2021 Baltimore Ravens Offseason Tracker

[DreamKid]

3 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

The Michigan to Baltimore pipeline has not yielded impressive results. 

Meanwhile the Patriots have Josh Uche, Chase Winovich, and Michael Onwenu. Seems their Michigan plug is worth more than John's familial ties. Or maybe they just out scouted us? 🤔

[RayLew52]

11 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

This upsets me. We literally drafted Ben Bredeson instead of Tyler Biadasz. From the news I’ve been hearing Biadasz is expected to be a breakout candidate in Dallas, while Bredeson is traded after showing next to nothing for us. His collegiate accolades were not on the same level nor was his tape IMO on the same level. While Biadasz definitely came with injury red flags, he’s at least displaying ‘something’ at the NFL level.

The last two seasons we’ve had a hole along the IOL where Bredeson had the opportunity to provide some level of impact, yet a terribad rookie Tyre Philips at guard showed more to the coaches than Bredeson.

I can’t help but feel that was Harbaugh’s nepotism there. Drafting a player from his brothers program just to make it seem more viable to recruits (idk just assuming). Either way I didn’t like the Bredeson move then and I don’t like it even more now.

Sure we got low level compensation for him, but what would’ve been far more ideal is a legitimately productive IOL option that can give us at least 4 years of consistency as depth and/or starting quality.

Yuck.

I mean these things happen, at the time they liked Bredeson over Biadasz. Obviously in hindsight you can criticize practically every single draft pick they missed and name a player they could have had. The Ravens acknowledged their mistake and were shrewed enough to get better draft capital for him instead of outright releasing him..

[DreamKid]

53 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

The only reason I could see this making sense is that they are worried about other players' injuries and need him here just in case? I'm not really sure but yeah that's a major head scratcher to me.

I think his blocking is a major factor. They don't want to let that aspect go. A good block on the outside can spring our backs for a lot more yards, and we frequently saw in the preseason our little guys like Proche and Duve fail to put a hat on their man leading to the premature(in the coaches' minds) end of some of our runs.

They might just be scared of our lack of size at the position for right now. That's my guess. 

[diamondbull424]

Just now, RayLew52 said:

I mean these things happen, at the time they liked Bredeson over Biadasz. Obviously in hindsight you can criticize practically every single draft pick they missed and name a player they could have had. The Ravens acknowledged their mistake and were shrewed enough to get better draft capital for him instead of outright releasing him..

This is a pick I was critical of at the time. This isn’t a hindsight analysis. I broke down Bredeson’s tape and found there to be a lot of issues with it. IIRC he had too many balance issues where he was on the ground far too often. I believe I also felt IIRC he was too much of a finesse blocking option for our power scheme.

It’s been 1 1/2 years so I don’t exactly recall my exact analysis, but IMO I felt he was a 6th round to priority UDFA level talent, but not someone worth drafting in the 4th round.

(I at least understood the Tyre Phillips selection above Biadasz because he was an OT convert to guard that the team has had success with those conversions in the past. He was a raw option with size, swing OT ability, and there was some hope to harness his potential.)

Now again, I have no issue with them shrewdly correcting the mistake by getting acceptable compensation back for him.

But again, I felt it was a mistake at the time and this trade only further validates my issues with that pick. It was one of my least favorite selections of the last decade when based on the need at center, the value of a quality option in Biadasz, and the fact that we selected a lesser talent, with less scheme fit, and less positional versatility.

I hoped Bredeson would prove me wrong but that clearly was not the ending to the story.

[DreamKid]

I think one of the main issues with our guard pipeline is that we've drafted a lot of similarly talented options. So no one sets themselves apart and the FO just keeps awarding the starting spot to whoever the new kid on the block is(The new hope). It seems Ben Powers has defaulted into the starting spot this year because Ben Cleveland was injured, but had that not happened it seems obvious Ben 3.0 would be starting(Still might at some point during the year).

This carousel has to stop at some point. Identify a talented upside option and just leave him there to develop.

[Ray Reed]

57 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

This upsets me. We literally drafted Ben Bredeson instead of Tyler Biadasz. From the news I’ve been hearing Biadasz is expected to be a breakout candidate in Dallas, while Bredeson is traded after showing next to nothing for us. His collegiate accolades were not on the same level nor was his tape IMO on the same level. While Biadasz definitely came with injury red flags, he’s at least displaying ‘something’ at the NFL level.

