What’s your offer for Deshaun Watson?

[jolly red giant]

I have to say that getting Watson without selling the entire future of the franchise would start Paton's career as GM off with a bang.

[thebestever6]

I'm really interested in Zach Wilson he can throw so accurately off platform, is mobile, and has some great anticaption skills.

I heard he's has some manziel in him without the drug or alcohol use, so I'm not sure what that means, but I wonder what a trade up for him would look like in contrast to Watson.

[jolly red giant]

When you think about QBs - We got Elway for effectively the No.4 pick, another 1st rounder (turned out to be 1.19) and a back-up QB.

Now Elway was a surefire a draftee as they come - but there was no guarantee that he was going to pan out the way he did.

We know what Watson can do and while he will never be the same standard as Elway (few QBs will be) - he is a damned good QB. So 3 1st rounders and Lock and another player is not astronomical (although I would prefer to add players and get away with 2 1st rounders).

I would prefer to trade players rather than sell the farm on giving away 1st and 2nd rounders. From what has been suggested by Klis that Fant would be in the package - I could live with that - while Fant is going to be very good, there has been and is a question over his attitude to the game. I really like Jeudy and think he is going to be a star - some on here question the drops (I think that he was never coached properly on how to catch a ball and he was good enough to get away with it in college - so I think it can be fixed) - but I would still be open to being part of the package. We still have Sutton, Hamler and Patrick has proven decent. I would prefer to move Fant than Jeudy.

We are not going to be able to dump deadwood in any trade - but I would be open to a picks plus players trade - while being against a trade for straight up picks.

I really don't want to trade up for any of the QBs in the draft - going to 1.2 or 1.3 would cost nearly as much and Watson is a proven player.

[bMiller031]

I would do three 1sts + Chubb + Fant/or/Jeudy (or equivalent value).  Not sure that gets us there but, beyond that, I’ll take my chances w/ the unknown at QB + the nice young roster + current draft capital w/ GP at the helm.

[jsthomp2007]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I'm really interested in Zach Wilson he can throw so accurately off platform, is mobile, and has some great anticaption skills.

I heard he's has some manziel in him without the drug or alcohol use, so I'm not sure what that means, but I wonder what a trade up for him would look like in contrast to Watson.

He is at BYU, what kin of drugs or alcohol could he get into?  Just wait till he is in Denver and go nuts over some psychedelia mushrooms 

[thebestever6]

19 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

He is at BYU, what kin of drugs or alcohol could he get into?  Just wait till he is in Denver and go nuts over some psychedelia mushrooms 

Lmao rich parents already

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

 

I really don't want to trade up for any of the QBs in the draft - going to 1.2 or 1.3 would cost nearly as much and Watson is a proven player.

It would cost at least 1.9 and a 2022 1st to move up to 1.3.  And that's the bare minimum (more likely 2022 1st and a 2021 day 2 pick), given how there are several teams that appear interested as well, and ahead of us in pick capital (ATL/DET unclear, but CAR very much in the market - Teddy B in his last year, a clear caretaker contract; SF behind us as well).    As much as the rookie-level savings is tempting, the sure thing that Watson represents and the lower cost in future 1sts, yeah, I kinda feel the same way.

I do think if Paton's evaluation is that Lock isn't the guy, though, then he has to make a firm move - be it Watson, Stafford (lower price for sure, but older, not nearly into the elite range, and some back issues, so it's got Q's too - but also a much lower price), or moving up to get his guy Rd1.    If he believes in Lock enough, so be it - but in-between moves aren't the way to go.   

Pairing Lock with a 1-year vet isn't the move now IMO if you're Paton - you've got a 5-6 year mandate, so if you believe in Lock, OK - but if you don't, this is the year to actually change gears.   There won't be a Watson/Stafford on the market next year, and there isn't a Lawrence that allows the next tier of talent to move down into a range you can consider.   I was resigned to this move when Elway/Fangio were the GM/coach pair, because their 2022 survival depended on no-learning curve.   Paton's survival doesn't have to be so short-sighted (although we're good enough in the other areas of our O, I can get behind a Stafford/Watson acquisition - the question is more whether we can meet the price to win the bid, and in Stafford's case, whether DET is even set on dealing him or not - with a new GM, but a loyal ownership family, kinda hard to figure out).

[1234567]

Obviously Watson would be an upgrade over Lock at this point in his career. However.. great stats don’t always make a winner. Watson has a career record of 28-25-0 and is 1-2 in the playoffs. Then, after having one bad year with the Texans he tries to force his way out of town. That raises my eyebrows a bit. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have him. But I wouldn’t give up the farm for it. 

[BroncosFan2010]

I think 3 1st rounders, Chubb and some day 2 picks is as high as I would go. 

We should try as hard as possible to keep our skill position guys. I want to see a offense with Watson and all our skill guys, that has the potential to stick with KC. 

