2021 Baltimore Ravens Offseason Tracker

[Ray Reed]

8 minutes ago, ravens5520 said:

We have 30 million coming off the books this time next year 

2021:   
Campbell 15 mill cap hit.  
Brandon Williams 14 mill cap hit. 
Both. UFA next year 

11 million of dead cap also coming back next year that is wasted on Earl Thomas (10 mill) and Ingram (1.2)

We also have our 2018 draft class all up for FA next year so you’ve gotta think a significant amount of that freed up $ will be going to some combination if not all of:

Lamar

Andrews

Elliot

Bozeman

Averett (maybe)

 

[diamondbull424]

6 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

We also have our 2018 draft class all up for FA next year so you’ve gotta think a significant amount of that freed up $ will be going to some combination if not all of:

Lamar

Andrews

Elliot

Bozeman

Averett (maybe)

 

Elliot hasn’t shown enough that we should be resigning him back unless it’s on a cheap deal. He’s shown even less than Bowser had shown to this point prior to this past season. Bozeman, we already have his replacements on the roster with Bredeson, Powers, Phillips, and rookie IOL. No reason to waste money on resigning an average IOL option, unless he decides to play for less than he’ll likely find on the open market. All of the names below Lamar and Andrews are maybe options at best.

In the past we’ve typically let players of their calibers walk. Averett is probably the most likely to return, considering Smith is seemingly close to retirement and this organization has shown that it’s very willing to invest in the CBs. But at other positions, unless EDC makes a hard change from the way Ozzie operated in that regard, I certainly wouldn’t expect any of them back, but Averett for a good value is probably the best bet.

[diamondbull424]

7 hours ago, ravens5520 said:

I’ve been back and forth on hearing Ravens are interested In Watt. He’s a household name. Easy to get excited. Injuries have hampered him over a few seasons. Though, we have seen how many vets come to us and find that next gear while playing with us??? 
Campbell missed a few games last year and it hurt during those games statistically.

For me... It comes down to paying Judon or Watt.. Do we want to be tied to Judon for 4-5 years or Watt for 1-2. 

My plan:

1. Sign Watt/Bowser over Judon/Yannick    
2. Trade Brown with at least a 1st + in the deal... unless we can secure a pass rusher/interior o line in the deal    
3. Sign vet RT not named Fluker

We use the draft pick haul from Brown to fill more young talent to an already young talented team. Watt/Bowser keep us competitive and could offer same production if not more of Judon/Yannick. 
Short term deal for Watt frees up cap space in a year or two as we look to lock up Lamar and see our cap space get better. 

Would certainly make for an intriguing and deadly front 3 in obvious pass rushing situations. Imagining Greg Rousseau being added to that unit as well, would truly allow it to meet it’s MonStars nickname.

That said, I think it’ll be GB, great personality/team fit, his childhood team, generational QB at an MVP level that’s gotten to the NFCCG the last few seasons, and while challenging they can free up about $10-12m to pay him from their -$28m hole by restructuring Rodgers, Baktieri, and Zadarius; extending Adams, and cutting Preston Smith.

Though, I suppose now that I’m saying it out loud, the fact that they’ll need to make all those moves, that’ll take time, so teams that already have the cap space and could offer a great locker room culture, and chance at winning could have the advantage. So from that perspective, the Bucs, Ravens, Jets, and the Cardinals are all well positioned to make a run at him early.

They all have the money from the jump as well as other intriguing things they could offer. Watt was consistently facing double teams in Houston this past season and schemed against. He’s not that same level of player, but playing on a front with Campbell and Madubuike would prevent him from seeing that same level of attention and could lead to a career year, like you ascribed. Obvious connection to Anthony Weaver.

The Cardinals with Chandler Jones could present a unique circumstance as well, could be an obvious dark horse team, especially depending on his relationship with Hopkins. That said, I think they’d have to convince Watt that they’ve got the front office and coaching staff to get it done... I don’t think they will be able to do so, but if they could, that would make for an intriguing situation for him. 

The Bucs have the money and Watt could go full on ring chase mode. This would admittedly be the one situation where I might lose a little respect and won’t be able to wish for his success.

The Jets are likely to be in a similar circumstance as the Cardinals, they’ll have to convince them that they’re serious about competing. So trading for Watson could certainly do that. Having Robert Saleh as an active contributor for the defense could do that. Having a CJ Mosley as a respected veteran he could join along with a young talent that would keep him from being doubled in Q.Will, those could offer enough for him to forge a unique and unexpected path in gang green.
———

Though ultimately it’ll depend on how patient Watt looks to be, I suppose. Just because he can sign with a team immediately doesn’t mean that he might legitimately decide to do so. But man how special would it be to get young DI guys around both Watt and Campbell, especially if we drafted a Greg Rousseau. That would be just about the perfect situation for him to grow into an absolute stud.
———

EDIT: And I know, I want to get Lamar upgraded protection and weapons too, but Baltimore has been a defensive organization at it’s core for a long time, so forgive me if I get a little excited over the prospect of forming the next great Baltimore Ravens defense.

