flyguy1609 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lions017 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Thanks, I hate it. Definitely wanted someone with more experience. I'd rather have some stability and experience at the GM level and then take a swing on a less experienced coach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 When we talk about "experience at HC", do you guys count someone who has had the interim role like a Dan Campbell or Darrell Bevell as "experienced"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, Lions017 said: Thanks, I hate it. Definitely wanted someone with more experience. I'd rather have some stability and experience at the GM level and then take a swing on a less experienced coach. Experience is hard to come by for GMs. When you fail, you dont get second chances and good GMs are retained. There were pipe dreams with Schneider, but other than that they all are inexperienced. I am not sure I love the hire, but I can't really knock it either. Only way to tell is watch it play out. And I hope they can get a coach soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superduperman Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) I wish him the best but I'm not at all optimistic. The issue with the experience isn't that it automatically makes a GM better or worse at what they do. The problem is, I was looking for someone who could break the Lions out of the pattern they have always been in under the Fords (or show the Fords are ready to break it - semantics) That pattern, as I've said before, is putting other things over winning. Corporate prestige, advertising opportunities and other business, appearances as a great organization in community relations, etc. The other part of that pattern is the concentration of power in the organization being in the hands of non-football people like Rod Wood. A GM coming from a position as director of college scouting, getting his big break, is not going to face down SFH and Wood and all the VPs and steer the team in a different direction when it comes down to crucial decisions. For instance, I now consider it 100% guaranteed that Stafford will stay on the team. A first-time GM isn't going to have the cache to swing a deal like that, or to convince the Fords and Spielman that trading such a swell guy is in their best interest. Stafford staying means no rebuild, which means no QB at pick #7. I think that would be a big mistake, and it's what I now expect. Edited January 14, 2021 by Superduperman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy1609 Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 I don’t mind the move I’m going let it play out. I agree it means Stafford is coming back next yr. I mean the rams have hit in with some of there later picks so it could be a good move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Superduperman said: I wish him the best but I'm not at all optimistic. The issue with the experience isn't that it automatically makes a GM better or worse at what they do. The problem is, I was looking for someone who could break the Lions out of the pattern they have always been in under the Fords (or show the Fords are ready to break it - semantics) That pattern, as I've said before, is putting other things over winning. Corporate prestige, advertising opportunities and other business, appearances as a great organization in community relations, etc. The other part of that pattern is the concentration of power in the organization being in the hands of non-football people like Rod Wood. A GM coming from a position as director of college scouting, getting his first big break, is not going to face down SFH and Wood and all the VPs and steer the team in a different direction when it comes down to crucial decisions. For instance, I now consider it 100% guaranteed that Stafford will stay on the team. A first-time GM isn't going to have the cache to swing a deal like that, or to convince the Fords and Spielman that trading such a swell guy is in their best interest. Stafford staying means no rebuild, which means no QB at pick #7. I think that would be a big mistake, and it's what I now expect. I'm not going to bang the drum for Brad Holmes but I am going to have to disagree with you on some of this stuff. Holmes was the director of college scouting for the rams. They've done a pretty decent job overall in scouting and drafting guys, especially in the middle rounds. Cam Akers, Van Jefferson, Cooper Kupp, etc. They've hit on a bunch of their 1st rounders - Goff, Gurley, Donald. A key issue with our team has been a lack of talent. It looks like Holmes is someone that might be able to help right that ship. Where I do agree with you is that he's not going to come in and completely shake up the franchise. What it sounds like to me is that Spielman is almost the de facto GM and that Holmes is going to be the personnel guy. The organization is going to be moving in the direction that Chris Spielman wants to with the support of ownership and upper management. With the amount of work that we do have on this team, I feel like we are more likely to trade down from #7 to acquire more picks towards the rebuilding effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenhater Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Don't like it. I don't think he is the best or the home run candidate we need. I don't like that we basically just handed the Rams (a team with have to compete with) two 3rd round picks. I don't like the fact that this seems to be a pick partially based on the "Lions Alumni" liking because they personally know him. 90% of those former players are trash and know nothing about running a football team. I don't like that he has not real attachment to a head coach that we are interested in. I don't like it because I would have preferred Dodds. I don't like it that I don't like it, but I hope i'm wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superduperman Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: What it sounds like to me is that Spielman is almost the de facto GM and that Holmes is going to be the personnel guy. Oh Jesus Christ I hope not. That would make it many times worse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenhater Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Actually I wonder if Marvin Lewis is going