The last two seasons we’ve had a hole along the IOL where Bredeson had the opportunity to provide some level of impact, yet a terribad rookie Tyre Philips at guard showed more to the coaches than Bredeson.

I can’t help but feel that was Harbaugh’s nepotism there. Drafting a player from his brothers program just to make it seem more viable to recruits (idk just assuming). Either way I didn’t like the Bredeson move then and I don’t like it even more now.

Sure we got low level compensation for him, but what would’ve been far more ideal is a legitimately productive IOL option that can give us at least 4 years of consistency as depth and/or starting quality.

Yuck.

Adding on to this I think it may be time for Ravens fans to stop telling ourselves it's an automatic guarantee that any O-lineman we take in the middle rounds is just automatically going to outplay their draft position because we're an "oline factory" and we've have success there before.

It feels like the past 3-4 drafts we (myself included in this) have been of the attitude that "hey, we can just wait to take an OL late day 2 or day 3 because of Marshal Yanda, Rick Wagner and Ryan Jensen all those years ago worked out". Those guys outplayed their draft positions, sure, but we've also seen in the past 5-6 years a TON of middle round OL objectively NOT work out for us, like:

Robert Myers (5th)
Alex Lewis (4th)
Nico Siragusa (4th)
Jermaine Eleumenor (5th)
Tyre Phillips (3rd) [Still a bit TBD but not on the right trajectory)
Ben Bredeson (4th)

And at this point Ben Powers has given us probably what you'd expect out of a 4th round pick, certainly not above that to this point. In that same span really the only mid-late round "hit" we've had is Bradley Bozeman.

Thinking its probably time we stop assuming we can just plug all of our OL woes with 5th round picks because its a guarantee that as an organization we'll turn every late round OL into a gem.

[RayLew52]

47 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

This is a pick I was critical of at the time. This isn’t a hindsight analysis. I broke down Bredeson’s tape and found there to be a lot of issues with it. IIRC he had too many balance issues where he was on the ground far too often. I believe I also felt IIRC he was too much of a finesse blocking option for our power scheme.

It’s been 1 1/2 years so I don’t exactly recall my exact analysis, but IMO I felt he was a 6th round to priority UDFA level talent, but not someone worth drafting in the 4th round.

(I at least understood the Tyre Phillips selection above Biadasz because he was an OT convert to guard that the team has had success with those conversions in the past. He was a raw option with size, swing OT ability, and there was some hope to harness his potential.)

Now again, I have no issue with them shrewdly correcting the mistake by getting acceptable compensation back for him.

But again, I felt it was a mistake at the time and this trade only further validates my issues with that pick. It was one of my least favorite selections of the last decade when based on the need at center, the value of a quality option in Biadasz, and the fact that we selected a lesser talent, with less scheme fit, and less positional versatility.

I hoped Bredeson would prove me wrong but that clearly was not the ending to the story.

Well their scouting department disagreed at the time. I'm sure they would be the first to admit it was a mistake but they have addressed and have moved forward. 

The Ravens have a tried and true track record of being fantastic talent evaluators but the draft is a crap shoot in a lot of ways so you have to learn from your mistakes and move on. Next year we get another shot with what will most likely be an early 4th rounder..

[coordinator0]

3 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

The only possible gripe I have is choosing Boykin over Nigel Warrior.

That’s one that just seems like them not wanting to admit they wasted a 3rd round pick this early.

Very seriously doubt Warrior clears waivers.

Other than that, initial thought is: this is maybe the deepest team we’ve had since 2011ish. Barring injuries, man, this is a good team.

Yeah, that's the one spot that bugs me too. I would have rather took the chances of a team claiming Boykin over a team claiming Warrior. Bring Miles back on the PS then elevate him when need be then bring back to the active roster when a spot opens up because of injury,

Meh. Oh well.

[DreamKid]

I wouldn't be shocked if Bredeson ended up being a better player than both Phillips and Powers. It's not a high bar to clear at all and he's had little opportunity to develop here. Still a good trade for us because we got compensation for a background player not in our long term plans, but I'd hold off on any concrete judgement of his ability for now.

[DreamKid]

Real solid chance that pick we got for for Bredeson is in the 105-115 range. Don't see the Giants surprising anyone this year.

All of our 2022 picks will be that much more valuable when Lamar's extension drops too. That class could define the next 4 years for this club in many ways. 

[drd23]

3 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Adding on to this I think it may be time for Ravens fans to stop telling ourselves it's an automatic guarantee that any O-lineman we take in the middle rounds is just automatically going to outplay their draft position because we're an "oline factory" and we've have success there before.

