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What’s your offer for Deshaun Watson?


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29 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I agree with most of what you both said but this comparison is god awful. Elway was using leverage he had entering the drafts in two different sports kinda a Murray comparison. He used the other sport to leverage his was out he never signed a contract.

Watson literally signed a contract last august knowing Easterby was in the organization. That's not even a year.

Your statement is inaccurate. Watson signed a contract knowing Easterby was in the org, and was told he would have a hand in GM/Coach selection, at which point the org turned around and did everything without him and his input. You can argue about whether he deserves to give his input, but if the org promised him things and didn't follow through, that's an org issue. And there have been NUMEROUS players unhappy with Houston's org.

It's not the same as Elway in a literal sense, it is the same as Elway in that it's a player doing what is best for his career.

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I have come around to not really judging Watson by his trade demand. Even if there were not the FO issues, any capable player can look at how BOB was allowed to run that org into the ground for years and come away with the conclusion they need to run, fast, in the opposite direction. 

We also dont have a chance at Watson if he doesnt have an (arguable) blemish or two. You make the calculated decision whether the guy is reacting to a lying FO and a horribly run org, or whether the guy is going to be perennially a pain in the rear. I think all the evidence on Watson points to the former. 

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3 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Your statement is inaccurate. Watson signed a contract knowing Easterby was in the org, and was told he would have a hand in GM/Coach selection, at which point the org turned around and did everything without him and his input. You can argue about whether he deserves to give his input, but if the org promised him things and didn't follow through, that's an org issue. And there have been NUMEROUS players unhappy with Houston's org.

It's not the same as Elway in a literal sense, it is the same as Elway in that it's a player doing what is best for his career.

 

2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I have come around to not really judging Watson by his trade demand. Even if there were not the FO issues, any capable player can look at how BOB was allowed to run that org into the ground for years and come away with the conclusion they need to run, fast, in the opposite direction. 

We also dont have a chance at Watson if he doesnt have an (arguable) blemish or two. You make the calculated decision whether the guy is reacting to a lying FO and a horribly run org, or whether the guy is going to be perennially a pain in the rear. I think all the evidence on Watson points to the former. 

And to emphasize these points -  Easterby is a charlatan who made an unexpected rise to power, where he had ZERO football qualifications for actual FO responsibilities beyond high-level management, and not actual football decisions.   BOB's firing was supposed to lead to actual football people taking over - with Watson's voice at the table.   What ensued wasn't even close to what any rational person would expect happen last September.   No org has gone this far off the rails in terms of letting a non-football person yield so much power.

Again, anyone who thinks Watson somehow should have seen this as foreseeable - should read the SI articles on Easterby's rise:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/12/10/ex-chaplain-jack-easterby-houston-texans-chaos-after-power-struggle-daily-cover

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/01/16/texans-chaos-deshaun-watson-unhappy-how-jack-easterby-kept-his-job

And again - Houston's fanbase, their ex-players (led by Andre Johnson), and JJ Watt & current players - hold no ill will to Watson.  They all support him.   That speaks volumes.   And with a guy who had zero character issues raised and only praise put on his shoulders for leadership during his HOU tenure....and cited as such in his Clemson days.

The revisionism that exists with Watson is that he's somehow a troublemaker.   He's kept his head down and his mouth shut when he had cause to many times before - but at some point, enough is enough.  Easterby's rise to power and the clear focus away from football-skill management, was that breaking point.   Dinging him for that is beyond ludicrous.

 

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I just wonder what our walking away point on Watson there has so be one. I know alot of people say they don't have one and they'd be more than willing to trade for him during the regular season I'm not one of those people. I would like a harden stance from our organization and Paton that would just have us move on.

Last thing I want is getting Watson for that bounty of stuff and having him way beyond the 8 ball working and functioning in this system. Then he'd have a bad year most likely with a valid excuse and the trade may already look poor at that point.

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On 3/10/2021 at 6:47 PM, thebestever6 said:

I just wonder what our walking away point on Watson there has so be one. I know alot of people say they don't have one and they'd be more than willing to trade for him during the regular season I'm not one of those people. I would like a harden stance from our organization and Paton that would just have us move on.

Last thing I want is getting Watson for that bounty of stuff and having him way beyond the 8 ball working and functioning in this system. Then he'd have a bad year most likely with a valid excuse and the trade may already look poor at that point.

I cannot personally foresee a situation where we trade for Watson during the season. IMO, our walking away point will likely be during the draft itself, assuming our offer is in the ballpark. Houston is posturing. If the guy isn't going to suit up, they would be idiots to not start shopping him. They can get a mint back in picks and they'll need to rebuild the team.

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1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

I cannot personally foresee a situation where we trade for Watson during the season. IMO, our walking away point will likely be during the draft itself, assuming our offer is in the ballpark. Houston is posturing. If the guy isn't going to suit up, they would be idiots to not start shopping him. They can get a mint back in picks and they'll need to rebuild the team.