I want both. 😂

Edited February 13, 2021 by diamondbull424

[DreamKid]

Could have word on a Jihad Ward re-up soon. An expected move. McPhee shouldn't be long after. Both might get a small bump for stronger play in 2020, especially down the stretch. 

Rumors are the team has been trying to extend Derek Wolfe for a while too, but I'm less confident in him coming back. He might be able to double his money elsewhere and we have Justin Madubuike who is ready for a starring role. Obviously I wouldn't mind him back though. Wolfe was a great presence in 2020 and we still want a nice healthy/deep rotation to keep all of our DIs fresh. 

[diamondbull424]

39 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Could have word on a Jihad Ward re-up soon. An expected move. McPhee shouldn't be long after. Both might get a small bump for stronger play in 2020, especially down the stretch. 

Rumors are the team has been trying to extend Derek Wolfe for a while too, but I'm less confident in him coming back. He might be able to double his money elsewhere and we have Justin Madubuike who is ready for a starring role. Obviously I wouldn't mind him back though. Wolfe was a great presence in 2020 and we still want a nice healthy/deep rotation to keep all of our DIs fresh. 

Yup. I’ve been sort of wondering what’s been taking so long with the Derek Wolfe deal myself. Perhaps the Ravens and the agents wanted to wait until they had a better grip on the upcoming cap before making final negotiations? Weird though. Seems things on that front definitely should be starting back up soon.

Will be glad to bring Ward back, definitely love the way he plays and the passion he brings. He’s definitely feeling like a Raven, honestly wouldn’t be mad to sign him to a 2-3 year type deal with some incentives, I think he’s shown enough of a fit within our scheme that he makes too much sense. Such an effective pass rusher when given the chance.

[Ray Reed]

23 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Elliot hasn’t shown enough that we should be resigning him back unless it’s on a cheap deal. He’s shown even less than Bowser had shown to this point prior to this past season. Bozeman, we already have his replacements on the roster with Bredeson, Powers, Phillips, and rookie IOL. No reason to waste money on resigning an average IOL option, unless he decides to play for less than he’ll likely find on the open market. All of the names below Lamar and Andrews are maybe options at best.

In the past we’ve typically let players of their calibers walk. Averett is probably the most likely to return, considering Smith is seemingly close to retirement and this organization has shown that it’s very willing to invest in the CBs. But at other positions, unless EDC makes a hard change from the way Ozzie operated in that regard, I certainly wouldn’t expect any of them back, but Averett for a good value is probably the best bet.

Disagree. I expect both Elliott and Bozeman to be back on cheapish deals when theirs expire. Actually wouldn’t be surprised to see one or both get extended before they hit FA on a team friendly-ish deal that gives them longer term security in case on an injury in their final year.

The logic above is akin to saying “why would we resign Chuck Clark when we have Deshon Elliott and Earl Thomas on the roster” or “why would we resign  Jimmy Smith when we have Averett and Marshall on the roster”.

Having other and younger players on the roster doesn’t preclude you from resigning starters - especially when you’re not quite sure what you have in those other players.

If anything EDC has show the propensity to extend guys much sooner/frequently than Ozzie did. We’ve seen that, so not sure why we would look at what Ozzie did and expect EDC to go away from the trends we’ve already seen him favor as a GM.

[diamondbull424]

33 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Disagree. I expect both Elliott and Bozeman to be back on cheapish deals when theirs expire. Actually wouldn’t be surprised to see one or both get extended before they hit FA on a team friendly-ish deal that gives them longer term security in case on an injury in their final year.

The logic above is akin to saying “why would we resign Chuck Clark when we have Deshon Elliott and Earl Thomas on the roster” or “why would we resign  Jimmy Smith when we have Averett and Marshall on the roster”.

Having other and younger players on the roster doesn’t preclude you from resigning starters - especially when you’re not quite sure what you have in those other players.

If anything EDC has show the propensity to extend guys much sooner/frequently than Ozzie did. We’ve seen that, so not sure why we would look at what Ozzie did and expect EDC to go away from the trends we’ve already seen him favor as a GM.

