Bobby's Tonyan's Open Letter.....

[CWood21]

21 hours ago, incognito_man said:

people wanted to draft worse TEs with a top 12 pick

there's no way GB would give up Tonyan for a 2nd round pick. That would be awful roster management

People want to do stupid things, does that mean it's a good idea?  IF my choices are pay Tonyan top TE money ($8M+) or roll with Deguara/Sternberger and an extra SRP, I'd probably do the latter.  He's got 1 year of big play.  I don't like the idea of spending that kind of coin on a TE who has produced for 1 year.  If he's interested in something a bit more reasonable like 3 years, $18M I'd probably be inclined to seek a long-term deal for him.

[Joe]

26 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

People want to do stupid things, does that mean it's a good idea?  IF my choices are pay Tonyan top TE money ($8M+) or roll with Deguara/Sternberger and an extra SRP, I'd probably do the latter.  He's got 1 year of big play.  I don't like the idea of spending that kind of coin on a TE who has produced for 1 year.  If he's interested in something a bit more reasonable like 3 years, $18M I'd probably be inclined to seek a long-term deal for him.

Isn't he an ERFA this year? I suggested that we give him and Lazard reasonable deals in a mock awhile back and got REAMED for even suggesting a contract in which he makes 5-6 mil a year.

Other than that, I'm not sure I trust Sternberger long-term simply because Tonyan has surpassed him on teh depth chart head-n-shoulders. Heck, we've heard little out of Sternberger for quite sometime which concerns me. I think you eventually see Deguara in a similar role, but bear in mind that he'll essentially be more of an H-back that will probably get his receptions when he leaks out into a wide open middle of the field.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, Joe said:

Isn't he an ERFA this year? I suggested that we give him and Lazard reasonable deals in a mock awhile back and got REAMED for even suggesting a contract in which he makes 5-6 mil a year.

Other than that, I'm not sure I trust Sternberger long-term simply because Tonyan has surpassed him on teh depth chart head-n-shoulders. Heck, we've heard little out of Sternberger for quite sometime which concerns me. I think you eventually see Deguara in a similar role, but bear in mind that he'll essentially be more of an H-back that will probably get his receptions when he leaks out into a wide open middle of the field.

No.  ERFA are for players with less than 3 years of accrued seasons.  Tonyan has been in the league for 3 years.  And your memory is a bit hazy if you think you suggested a $5M-$6M deal.

You proposed a 2 year, $18M deal for Tonyan and a 3 year, $30M deal for Lazard.  Both of which are overpays then, and still now.

[Joe]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

No.  ERFA are for players with less than 3 years of accrued seasons.  Tonyan has been in the league for 3 years.  And your memory is a bit hazy if you think you suggested a $5M-$6M deal.

You proposed a 2 year, $18M deal for Tonyan and a 3 year, $30M deal for Lazard.  Both of which are overpays then, and still now.

Still, the fact that I proposed a contract in which Tonyan is paid more than what he is currently making is really what triggered people, nevermind the numbers. I think one more year of solid production for those two and people will change their mind about how much I proposed. If Lazard doesn't have his medical emergency, his numbers are much higher and not solely because he played more games and/or had more opportunities.

[CWood21]

Just now, Joe said:

Still, the fact that I proposed a contract in which Tonyan is paid more than what he is currently making is really what triggered people, nevermind the numbers. I think one more year of solid production for those two and people will change their mind about how much I proposed. If Lazard doesn't have his medical emergency, his numbers are much higher and not solely because he played more games and/or had more opportunities.

No, it's the ridiculous numbers you threw out there.  Even if it was a short-term deal, your proposed Tonyan extension would have him as the T-4th highest paid TE in the NFL along Kyle Rudolph.  That's why the extension was reamed.  RFAs don't have leverage because there are only a limited number of teams who are willing to sign him to a long-term contract AND give up a pick in order to do so.  How many teams do you think are willing to pay at least a SRP AND give him an AAV north of $6M+?  There probably aren't many teams.

[Joe]

3 hours ago, CWood21 said:

No, it's the ridiculous numbers you threw out there.  Even if it was a short-term deal, your proposed Tonyan extension would have him as the T-4th highest paid TE in the NFL along Kyle Rudolph.  That's why the extension was reamed.  RFAs don't have leverage because there are only a limited number of teams who are willing to sign him to a long-term contract AND give up a pick in order to do so.  How many teams do you think are willing to pay at least a SRP AND give him an AAV north of $6M+?  There probably aren't many teams.

You're still missing my point, the numbers themselves were never the issue because of the FA status of the player. I would also posit that Tonyan's better than Rudolph. 

[vegas492]

4 hours ago, Joe said:

Isn't he an ERFA this year? I suggested that we give him and Lazard reasonable deals in a mock awhile back and got REAMED for even suggesting a contract in which he makes 5-6 mil a year.

Other than that, I'm not sure I trust Sternberger long-term simply because Tonyan has surpassed him on teh depth chart head-n-shoulders. Heck, we've heard little out of Sternberger for quite sometime which concerns me. I think you eventually see Deguara in a similar role, but bear in mind that he'll essentially be more of an H-back that will probably get his receptions when he leaks out into a wide open middle of the field.

