2021 Baltimore Ravens Offseason Tracker

[SalvadorsDeli]

9 hours ago, DreamKid said:

I don't know why you're so barbed when referring to EDC addressing the WR position. With his first ever 1st Round Pick he took a WR, who we hit on. Marquise Brown is a really good WR. This came a year after Ozzie literally picked Hayden Hurst over Calvin Ridley. Yet you keep positioning DeCosta has uniquely awful in this regard. 

Across two drafts EDC has spent 3 early round picks on WRs(Brown, Boykin, and Duvernay) and drafted 4 in total counting James Proche. Brown was a hit, Boykin looked like a monster in practice but apparently can't carry it over to games, Duvernay wasn't utilized by the coaching staff despite immediately becoming a plus returner for us, and Proche was a 6th Round flyer who no one would expect to overtake anyone in a COVID offseason.

Prior to EDC, the last early round(1-3) WR we took was Breshad Perriman in 2015.

I don't think he's 'uniquely awful' compared to Ozzie, but I do think he's a continuation of some of the traits about Ozzie I wasn't always a fan of, but it's more frustrating because this time we're not trying to build a team to mask subpar to average QB play, we're theoretically building around a borderline elite QB. The 2019 offseason was good. We built a framework around Lamar - including Hollywood - back when it wasn't even clear Lamar was a franchise QB or not. But then he went and destroyed everyone's expectations for what he's been capable of and he's basically been rewarded with... nothing... from the FO ever since. Last offseason in a historically deep WR draft we waited till the end of the 3rd round to sign a guy to return kicks and run jet sweeps and then doubled down with another late round small school guy that everyone knows is never going to play a role in this offense. Everything else - pretty much every dollar of cap space, plus our best draft picks, went to defense. 

This year as it stands the only big move we're making is a move to replace Yanda that took a year for the FO to be proactive about. It's basically just been stasis at offense for the past 2 years, after we realized we had something special at QB. If we go WR in Round 1 then that will change things, but if it's another mid-round flyer along the lines of Duvernay/Boykin, then that's more of the same, and it's not enough. 

We chose to use Lamar's rookie contract to load up on defense. Now we're going to use his impending extension as an excuse for why we can't spend money on weapons around him. I just don't think that's the right way to treat what I think is a really special talent. I've seen more than enough crap at QB come through Baltimore to know that Lamar is different, we all have. That we're dusting off the same old playbook/strategy as usual just seems like a huge mistake to me that could very well cost us a championship. Hell, we're arguably doing less for Lamar than we did for Flacco. considering some of the actually quality vets Flacco had to work with like Mason/Boldin/Steve Smith. Hollywood is his Torrey but instead of another gamer to throw to he's got a bunch of Tandon Doss's. 

I know it's still too early in the offseason to say this all definitively, but at the same time I am not going to just not voice my concerns. 

All of this gets excused because wins, and I guess I look at what this franchise has done since Ray and Ed left and I see a pretty clear delineation in what made us a title contender again and what didn't and it wasn't the FO's moves, it was Lamar Jackson. Losing in the divisional round every year isn't the end of the world but he and this team is capable of more and if EDC is the guy everyone on here says he is, then I expect more than just him just asking the same team to run it back next year and expect different results. I don't dislike the guy or want him to be fired or anything but if we're going to say he's one of the GM's in the league then I expect him to show it this offseason, rather than the current 'well there was just nothing to be done' attitude that seems to be going around. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by SalvadorsDeli

[AngusMcFife]

4 hours ago, drd23 said:

Building the defense to stop the run first has been how its done in Baltimore for as long as I've been a fan, and its pretty easy to argue that the combination of McPhee, Ward and Wolfe were signed primarily with that in mind.  If you add in what I would classify as the misuse (or at the very least underuse) for whatever reason of the best pure pass rusher on the team last year in Ngakoue, and its not exactly a stretch to say the plan was tailored more to beating a running team like Tennessee than a passing dominated one like KC 

Except we utterly shut down the dominant passing attack of the Bills (3rd in passing DVOA) in the playoff game. 220 yards, 4.0 yards per play, 10 points. 

