Lions hiring Brad Holmes as General Manager and Executive Vice President

[BZski]

13 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

Do you think the Lions will be in a position to be a playoff team by next season? Because that is when Stafford's contract is up. Do you see the Lions re-sgining a 35 yr old Stafford to another top $$ contract if they are not in position to win now? 

I love Stafford. I agree that our issues don't fall squarely on him. But I'm also quite aware that we are not one or two pieces away. We are YEARS away. Prime years for Stafford. Prime years he could be playing for superbowls with teams that are in position to win now. And I think he deserves that. 

I also think the Lions many holes could be addressed better with the $33 million we are paying Stafford to wait around for a miracle at the moment. 

Stafford has a good 5 years left which is a long time in the NFL. We’re not in bad cap situation and if we release James, Trufant, Christian Jones, Daniels, Coleman we will have about 30 mil in cap space. That’s a lot of space to fix a defense to just average and sign a WR in FA. I would even extend Stafford honestly to get more cap space. I don’t even think we should consider drafting a QB high until after Staffords 35 yr old season (3 seasons from now)

[Nnivolcm]

@BZski

Are you Kelly Stafford?

[Superduperman]

1 hour ago, Nnivolcm said:

@BZski

Are you Kelly Stafford?

I think he wishes he was

[Kip Smithers]

Lol then they hire Dan ‘The Man’ Campbell as their HC.

[MortexLion]

Funny thing is No one wants to come to Detroit unless Staffords here..so

[MortexLion]

Id be ok with drafting a QB to sit and Learn from Stafford before showing him the door for draft stock..32 years old with 2 years left on his contract....plus for any lions fans its hard to see/hear anyone talk about him leaving because it show's when he's not out on the field...oh and for the Stafford haters ... yeah I'll go to my grave laughing at people that think Jared Goff or Jimmy G are better QB's then Stafford.

[diehardlionfan]

On 1/15/2021 at 10:08 PM, Sllim Pickens said:

I agree, they don't need to trade him.  But they also have gone through four coaches and three GMs with him and nobody is building a winner with him.  Get something for him and try a new path.  We have been reliving the same season for 10 years for the most part.  And the reason those journeyman QBs are relevant is that Stafford has produced barely more wins than they have.  Its not all on him but his below .500 winning percentage means something.  

The Lions have not had anything close to a competent team while Stafford has been in Detroit. It’s pretty hard for Stafford to win football games when the GM’s have failed to draft talent. 

GM’s have drafted THREE first round tight ends during his time. Other first round picks, Jarred Davis, Laken Thomlinson failed in Detroit. How many draft selections wasted on ineffective RB’s? 

Reliving the same season is totally on the management and coaches. Trade Stafford, keep Stafford but don’t blame Stafford.

[diehardlionfan]

On 1/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, BZski said:

NOWAY! Stafford isn’t the problem. It takes to long to find a franchise QB as good as Stafford. Build around him and let him win in Detroit. The NFL is setup for quick turnarounds. Just get an average D and running game around Stafford and Lions are a playoff team.

It amazes me that some fans expect Stafford to win games by himself. He’s never had an adequate running game and has been surrounded by incompetent management his entire career. Three first round tight ends. A host of running backs that couldn’t stay healthy. A revolving door on the oline. Great picks like Tabor, Tavai etc. Terrible defence the last few years which puts excessive pressure on the offence to score. Combine this with the revolving doors for coaches and how could anyone have higher expectations for him. How many OC’s has he seen. How many new systems. 

The problem with trading Stafford is it simply compounds problems. Detroit wasn’t set up to draft a franchise QB when they selected him and they aren’t set up to draft a QB as a starter now. 

[Sllim Pickens]

30 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

The Lions have not had anything close to a competent team while Stafford has been in Detroit. It’s pretty hard for Stafford to win football games when the GM’s have failed to draft talent. 

GM’s have drafted THREE first round tight ends during his time. Other first round picks, Jarred Davis, Laken Thomlinson failed in Detroit. How many draft selections wasted on ineffective RB’s? 

Reliving the same season is totally on the management and coaches. Trade Stafford, keep Stafford but don’t blame Stafford.

I'm not blaming Stafford, I am just saying we can get similar results with someone else rather easily because we have a dumpster fire organization.  I always hope we can build around Stafford but I do understand a new coach and a new GM may want their guy to put their chips on.  If Fields or Wilson fall to us at 7 and they want to draft them, I wouldn't blame them.  The point is we can't get much worse record wise without Stafford, so if he can net more picks and we get another young QB to develop, than I am all for it. But I do not blame him solely for the failures of the Lions in his tenure. 

[Superduperman]

2 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

It amazes me that some fans expect Stafford to win games by himself. He’s never had an adequate running game and has been surrounded by incompetent management his entire career. Three first round tight ends. A host of running backs that couldn’t stay healthy. A revolving door on the oline. Great picks like Tabor, Tavai etc. Terrible defence the last few years which puts excessive pressure on the offence to score. Combine this with the revolving doors for coaches and how could anyone have higher expectations for him. How many OC’s has he seen. How many new systems. 

The problem with trading Stafford is it simply compounds problems. Detroit wasn’t set up to draft a franchise QB when they selected him and they aren’t set up to draft a QB as a starter now. 

Exactly, so the smart thing to do is have a QB on a rookie contract and give yourself 4 years to set up the team in a better fashion. What you Stafford stans (still amazed there are any left) fail to realize is that it's not about Stafford's talent as a QB and more about running the Lions as a competent NFL franchise.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Superduperman

[diehardlionfan]

On 1/19/2021 at 12:23 PM, Superduperman said:

Exactly, so the smart thing to do is have a QB on a rookie contract and give yourself 4 years to set up the team in a better fashion. What you Stafford stans (still amazed there are any left) fail to realize is that it's not about Stafford's talent as a QB and more about running the Lions as a competent NFL franchise.