to be the HC...I just threw up in my mouth a bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenhater Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Millenhater said: Don't like it. I don't think he is the best or the home run candidate we need. I don't like that we basically just handed the Rams (a team with have to compete with) two 3rd round picks. I don't like the fact that this seems to be a pick partially based on the "Lions Alumni" liking because they personally know him. 90% of those former players are trash and know nothing about running a football team. I don't like that he has not real attachment to a head coach that we are interested in. I don't like it because I would have preferred Dodds. I don't like it that I don't like it, but I hope i'm wrong... Just read that he led the Rams social justice efforts...I've gone for not liking this to straight up hating it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 25 minutes ago, Superduperman said: I wish him the best but I'm not at all optimistic. The issue with the experience isn't that it automatically makes a GM better or worse at what they do. The problem is, I was looking for someone who could break the Lions out of the pattern they have always been in under the Fords (or show the Fords are ready to break it - semantics) That pattern, as I've said before, is putting other things over winning. Corporate prestige, advertising opportunities and other business, appearances as a great organization in community relations, etc. The other part of that pattern is the concentration of power in the organization being in the hands of non-football people like Rod Wood. A GM coming from a position as director of college scouting, getting his big break, is not going to face down SFH and Wood and all the VPs and steer the team in a different direction when it comes down to crucial decisions. For instance, I now consider it 100% guaranteed that Stafford will stay on the team. A first-time GM isn't going to have the cache to swing a deal like that, or to convince the Fords and Spielman that trading such a swell guy is in their best interest. Stafford staying means no rebuild, which means no QB at pick #7. I think that would be a big mistake, and it's what I now expect. You do realize a GM isn't going to change the organizational structure right? They brought in Spielman as a go between, which is different than in the past and the only thing that gives me hope. The biggest knock I have on him is that he spent his entire career with one organization. I would prefer someone who has seen multiple organizations and ways of doing things which will help them pick and choose what they like. But I don't think its a detriment to his abilities, just might be tougher to adapt when things aren't what he is used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 16 minutes ago, Millenhater said: Don't like it. I don't think he is the best or the home run candidate we need. I don't like that we basically just handed the Rams (a team with have to compete with) two 3rd round picks. I don't like the fact that this seems to be a pick partially based on the "Lions Alumni" liking because they personally know him. 90% of those former players are trash and know nothing about running a football team. I don't like that he has not real attachment to a head coach that we are interested in. I don't like it because I would have preferred Dodds. I don't like it that I don't like it, but I hope i'm wrong... Its not like we are giving the Rams our picks. They are comp picks, and anyone we hired that isn't white would end up being picks to some team (so maybe thats your gripe is you wanted a white head coach given your distaste with him being a leader in social fronts). The other gripes I can see, but its not like he was only interviewed by us. He was a finalist for a few places including Atlanta, so he was highly regarded amongst teams around the league as a GM candidate. Yes Dodds would likely have been a better option, but not sure that is a home run either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superduperman Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said: You do realize a GM isn't going to change the organizational structure right? They brought in Spielman as a go between, which is different than in the past and the only thing that gives me hope. The biggest knock I have on him is that he spent his entire career with one organization. I would prefer someone who has seen multiple organizations and ways of doing things which will help them pick and choose what they like. But I don't think its a detriment to his abilities, just might be tougher to adapt when things aren't what he is used to. Don't patronize me. The power level and experience of the people in any organization alter the functioning of the team. Official structure and titles only go so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenhater Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Its not like we are giving the Rams our picks. They are comp picks, and anyone we hired that isn't white would end up being picks to some team (so maybe thats your gripe is you wanted a white head coach given your distaste with him being a leader in social fronts). The other gripes I can see, but its not like he was only interviewed by us. He was a finalist for a few places including Atlanta, so he was highly regarded amongst teams around the league as a GM candidate. Yes Dodds would likely have been a better option, but not sure that is a home run either. I don't care about his skin color. I think it is a racist and ridiculous new policy. Having said that he just feels like a bland candidate. Sometimes that end up being best, but I feel like this is the same path we always go. I think McVay is what makes that team really good. I mean if Les Snead was available would you want him? I wouldn't. I hope i'm wrong on this, it just seems like the same boring, bland mistakes this franchise always makes. That's why we always hover around slightly above average to bad. I just really wanted to swing for the fences on this one. Again hopefully I'm wrong. I think his Head Coaching choice will go a long way in changing my mind. I just don't know who he is linked to that gets me excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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