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

Can we just sign Antonio Brown and be done with it? Tired of this nonsense. The Chiefs were dominant with dirtbags on their team. So be it - NFL is a blood sport it’s not like the owners and fans have some moral high ground.

breaking the bank for a broken Golladay while Antonio Brown is available for peanuts is just bad economics. Let’s stop trying to be the good guys because we’re better when we’re the dark horse dirty birds.

Edited March 19, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

4 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

Can we just sign Antonio Brown and be done with it? Tired of this nonsense. The Chiefs were dominant with dirtbags on their team. So be it - NFL is a blood sport it’s not like the owners and fans have some moral high ground.

breaking the bank for a broken Golladay while Antonio Brown is available for peanuts is just bad economics. Let’s stop trying to be the good guys because we’re better when we’re the dark horse dirty birds.

We're not signing either of them, so this is irrelelvant.

[AngusMcFife]

3 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

I don't think he's 'uniquely awful' compared to Ozzie, but I do think he's a continuation of some of the traits about Ozzie I wasn't always a fan of, but it's more frustrating because this time we're not trying to build a team to mask subpar to average QB play, we're theoretically building around a borderline elite QB. The 2019 offseason was good. We built a framework around Lamar - including Hollywood - back when it wasn't even clear Lamar was a franchise QB or not. But then he went and destroyed everyone's expectations for what he's been capable of and he's basically been rewarded with... nothing... from the FO ever since. Last offseason in a historically deep WR draft we waited till the end of the 3rd round to sign a guy to return kicks and run jet sweeps and then doubled down with another late round small school guy that everyone knows is never going to play a role in this offense. Everything else - pretty much every dollar of cap space, plus our best draft picks, went to defense. Lo and behold our offense looks overmatched in the playoffs the past 2 years and somehow that's till a vindication of doing the bare minimum on offense. 

This year as it stands the only big move we're making is a move to replace Yanda that took a year for the FO to be proactive about. It's basically just been stasis at offense for the past 2 years, after we realized we had something special at QB. If we go WR in Round 1 then that will change things, but if it's another mid-round flyer along the lines of Duvernay/Boykin, then that's more of the same, and it's not enough. 

We chose to use Lamar's rookie contract to load up on defense. Now we're going to use his impending extension as an excuse for why we can't spend money on weapons around him. I just don't think that's the right way to treat what I think is a really special talent. I've seen more than enough QB's come through Baltimore to know that Lamar is different, we all have. That we're dusting off the same old playbook/strategy as usual just seems like a huge mistake to me that could very well cost us a championship. Hell, we're arguably doing less for Lamar than we did for Flacco. considering some of the actually quality vets Flacco had to work with like Mason/Boldin/Steve Smith. 

I know it's still too early in the offseason to say this all definitively, but at the same time I am not going to just not voice my concerns. 

All of this gets excused because wins, and I guess I look at what this franchise has done since Ray and Ed left and I see a pretty clear delineation in what made us competitive and what didn't and it wasn't the FO's moves, it was Lamar Jackson. Losing in the divisional round every year isn't the end of the world but he and this team is capable of more and if EDC is the guy everyone on here says he is, then I expect more than just him just asking the same team to run it back next year and expect different results. 

Yeah Lamar doesn't really throw it much deep or to the outside, even when guys are open. It's unclear whether adding a weapon out there would have helped much. Might be a waste of resources.

Yes Lamar is special and we should build around him. But he is also unique, so you are not building a standard offense. We had the best offense in the league in 2019 due to Lamar + great offensive line play + below average WRs. 

I think now that Lamar is progressing as a passer, it makes sense to invest in a better outside target. But during his first 3 years he wasn't really looking outside and deep to throw, so I'm not sure what good it would have done to have a good player out there. 

[Ray Reed]

10 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Except we utterly shut down the dominant passing attack of the Bills (3rd in passing DVOA) in the playoff game. 220 yards, 4.0 yards per play, 10 points. 

Yup. That expensive defense people are complaining about is what had us on the precipice of defeating that high flying Bills team in their house in the playoffs.