Gonna beat this dead horse just a little.

Those were not "reasonable deals".  As illustrated above.

I don't think anyone is opposed to paying more for Tonyan and Lazard.  It was the contracts given to both which were unreasonable.

But, let's hope their play in this postseason and next year make your deals look reasonable!

[CWood21]

7 hours ago, Joe said:

You're still missing my point, the numbers themselves were never the issue because of the FA status of the player. I would also posit that Tonyan's better than Rudolph. 

He's probably a better play right now than Rudolph, but he didn't have Rudolph's resume when Rudolph inked that extension.

[rthom348]

On 1/14/2021 at 2:06 PM, incognito_man said:

people wanted to draft worse TEs with a top 12 pick

there's no way GB would give up Tonyan for a 2nd round pick. That would be awful roster management

For real. I was like... What?? He hit on a young tight end that we've long coveted. Why give up on him

[Donzo]

Good stuff.

[oldmansmell]

Tears, but still why we debating contract numbers? Someone with a dream that made that dream happen, and will have to deal with the repurcussions of that dream when it doesn't work out perfectly - still - Packers are making 2020 for me. 

[ThatJerkDave]

Well.  Here is another guy that I hope we keep around for a long time.

 

Tonyan and Chandon Sullivan are two interesting RFAs that we have.  Both were undrafted.  Perhaps we give one the first and the other the second round designation.  I think both would garner interest on the open market, I do wonder if anyone would be willing to offer up their precious draft picks for them though.  If we second round both of them to save money, and they are signed away, we would only get a second and a third:  

Quote

Upgraded tender: If a team places a first-round tender on a player who was selected outside of the first round, it can only receive a second-round pick as compensation for any of its other RFAs who were first-round draft picks. The same is true for the second-round tender -- if a team uses it on a player drafted in the third round or lower, it can only receive a third-round pick for any other second-round RFA it intends to tender. As an example, the Saints are reportedly using a first-round RFA tender on QB/RB/WR/TE Taysom Hill this offseason. Had New Orleans had any RFAs who were former first-round picks, it could only receive a second-round selection in return for a declined offer sheet.

It will be interesting to see, as we are right up against the cap, and there are teams that have a lot of money, and can afford to be buyers this offseason.  I don't think we will be able to afford to match the contract on an original round/right of first refusal designation for either player.  

[AlexGreen#20]

On 1/17/2021 at 9:54 AM, ThatJerkDave said:

Well.  Here is another guy that I hope we keep around for a long time.

 

Tonyan and Chandon Sullivan are two interesting RFAs that we have.  Both were undrafted.  Perhaps we give one the first and the other the second round designation.  I think both would garner interest on the open market, I do wonder if anyone would be willing to offer up their precious draft picks for them though.  If we second round both of them to save money, and they are signed away, we would only get a second and a third:  

It will be interesting to see, as we are right up against the cap, and there are teams that have a lot of money, and can afford to be buyers this offseason.  I don't think we will be able to afford to match the contract on an original round/right of first refusal designation for either player.  

Who has a lot of money?

If somebody was willing to give us a 2nd round pick for either of those guys at much more than the tendered value long term, we should laugh our *** all the way to the podium.

[pgwingman]

Quote

 a team places a first-round tender on a player who was selected outside of the first round, it can only receive a second-round pick as compensation for any of its other RFAs who were first-round draft picks. 

What does that mean? How would a first round pick become an RFA? I thought the rookie wage scale effectively signs them to 4 year deals with a 5th year option.

I guess maybe someone like Haskins, who has already been released, could resign a 1 year deal and become a RFA?

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, pgwingman said:

What does that mean? How would a first round pick become an RFA? I thought the rookie wage scale effectively signs them to 4 year deals with a 5th year option.

I guess maybe someone like Haskins, who has already been released, could resign a 1 year deal and become a RFA?

Any NFL player who has fewer than 3 accrued seasons and an expiring contract is an Exclusive Rights Free Agent. The team can resign at the league minimum and the player can't negotiate with other teams until the home team has waived the player's rights. 

Any player who has 3 seasons and an expiring contract is a restricted free agent. The home team can place claims on these players called "Tenders". 

When the home team tenders a player, they agree to a 1 year contract for a league specified amount of money. If another team wants to sign the tendered player, they have to submit an "Offer Sheet" to the league and the player. The offer sheet will feature the terms, length, and amount of the contract. 

The home team will then have the option to match the offer sheet. If they decide to match the offer sheet, the home team gets the player for the same contract as the offer sheet. If the home team refuses the offer sheet, the player signs with the team who wrote the offer sheet.

In addition to the right to match the offer sheet, the tenders that teams place on players come in 4 flavors:

First round tender: in addition to the right to offer, the poaching team has to give the home team a first round pick.

Second round tender: the same as the first round tender, but instead a second round pick is conveyed.

Original round tender: the same as the first, but the pick conveyed is equivalent to the round that the tendered player was drafted.

Right of first refusal tender: no draft pick is conveyed. 

Haskins is a perfect example, not enough accrued seasons to be an unrestricted free agent. If he signs a year deal and then expires, he'll be an RFA. 

So a player drafted in the 5th round can still have a first round tender placed on them. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by AlexGreen#20