[jolly red giant]

14 hours ago, 1234567 said:

Obviously Watson would be an upgrade over Lock at this point in his career. However.. great stats don’t always make a winner. Watson has a career record of 28-25-0 and is 1-2 in the playoffs. Then, after having one bad year with the Texans he tries to force his way out of town. That raises my eyebrows a bit. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have him. But I wouldn’t give up the farm for it. 

Can you explain to me how he had a 'bad year'?

When someone like JJ Watt apologises to Watson for wasting a year of his career you know that the problem was the Texans and not Watson.

And you say great stats don't always make a winner - but they do indicate a bad year - and Watson's stats were -

On a 4-12 team - 70.2% completion rate for 4,823 yds with 33 TDs and 7 INTs - all while taking 49 sacks and having a crap supporting cast. He also ran in for 3 TDs.  He did fumble 8 times but they were mostly caused by the failure of the OL to pick up pressure. The Texans were not 4-12 because Watson had a bad year.

With our OL and our young WR/TE corps Watson would be able to do a lot more than he was able to do in Houston.

Edited February 14, 2021 by jolly red giant

[1234567]

5 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

Can you explain to me how he had a 'bad year'?

When someone like JJ Watt apologises to Watson for wasting a year of his career you know that the problem was the Texans and not Watson.

And you say great stats don't always make a winner - but they do indicate a bad year - and Watson's stats were -

On a 4-12 team - 70.2% completion rate for 4,823 yds with 33 TDs and 7 INTs - all while taking 49 sacks and having a crap supporting cast. He also ran in for 3 TDs.  He did fumble 8 times but they were mostly caused by the failure of the OL to pick up pressure. The Texans were not 4-12 because Watson had a bad year.

With our OL and our young WR/TE corps Watson would be able to do a lot more than he was able to do in Houston.

Lol when I say a bad year, I didn’t mean statistically. His stats were great last season; I was referring to their record. And that’s the entire point. While he has great stats, he doesn’t appear to be the kind of qb who can carry a bad team. And if one losing season is enough to make him want to cut and run then I think you have to at least ask the question out loud of what kind of leader he is. There may be a reason he’s barely above .500 at this point in his career in spite of putting up great numbers. 

Again, I’d love to see him in orange and blue. But would I mortgage our entire young core to get him? No. There’s more to being a winning QB than TD/Int ratios and completion percentages. And if he’s missing the intangibles to will a bad team to victory then trading all your best, young talent for him doesn’t gain you anything.  

[rcpbawler]

25 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Lol when I say a bad year, I didn’t mean statistically. His stats were great last season; I was referring to their record. And that’s the entire point. While he has great stats, he doesn’t appear to be the kind of qb who can carry a bad team. And if one losing season is enough to make him want to cut and run then I think you have to at least ask the question out loud of what kind of leader he is. There may be a reason he’s barely above .500 at this point in his career in spite of putting up great numbers. 

Again, I’d love to see him in orange and blue. But would I mortgage our entire young core to get him? No. There’s more to being a winning QB than TD/Int ratios and completion percentages. And if he’s missing the intangibles to will a bad team to victory then trading all your best, young talent for him doesn’t gain you anything.  

To argue whether or not Watson is worth giving up multiple first rounders/young players is worth it in the end, I can see an argument either way, but to paint a picture as though he's  some spoiled QB who can't win... well we'll just agree to disagree there.

 

Looking at everything at surface level, I don't really care about the stats or win/loss. Put Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Rodgers whoever on that team and I still don't see them making the playoffs. They've been hemorrhaging talent since the BoB took the reigns and it all came to a head last season. To make matters worse, the front office is just as inept, if not moreso, and Jack Easterby seems hellbent on doing things his way, which is honestly quite frightening if you've ever heard the guy speak. 

 

It's so much more than a guy who doesn't want to play for a bad team. Again, is Watson worth  3 firsts, Chubb, Fant and some other picks thrown in? Debatable, but I'd lean towards "yes".

[1234567]

22 minutes ago, rcpbawler said:

To argue whether or not Watson is worth giving up multiple first rounders/young players is worth it in the end, I can see an argument either way, but to paint a picture as though he's  some spoiled QB who can't win... well we'll just agree to disagree there.

 

Looking at everything at surface level, I don't really care about the stats or win/loss. Put Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Rodgers whoever on that team and I still don't see them making the playoffs. They've been hemorrhaging talent since the BoB took the reigns and it all came to a head last season. To make matters worse, the front office is just as inept, if not moreso, and Jack Easterby seems hellbent on doing things his way, which is honestly quite frightening if you've ever heard the guy speak. 

 

It's so much more than a guy who doesn't want to play for a bad team. Again, is Watson worth  3 firsts, Chubb, Fant and some other picks thrown in? Debatable, but I'd lean towards "yes".