It was 10-3 in the red zone and Lamar threw a pick 6 to lose the game. Weird to keep complaining about team construction when it clearly worked in 2020 to get us on the doorstep before Lamar threw the game away. I love Lamar but let’s be honest as to why we lost that playoff game. It wasn’t the WRs around him. He threw it right to the guy.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Ray Reed

[M.10.E]

Regarding using the Buffalo game as evidence, we just can't ignore how awful the weather in that game was.

[AngusMcFife]

Just now, Ray Reed said:

That expensive defense is what had us on the precipice of defeating that high flying Bills team in their house in the playoffs.

It was 10-3 in the red zone and Lamar threw a pick 6 to lose the game. Weird to keep complaining about team construction when it clearly worked in 2020 to get us on the doorstep before Lamar threw the game away. I love Lamar but let’s be honest as to why we lost that playoff game. It wasn’t the WRs around him. He threw it right to the guy.

 

But if Tyre Phillips doesn't stand like a statue and let Hughes run by him unblocked the play before, Lamar hits Hollywood for a TD and it is 10-10, and the Ravens have the wind for the 4th quarter. 

[SalvadorsDeli]

Yeah just agree to disagree. We sent Lamar out there with a bunch of JAGs and then got mad that he didn't keep carrying him the way he was asked all season to. Doesn't mean he played well but it's clear he needs and needed more help. 

 Anyways from a team-building standpoint if you throw everything at defense and ignore the offense you can't complain that the team didn't have the balance you hoped for. In any case, this about looking forward not looking backwards. I don't think anyone here regardless of where you stand on some of the specifics wants to see us stand pat at WR again, it's just a difference of how mad it'll make some of us compared to others if he does. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by SalvadorsDeli

[AngusMcFife]

1 minute ago, M.10.E said:

Regarding using the Buffalo game as evidence, we just can't ignore how awful the weather in that game was.

A big reason why anyone would justify building a defense with good rush defense is because in January the weather is bad, and passing can be difficult outdoors.

[M.10.E]

3 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

A big reason why anyone would justify building a defense with good rush defense is because in January the weather is bad, and passing can be difficult outdoors.

Fine with that. My argument is that I think Campbell + Bwill at 15M each is overkill. Pick one of the two, not both.

Edited March 19, 2021 by M.10.E

[AngusMcFife]

4 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

Yeah just agree to disagree. We sent Lamar out there with a bunch of JAGs and then got mad that he didn't keep carrying him the way he was asked all season to. Doesn't mean he played well but it's clear he needs and needed more help. 

 Anyways from a team-building standpoint if you throw everything at defense and ignore the offense you can't complain that the team didn't have the balance you hoped for. In any case, this about looking forward not looking backwards. I don't think anyone here regardless of where you stand on some of the specifics wants to see us stand pat at WR again, it's just a difference of how mad it'll make some of us compared to others if he does. 

That's fair. But I'd add Stanley and Boyle are elite at what they do, and it sucks they got injured. Definitely not JAGs. Ravens paid them a lot and got unlucky. 

[Ray Reed]

4 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

Yeah just agree to disagree. We sent Lamar out there with a bunch of JAGs and then got mad that he didn't keep carrying him the way he was asked all season to. Doesn't mean he played well but it's clear he needs and needed more help. 

 Anyways from a team-building standpoint if you throw everything at defense and ignore the offense you can't complain that the team didn't have the balance you hoped for. 

And I think the phrase “ignore the offense” is where most people disagree with you. We’ve used significant draft capital on WRs/RBs/OL to put around Lamar the past 3 years.

It seems like “ignoring the offense” to you is not signing the corpse of AJ Green or a 34 year old Emmanuel Sanders like you were complaining about us not signing earlier this week. But something tells me even if we did sign them you’d be like “THIS is what EDC calls helping our offense? Lol”.

[SalvadorsDeli]

Yeah it's true we have different definitions of what investment on offense looks like. The numbers back me up though. It is what is is. 

[M.10.E]

I have a take. Please don't @ me. I dislike the Nick Boyle contract greatly. That is all. Thank you.