Chuck Clark was extended because he brings/brought more value to the defense than Elliot. Not only has he shown to be a superior player to Elliot, he’s shown to be a FAR more durable player than Elliot, AND he calls the defense and gets everyone set.

Whats more by this time last season, Clark had already signed his extension deal. Covid influence or not, Elliot isn’t likely going to be extended because he hasn’t shown the durability that we could depend on him for an extended period of time without it being potentially another investment failure at the safety position.

So that leaves us in a position where one of two things happen: 1) Elliot balls out this final season, in which case he’s not being signed back on a cheap deal, he’s going to get big boy money and we’re likely going to be outcompeted on the open market.. OR 2) Elliot does not ball out, in which case, he’s replaceable level and whether it’s a 2021 drafted player or a 2022 drafted rookie, Elliot’s contributions can largely be replaced within the defense for a cheap rookie salary. So unless Elliot decides to sign back on a cheap veteran minimum type deal, then he’s unlikely to be brought back in that scenario.

However in the latter scenario, @ravens5520 point still stands about contract money coming off the books. Your original response implies that we were going to have to devote legitimate (starter level or high level backup) money to all those names. Otherwise the point would be irrelevant because minimum type salaries are going to be cheap deals that are needed to fill out the roster every year. If all you were saying is Elliot is going to make $1m, then that’s not saying much. So you’ll have to be more specific in terms of what you consider is the kind of deal Elliot will garner. I think unless he’s willing to return for $2-2.5m, he’s gone.
————

In terms of Bozeman, he’s a solid starter. He’s someone on the open market can probably net himself (based on current cap standards), roughly $7m, which is Alex Lewis type money. And if a team is desperate enough, they might even throw $8-9m at him.

Whereas considering the likely investments into the IOL cultivated in the 2021 draft we will have something like: Bredeson, Powers, Philips, Mekari, rookie1, rookie2?... not to mention we likely can find cheap veteran fill ins that are willing to play on vet minimum deals to join a contender, as well as our success with finding UDFAs. Why would we invest that much money in a guard that hasn’t separated himself from the pack enough to display fundamental intangible value to the team?

If anything someone like Patrick Mekari, who has legitimate versatility up and down the line- similar to what James Hurst provided us years ago, is more in-line with this teams investment strategy along the OL. Outside of elite OL talents like Yanda, Stanley, JO, etc and versatile pieces like Hurst, we have historically let go of guys on the OL who have shown even more than Bozeman. Especially with franchise QB money to be dolled out soon, frivolous investments in average OL talents for a team that consistently fields similar level talents makes little to no investment sense. So unless EDC is seriously diverging from the investment strategies associated with Ozzie, where are the precedents within our history that would detail similar happenings along the OL?
————

Lastly, saying EDC has shown a greater propensity to extend guys to a deal than Ozzie, isn’t saying he has diverged away from Ozzie’s investment strategy. EDC has extended Marlon Humphrey (corner), Ronnie Stanley (elite OL), Nick Boyle (elite run blocking TE), Patrick Ricard (elite FB), Tavon Young (corner), Jimmy Smith (corner), Marcus Peters (corner), Chuck Clark (jack of all trades + starter- similar to Jarrett Johnson years ago- only the secondary version); Ozzie also invested money into the secondary on a consistent basis and also invested in the team’s more versatile pieces. Whether it was investing in Rod Woodson to Eric Weddle or Chris McAlister to Jimmy Smith. Or a guy like Jarrett Johnson or James Hurst as a move piece.

The investment strategy, to this point, is largely the same with simply a slightly different execution. So until we get legitimate evidence from EDC that shows otherwise, like we’ve seen with EDC more aggressive investments at WR in the draft; there’s no reason to assume a complete division from how things have always been done.

[diamondbull424]

^^^^ TL;WR- Elliot doesn’t have the same versatility nor durability as Clark. Bozeman likely makes $7m and we can replace him with guys on the roster and/or cheap veterans ring chasing. And Ozzie and EDC have shown similar investment strategies with simply different execution.

[Ray Reed]

No, i’m not expecting Elliott to get a big time deal. I’d expect he could be had in the $3.5-4.5 per year range...something like 3 years $13. Im not implying that that kind of contract is going to take up a bunch of room on it’s own, I’m saying once you add those type of contracts to the fact that we will have big time $ extensions with guys like Andrews and Lamar that freed up $ from Williams and Campbell will be gone rather quickly.

And I think you underestimate what the team thinks of Bradley Bozeman, personally. The way our run game is designed he pulls more than any G in the league and he’s proven to be very effective at it. They trust him doing that on a nearly play by play basis, and he’s been durable. He’s one of the few pieces we can count on for extended continuity. We also don’t really know what we have in Bredeson, and we’ve seen like 3/4 games out of Powers. It’s complete speculation on your part that they would be comfortable enough with one of those guys to let Bozeman (who won’t command a high $ contract) walk without at least attempting to resign him.