I don't know that I think he's spoiled per se. More that I'm questioning his fortitude. I mean, if we're talking about giving up that much for him, then leave no stone unturned ya know? I think we have to at least take a look at it.

That's certainly possible, and fair point on the front office there. Keep in mind though, the Bucs were 7-9 last year and looked pretty miserable at times. And Brady just took them to the Superbowl. Yes, different teams and different circumstances. But at the end of the day, the proof is always in the pudding. The other concern I have is that our organization isn't exactly doing well these days either. In fact, we're a bit of a dumpster fire. What's to say he wouldn't jet on us the same way? Again, when we're talking about giving up our entire young core + our future building blocks in the draft all for one guy.. You gotta examine everything first.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one my friend. 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by 1234567

[Broncofan]

22 hours ago, 1234567 said:

Obviously Watson would be an upgrade over Lock at this point in his career. However.. great stats don’t always make a winner. Watson has a career record of 28-25-0 and is 1-2 in the playoffs. Then, after having one bad year with the Texans he tries to force his way out of town. That raises my eyebrows a bit. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have him. But I wouldn’t give up the farm for it. 

 

1 hour ago, 1234567 said:

Lol when I say a bad year, I didn’t mean statistically. His stats were great last season; I was referring to their record. And that’s the entire point. While he has great stats, he doesn’t appear to be the kind of qb who can carry a bad team. And if one losing season is enough to make him want to cut and run then I think you have to at least ask the question out loud of what kind of leader he is. There may be a reason he’s barely above .500 at this point in his career in spite of putting up great numbers. 

Again, I’d love to see him in orange and blue. But would I mortgage our entire young core to get him? No. There’s more to being a winning QB than TD/Int ratios and completion percentages. And if he’s missing the intangibles to will a bad team to victory then trading all your best, young talent for him doesn’t gain you anything.  

 

If you want to question the price to acquire Watson, no issue at all.   But questioning his character / fortitude because he wants out of Houston is an awful, terrible take.    Watson played the good soldier far more times than non-HOU fans realize - it's just HOU's ownership and FO have literally gone full gong show, in a very short time, and brought this upon themselves.

I'll make it easy and recap what brought Watson to this point from another thread:

 

The 2 story links on Easterby in the post above give all the background - and the background is eye-opening.  And this has also led to the following:

-JJ Watt, who's endured even more struggles in HOU, but never once thought about leaving - finally wanted out.   He's literally the heart of this franchise, even more than Watson, after Hurricane Katrina (EDIT:  Harvey, duh).   And he wants out.

-Former and current players are holding zero ill will for Watson - and the former players are usually ones who call out present-day players for not appreciating what they have.   And yet other than Brett Favre (which is ironic, since he forced his way out of GB to MIN, but seems to have forgotten that), they're all behind Watson.  Lifelong Texan greats like Andre2K.

-Finally, even the HOU fanbase, the ones who usually turn against players who want to leave, don't show anything but love to Watson, and don't blame him.   You don't have to take it from me, the hardcore guys like @ET80 will confirm this.

 

Again, I get the price is really high.   And it's obviously not clear what Paton is willing to pay.     Those are certainly talking points to have.   But Watson's talent is top 5 now.  And the reasons why he wants to leave aren't an indictment on Watson at all.  It's literally all on Cal McNair & VP Jack Easterby.   But since you asked, do the reading, check the links, and see for yourself.   If you want to debate the price, by all means - it's a discussion worth having.     Making Watson's character or fortitude because he wants to leave?   Any sane player with a pulse would, given how badly run the team has been the last 12 months.   To say it's a complete dumpster fire is an understatement.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Broncofan

[ET80]

16 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

You don't have to take it from me, the hardcore guys like @ET80 will confirm this.

Absolutly.

- This is the same guy who was told he shouldn't play in Jacksonville because his lungs were too bruised to get on a plane with a pressurized cabin... so he chartered a bus from Houston, TX to Jacksonville, FL (about a 13 hour drive) instead of sitting out a game.

- This is the same guy who once got kicked in the eye during a game, threw a TD pass and did not miss a snap (as his eyeball was bleeding).

 

- This is the same guy who finished out a game in which he tore an ACL (twice, if you consider his Clemson experience).

- This is the same guy who gave his first ever game check to the people working in the cafeteria at NRG, people who lost everything after Hurricane Harvey.

That's what makes this frustrating - in every sense of the word, he's the ideal face of any franchise. He's incredibly talented, he has a knack for making big plays in biggest moments, is very giving in the community and a leader that teammates want to fight for.

Nobody in their right minds should alienate him - but, here we are. 

I've been very up front with the current course of events - once Watson is gone, I'm probably not a Texans fan anymore. I'll watch games when nothing is on, I'll watch events unfold (while laughing at incompetence) but the real things the team worries about (spending money on merchandise, going to games, etc) won't be on my list of things to do.