It feels like the past 3-4 drafts we (myself included in this) have been of the attitude that "hey, we can just wait to take an OL late day 2 or day 3 because of Marshal Yanda, Rick Wagner and Ryan Jensen all those years ago worked out". Those guys outplayed their draft positions, sure, but we've also seen in the past 5-6 years a TON of middle round OL objectively NOT work out for us, like:

Robert Myers (5th)
Alex Lewis (4th)
Nico Siragusa (4th)
Jermaine Eleumenor (5th)
Tyre Phillips (3rd) [Still a bit TBD but not on the right trajectory)
Ben Bredeson (4th)

And at this point Ben Powers has given us probably what you'd expect out of a 4th round pick, certainly not above that to this point. In that same span really the only mid-late round "hit" we've had is Bradley Bozeman.

Thinking its probably time we stop assuming we can just plug all of our OL woes with 5th round picks because its a guarantee that as an organization we'll turn every late round OL into a gem.

The Tyre Phillips pick was the "straw that broke the camels back" in 2020 in getting me to stop thinking that we could somewhat rely on the FO to find servicable or better OL guys in the mid rounds, and was probably why I've been more sceptical than most about the Cleveland pick. 

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

I wouldn't be shocked if Bredeson ended up being a better player than both Phillips and Powers. It's not a high bar to clear at all and he's had little opportunity to develop here. Still a good trade for us because we got compensation for a background player not in our long term plans, but I'd hold off on any concrete judgement of his ability for now.

For me, his level of play needs to clear the Tyler Biadasz line, not the Phillips/Powers line.

3 hours ago, RayLew52 said:

Well their scouting department disagreed at the time. I'm sure they would be the first to admit it was a mistake but they have addressed and have moved forward. 

The Ravens have a tried and true track record of being fantastic talent evaluators but the draft is a crap shoot in a lot of ways so you have to learn from your mistakes and move on. Next year we get another shot with what will most likely be an early 4th rounder..

It’s a crapshoot. But medical aside (because Biadasz had some definite red flags) I hope they didn’t select Bredeson because they thought he was actually a better collegiate player than Biadasz.

I’d hope the medical for Tyler, potential Harbaugh nepotism (which we’ve seen in other places- hence why it wouldn’t shock me here), and/or trusting the track record of the coaches in developing mid round talents would be why I think they would’ve went with the healthier option.

We’ve seen them pass up players with medical concerns before (Ryan Grant and Michael Brockers) so it makes the most sense for their decision making in the draft, but it still isn’t a decision I’m a fan of. When a 2nd round talent falls that far in the draft at a position of need I think regardless of medical, you take a chance on that talent.

But alas, it’s time to put the Bredeson chapter to bed. I just hope in a similar position in the future the team decides not to pass up a gift, even if said player has an extensive medical history. JMO.

3 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Adding on to this I think it may be time for Ravens fans to stop telling ourselves it's an automatic guarantee that any O-lineman we take in the middle rounds is just automatically going to outplay their draft position because we're an "oline factory" and we've have success there before.

It feels like the past 3-4 drafts we (myself included in this) have been of the attitude that "hey, we can just wait to take an OL late day 2 or day 3 because of Marshal Yanda, Rick Wagner and Ryan Jensen all those years ago worked out". Those guys outplayed their draft positions, sure, but we've also seen in the past 5-6 years a TON of middle round OL objectively NOT work out for us, like:

Robert Myers (5th)
Alex Lewis (4th)
Nico Siragusa (4th)
Jermaine Eleumenor (5th)
Tyre Phillips (3rd) [Still a bit TBD but not on the right trajectory)
Ben Bredeson (4th)

And at this point Ben Powers has given us probably what you'd expect out of a 4th round pick, certainly not above that to this point. In that same span really the only mid-late round "hit" we've had is Bradley Bozeman.

Thinking its probably time we stop assuming we can just plug all of our OL woes with 5th round picks because its a guarantee that as an organization we'll turn every late round OL into a gem.

Yeah I think the front office has wisely positioned themselves in an optimal position this draft to make a concerted effort to build a dominant OL. They can take the double dip approach they took to the TE (Hurst/Andrews) and WR (Hollywood/Boykin, Bateman/Wallace, Duvernay/Proche) positions they’ve done the past few years to strengthen those units significantly.