Well what you throw everything out the window folks forget is drafting a QB is no guarantee of success and putting a rookie into a position to fail is a terrible approach. With or without Stafford the team isn’t competitive. If they choose to move on from Stafford they should at least wait to draft a QB until he can take the field with some chance of success.

I agree it’s about running a competent franchise. Where we differ is what that means and we’ve seen what happens when you throw a young inexperienced QB into an undesirable position.

By all means trade Stafford for the draft capital. Then sign a free agent to run the offence while the young QB learns. That allows two free agent periods and two drafts before you expect the young QB to take the reins.

It should be obvious that repeating the mistakes of the past is a recipe for failure.

[diehardlionfan]

On 1/19/2021 at 10:18 AM, Sllim Pickens said:

I'm not blaming Stafford, I am just saying we can get similar results with someone else rather easily because we have a dumpster fire organization.  I always hope we can build around Stafford but I do understand a new coach and a new GM may want their guy to put their chips on.  If Fields or Wilson fall to us at 7 and they want to draft them, I wouldn't blame them.  The point is we can't get much worse record wise without Stafford, so if he can net more picks and we get another young QB to develop, than I am all for it. But I do not blame him solely for the failures of the Lions in his tenure. 

If they draft a young QB I hope it’s with the expectations of him developing. I don’t want to see a repeat of drafting a young QB and putting him in an undesirable position.

Trade Stafford, get the draft capital, sign a FA QB, draft a youngster and let him sit. The Lions as constructed will do more harm than good to a rookie QB.

They could also move Stafford, let Chase Daniel start for a year then select their QBOTF in next years draft. 

I don’t have any problem with them trading Stafford. I have a problem with him taking any blame for the Lions lack of success and I shudder at the prospect of the franchise repeating the same old mistakes. 

One of the historical problems of this franchise is the inability to develop players. Failing to look at past practice and their decades of failure will simply allow them to stumble into the same old mistakes.

[Sllim Pickens]

14 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

If they draft a young QB I hope it’s with the expectations of him developing. I don’t want to see a repeat of drafting a young QB and putting him in an undesirable position.

Trade Stafford, get the draft capital, sign a FA QB, draft a youngster and let him sit. The Lions as constructed will do more harm than good to a rookie QB.

They could also move Stafford, let Chase Daniel start for a year then select their QBOTF in next years draft. 

I don’t have any problem with them trading Stafford. I have a problem with him taking any blame for the Lions lack of success and I shudder at the prospect of the franchise repeating the same old mistakes. 

One of the historical problems of this franchise is the inability to develop players. Failing to look at past practice and their decades of failure will simply allow them to stumble into the same old mistakes.

I feel like this is a 1990s and older view on the QB position.  Very few QB's these days, especially those drafted in the top 10 sit a year, and very rarely does that have a major impact on their ability to be great.  The ones who fail, fail because of motivation/work ethic.  The ones who succeed do so because they have talent and the right mental makeup for the position.  I don't think there is a right vs wrong way to develop a QB, it all depends on the QB.  Big Ben, Eli, Peyton, Brees, Watson, Wilson, Mayfield, Allen, Kyler, Burrow, etc all have played right away.  Brady sat for half a year before taking over the role. Yes Haskins played and stumbled but he seems to be a head case not talent based.  He was not evaluated properly and thats the risk you take when drafting a QB.  

I don't have a problem making the rookie battle for snaps so having someone on the team capable of starting is good, but if they are talented enough they should play. 

This offense is not far away.  We have a relatively strong O line with a need to upgrade at RT.  We have a solid offense to allow a rookie to put up numbers similarly to Herbert.  We have a solid TE to help support a young QB and we have RBs that have.  

[Shanedorf]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

This offense is not far away.  We have a relatively strong O line with a need to upgrade at RT.  We have a solid offense to allow a rookie to put up numbers similarly to Herbert.  We have a solid TE to help support a young QB and we have RBs that have.  

The Lions have delivered the 20th ranked offense in 2019 and again in 2020. I can't imagine how replacing Stafford with a rookie QB, a rookie HC and a new GM would deliver improvement any time soon. It just takes time to get 25 guys on the same page in a new offense

Are you saying Stafford is holding them back ? Or maybe the offense is further away than you imagine ? 
Something is not adding up here if all that talent is already there; and all you need is a rookie like Herbert to make it work.
Why can't Stafford make it work ?

[Sllim Pickens]

51 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

The Lions have delivered the 20th ranked offense in 2019 and again in 2020. I can't imagine how replacing Stafford with a rookie QB, a rookie HC and a new GM would deliver improvement any time soon. It just takes time to get 25 guys on the same page in a new offense

Are you saying Stafford is holding them back ? Or maybe the offense is further away than you imagine ? 
Something is not adding up here if all that talent is already there; and all you need is a rookie like Herbert to make it work.
Why can't Stafford make it work ?

I am talking from a talent standpoint.  We have talent at RB, OL, TE and WR if we keep KG.  I don't think we are far off with Stafford if we have the right coach/system and a defense that allows us to develop a run game. 

I also don't think that Stafford is the leader and perfect QB that can overcome talent and coaching issues like the greats can.  He has talent, he has numbers, but he hasn't led us to wins.  So although I think he is a good QB, I do have questions on if it is him or all of the coaches we have failed with and I am guessing its a little bit of both.