Houston is completely inept, so continuation on this trajectory is the baseline for predictability.

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On 3/12/2021 at 8:56 AM, broncos67 said:

I cannot personally foresee a situation where we trade for Watson during the season. IMO, our walking away point will likely be during the draft itself, assuming our offer is in the ballpark. Houston is posturing. If the guy isn't going to suit up, they would be idiots to not start shopping him. They can get a mint back in picks and they'll need to rebuild the team.

Joe Thomas was on a Canadian show yesterday and he already feels its kind of getting late with regard to a Watson trade.  He commented that soon teams will be set for the season - like if we go get Dalton we are likely out of the sweep stakes which makes sense as teams need to be ready and set for the season.  I can see those idiots in Houston messing this up too - like today they might be able to get up to three first rounders for him plus a player too but as the season gets closer the one or two teams still being able to pull off this trade offer very little in comparison like next years (2022) first rounder and a second.  And everyone will think thats all it took not realizing the politics or timing of the situation.

     I'm kind of torn re Watson.  I just look at our division and conference and think like just get it done man.  We have waisted so much on the position already so go get one of the best.   My thoughts for Wilson are identical too - in fact right now I think he is better but he is older.  I feel if we do nothing it will be one of our biggest regrets ever.  And yeah I like the idea of Fields or Lance cuz I'm thinking they might be the ones that fall but if they don't pan out add another junked first round pick to our already increasing draft capital spent on the position.   GO GET WATSON OR WILSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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On 3/12/2021 at 7:56 AM, broncos67 said:

I cannot personally foresee a situation where we trade for Watson during the season.

Agreed.  There is only one franchise with enough draft capital (read "projected top six QB") and motivation to trade for Deshaun Watson.  It certainly isn't Denver.  Or Miami.  Or the Jets.

Draft picks?  Where would the Broncos be drafting in 2022, 2023, and 2024 if they were to add Watson?  29th?  Later?  Would you trade the NFL's best QB for three or even four 29th overall picks?  Spread out over the next two or three years, no less?

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14 hours ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

Agreed.  There is only one franchise with enough draft capital (read "projected top six QB") and motivation to trade for Deshaun Watson.  It certainly isn't Denver.  Or Miami.  Or the Jets.

Draft picks?  Where would the Broncos be drafting in 2022, 2023, and 2024 if they were to add Watson?  29th?  Later?  Would you trade the NFL's best QB for three or even four 29th overall picks?  Spread out over the next two or three years, no less?

I won't be that confident that they are all 29th or better, but even if you're trading picks in the mid-late 20s, I think it's something worth considering.

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19 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I won't be that confident that they are all 29th or better, but even if you're trading picks in the mid-late 20s, I think it's something worth considering.

Take a look at what is available at, say, #24 in your favorite mock drafts.  I'm seeing the fourth best OT & CB and the sixth best WR.  Would anyone accept that in trade for, say, John Elway in his prime (even if they didn't have to wait one, two, or three years to get the aforementioned rookie OT4, CB4, or WR6)?

Is it likely such a team would see another franchise QB that decade?

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On 3/14/2021 at 1:26 PM, Dr A W Niloc said:

Take a look at what is available at, say, #24 in your favorite mock drafts.  I'm seeing the fourth best OT & CB and the sixth best WR.  Would anyone accept that in trade for, say, John Elway in his prime (even if they didn't have to wait one, two, or three years to get the aforementioned rookie OT4, CB4, or WR6)?

Is it likely such a team would see another franchise QB that decade?

I think this is an interesting point. If the Texans hold out till after this draft, only for Deshaun to eventually win the staring contest in July/August, you shouldn’t be giving up any picks earlier than the 20ish range. Valuable picks, obviously, but you won’t be giving up the 3rd overall pick next year (👀). It’s the big reason why I think HOU would be foolish to wait. You’re not gonna have access to top 10 picks after the 2021 draft if (when) you make this trade after April.
 

Also, I don’t think this should be Paton’s main focus on draft day, but if he does have an idea that he can make the Deshaun move after the draft, I wonder if he’d trade down a few times to stockpile a bunch of young talent, knowing he’ll have to give up 5+ valuable future assets. 

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BTW for all those that point to Allbright as saying Denver won’t pursue him and that ship has sailed - hold on.  
 

That’s a huge hedge on “that shop has sailed”.   And what Renck has been saying.   Houston FO hasn’t answered calls yet.   But signing Tyrod Taylor with incentives should he be the starter speaks volumes there. 

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My gut tells me that based on Watson character so far that he hasn't sexually assaulted anyone.  But, can we leverage that?  We can give a 1st next year, the year after, Plus Lock, of course.  

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