I don’t disagree with their philosophy as the OL has largely been average to above average and so the more special talents means the more we can absorb the loss of an offensive playmaker (Dobbins) or so going down vs being in a position where a hobbled Hollywood and Andrews means we might as well lockup the season. There’s a ‘little’ more flexibility with regard to an OL.

However after this season, I definitely think irregardless of the need that’s likely to open up at IDL with the likely loss of Calais Campbell, the OL should hopefully see 2-3 high tier investments within it. We’ve got enough offensive firepower to endure some losses to some playmakers and still make a run, now it’s time to build a destructive OL that can punish and protect. I trust the stop gap pieces we have to field a quality OL this season (where we differ in our opinions) but moving forward I’d certainly love to see an enhanced focus at the top of the draft.

[DreamKid]

2 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

For me, his level of play needs to clear the Tyler Biadasz line, not the Phillips/Powers line.

 

2 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

It’s a crapshoot. But medical aside (because Biadasz had some definite red flags) I hope they didn’t select Bredeson because they thought he was actually a better collegiate player than Biadasz.

I'm not really thinking about about the Biadasz comparison, for the reason you listed. When dealing with medical red flags everything goes out the window for the most part. Can't fault the FO if our team doctors didn't give them the thumbs up(Which we can't know). 

More annoying imo that the Patriots hit on a superior Guard who played with Bredeson at Michigan 39 picks later in Michael Onwenu. That bothers me. Cause our evaluators are watching the same exact OL on tape as the Pats and we have an inside connection with Jim Harbaugh. Yet we left the draft with the inferior option/talent- showing we just got out scouted. 

46 minutes ago, drd23 said:

The Tyre Phillips pick was the "straw that broke the camels back" in 2020 in getting me to stop thinking that we could somewhat rely on the FO to find servicable or better OL guys in the mid rounds, and was probably why I've been more sceptical than most about the Cleveland pick. 

Yea, I'm with this thought too. The FO no longer deserves the same level of faith when it comes to the OL. We've drafted IOL pieces year after year and have sh*t to show for it. Safe to say the scheme and more so Lamar, are propping up what talent we have identified on the interior as well.

'14- Urschel

'15- Myers

'16- Lewis

'17- Siragusa

'18- Bozeman - Starting caliber.

'19- Powers - Below Average to Meh, at this point.

'20- Phillips

'20- Bredeson

Even if you give a pass for Siragusa(Injury) and Bredeson(log jam + recouped value via trade), it's still a sub par record. If we didn't luck out with UDFA Mekari being a decent pass protector despite the snapping issues the failures would've stuck out more too. So none of us should have too much belief in Ben Cleveland(who wasn't a hot ticket prospect) suddenly reversing course here. 

[Boodgyman5220]

3 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

 

I'm not really thinking about about the Biadasz comparison, for the reason you listed. When dealing with medical red flags everything goes out the window for the most part. Can't fault the FO if our team doctors didn't give them the thumbs up(Which we can't know). 

More annoying imo that the Patriots hit on a superior Guard who played with Bredeson at Michigan 39 picks later in Michael Onwenu. That bothers me. Cause our evaluators are watching the same exact OL on tape as the Pats and we have an inside connection with Jim Harbaugh. Yet we left the draft with the inferior option/talent- showing we just got out scouted. 

Yea, I'm with this thought too. The FO no longer deserves the same level of faith when it comes to the OL. We've drafted IOL pieces year after year and have sh*t to show for it. Safe to say the scheme and more so Lamar, are propping up what talent we have identified on the interior as well.

'14- Urschel

'15- Myers

'16- Lewis

'17- Siragusa

'18- Bozeman - Starting caliber.

'19- Powers - Below Average to Meh, at this point.

'20- Phillips

'20- Bredeson

Even if you give a pass for Siragusa(Injury) and Bredeson(log jam + recouped value via trade), it's still a sub par record. If we didn't luck out with UDFA Mekari being a decent pass protector despite the snapping issues the failures would've stuck out more too. So none of us should have too much belief in Ben Cleveland(who wasn't a hot ticket prospect) suddenly reversing course here. 

While I agree with your statements, it’s a little unfair to include urschel in this. Guy was a legitimate prospect that stepped away from the game healthy. Cant blame the front office for this

[DreamKid]

1 minute ago, Boodgyman5220 said:

While I agree with your statements, it’s a little unfair to include urschel in this. Guy was a legitimate prospect that stepped away from the game healthy. Cant blame the front office for this

He wasn't a good player during his time here though, and long term commitment to the sport is a big part of the evaluation process.