2019 Wentz was good. I am not sure we can ding him for being bad for 2 years. He has mostly been good 2017-Exceptional 2018-Solid 2019-Good 2020-Horrendous Locked on Bears had a Philly beat reporter on that gave a lot of detailed info on Wentz saga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Locked on Bears had a Philly beat reporter on that gave a lot of detailed info on Wentz saga. I listened to that too, soured me a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: After seeing Foles get benched for an underwhelming Trubisky last year I couldn’t disagree more about the likelihood Wentz would likely be a significant upgrade over him for 2021. Wentz also got benched last year -for Hurts who was not overwhelming. Philly may still draft QB this year. Both Foles and Wentz got benched last year - because they stunk - and those are our two potential Bears QB whom we are paying a lot of money to and traded assets for and looking to trade for and pay a lot of money to - SMH. Does this sound right? Madness. I almost hope Love becomes a great player in GB. Just because. A small town in WI has been embarrassing this franchise for 30 years and counting now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, G08 said: I listened to that too, soured me a bit. Coles notes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, WindyCity said: Coles notes? Won't ever be the same athlete he was in 2017 Takes a ton of hits so he plays slower/less athletic than he is as the season progresses Selective with who he talks to in the locker room Arrogant and defensive in the film room (Carson you need to improve at this. "No I don't." Ok you're right Carson) Hates certain routes and will refuse to throw them (drag routes was the example) Stubborn with not wanting to "dumb down the offense" even if the rest of the offense is struggling 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Coles notes? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I almost hope Love becomes a great player in GB. Just because. He will. You can book it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, G08 said: Won't ever be the same athlete he was in 2017 Takes a ton of hits so he plays slower/less athletic than he is as the season progresses Selective with who he talks to in the locker room Arrogant and defensive in the film room (Carson you need to improve at this. "No I don't." Ok you're right Carson) Hates certain routes and will refuse to throw them (drag routes was the example) Stubborn with not wanting to "dumb down the offense" even if the rest of the offense is struggling The other side of the coin from my brain: He was a top tier athlete for his height and weight, even a notch below that is still very good His arm is still elite (throws it 60 yards with ease) I am hoping Nagy can nurture him to be a better person/leader/human John DeFilippo was "up his arse" as a QB coach, maybe that will get him back in line (or will create more issues?) Hopefully realizing his original team no longer wants him, BUT the new team that traded for him does value him will get him to be more of a team player. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 56 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Wentz has guaranteed money coming to him no matter what. Only HE controls how or if he gives any of that up or changes how he gets it. He has a ton of incentive to do so for any team acquiring him because they’d undoubtedly be using that immediate savings to improve the team around him, but absolutely zero to do so in order to improve the Eagles’ return in a trade. The acquiring team will probably talk to him about a restructure before finalizing the trade anyway so I don’t see the fact that it hasn’t happened before the trade is agreed to having any kind of impact. PHI is the one with the financial deadline here on a Wentz trade - they have to be cap compliant before the bonus triggers. You first drew the parallel to Mitch in talking about Nagy’s impact on Mitch’s performance. You asked why I thought things would be different for Wentz than with Mitch or Foles and I responded to say that I think so because I think Wentz is a better player. There is no evidence to this being true. It’s fan speculation. After seeing Foles get benched for an underwhelming Trubisky last year I couldn’t disagree more about the likelihood Wentz would likely be a significant upgrade over him for 2021. I don’t disagree with you about the last point though, and I don’t advocate a huge investment of capital in any of the options other than Watson (not happening) or a move up into the top 5 (unlikely). Carr at a Stafford-like cost doesn't interest me at all because the upside isn’t high enough IMO to justify that cost. I don’t think anyone will pay anything close to the Eagles’ stated price. It’s an anchoring offer that’s not having the desired result for them. I’d personally give up 20 for Wentz IF it meant we got 37 or 70 back from PHI in return as well. That would put Wentz’s value around a mid-2nd rounder. For a guy with his overall resume and factoring in the recency aspect of it I think that’s a fair investment and amount of risk to take on. I’m personally not worried so much about the contract with Wentz because the post-2021 cap would allow us to cut him and absorb what’s left of that guaranteed hit if he stinks. I actually look at his post-trade contract the other way, in that if he reverts to the good play then 4/$98M is a complete bargain at current QB market rates. Rapoport tweeted that Nagy had his hand in the play calling for the final 4-5 weeks of the year. It wasn't fan speculation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, G08 said: Hopefully realizing his original team no longer wants him, BUT the new team that traded for him does value him will get him to be more of a team player. Maybe. If everything that's been going on doesn't amount to a wake-up call for Wentz, then he's probably a lost cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 41 minutes ago, G08 said: Won't ever be the same athlete he was in 2017 Takes a ton of hits so he plays slower/less athletic than he is as the season progresses Selective with who he talks to in the locker room Arrogant and defensive in the film room (Carson you need to improve at this. "No I don't." Ok you're right Carson) Hates certain routes and will refuse to throw them (drag routes was the example) Stubborn with not wanting to "dumb down the offense" even if the rest of the offense is struggling Not wanting to dumb down the offense... in Chicago... that is going to be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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