This will obviously be more of a discussion to be had after this upcoming season though depending on if either completely price themselves out with an awesome season, or get hurt, etc. 

My main point (still stands) is that I don’t want to pay JJ Watt despite the potential of Williams/Campbell $ coming off the books in the next few seasons because i’d rather see that $ go elsewhere

Edited February 15, 2021 by Ray Reed

[diamondbull424]

4 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

And I think you underestimate what the team thinks of Bradley Bozeman, personally.

Perhaps. But the way I see it Ricky Wagner was a superior position player to Bozeman and we let him go after having similar career reliability because the team didn’t want to overspend on his position. Diverted the resources elsewhere. Ben Grubbs was easily a superior player and because of the amount of resources provided to the line (Yanda), they chose to let Grubbs walk. Kelechi Osemele was a superior player, you can argue the durability issues there, but either way the team chose not to invest in him along the OL. Jason Brown infamously called the Ravens out for not investing in their OL, he had started for three seasons with us, two at LG. Team let him go. Ryan Jensen didn’t have the same career reliability, but he broke out, and the team refused to compete and sign him on the open market.

Each one of those players seemingly either weren’t elite or they didn’t bring the durability with elite play... and we let them walk. For the Ravens to invest, the player seemingly has to be elite and have the durability to boot. Ronnie Stanley is perhaps the only exception to that rule and he plays the most premium position of them all and was the highest pick of the bunch. Yet it wouldn’t shock me that had he gotten injured sooner, they would’ve chose to invest in Orlando Brown Jr and instead trade Stanley. But that’s neither here nor there.

Bozeman has graded out the same as DJ Fluker on the season, who was playing out of position at RT and was injured most of the year. Mekari has graded out as virtually the same as Bozeman the last two seasons now. Whether at center or at guard. He’s shown that he can pull as well.

The team isn’t likely to extend Bozeman as that would in most cases raise his cap number considering he’s only making roughly $2.5m atm and would be going up to roughly $7-8m (if not more if the cap goes up enough so as to cause some inflated deals.) So considering he’s probably not a likely extension candidate, he’s going to hit the open market and the team has a history of not competing for our OL on the open market- as outlined above.

Therefore my money is on the Ravens choosing to extend Patrick Mekari as a starter/depth option in February of 2022 for roughly, 3 yrs $5.5m APY. Letting Bozeman walk in FA. But we’ll see.

[Ray Reed]

Yep, time will tell. Personally I would rather have Bozeman extended at 3 years $7 APY than Mekari at 3 years $5.5 APY but obviously that’s contingent on a lot of different factors that won’t be sorted till next offseason (namely whether Bozeman would take that deal in the first place - he’ll have started 40+ games at G for a historically great offense in this league at that point barring a serious injury).

Speaking of OL I’m curious to see if they do something with OT this year in FA prior to the draft - I could see spending a decentish amount of $ on a swing tackle even if we don’t trade Orlando - we’ve gone into the last 2 seasons dangerously thin at OT

 

[diamondbull424]

7 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Yep, time will tell. Personally I would rather have Bozeman extended at 3 years $7 APY than Mekari at 3 years $5.5 APY but obviously that’s contingent on a lot of different factors that won’t be sorted till next offseason (namely whether Bozeman would take that deal in the first place - he’ll have started 40+ games at G for a historically great offense in this league at that point barring a serious injury).

Speaking of OL I’m curious to see if they do something with OT this year in FA prior to the draft - I could see spending a decentish amount of $ on a swing tackle even if we don’t trade Orlando - we’ve gone into the last 2 seasons dangerously thin at OT

Personally I wouldn’t invest in a swing tackle in FA this season unless it’s in the form of resigning DJ Fluker for another dirt cheap deal.

Patrick Mekari has shown legitimate swing tackle versatility when he manned the spot in 2020. He also played college LT and was a highly graded LT in pass pro. His play at RT this past season, along with him looking good outside of his Bills performance, while starting at/playing three different positions in 2020 is IMO enough depth at swing tackle that we shouldn’t waste money on a non-starter IMO. Again, unless it’s resigning Fluker for a cheap deal.

I’d just target a durable high level starter early in the draft, like a Teven Jenkins, Liam Eichenburg, etc. then double dip with a project OT in the 6th or stash some talent from UDFA... assuming we don’t get a dirt cheap veteran.

I’d rather they invest in the IOL if they invest early. Scherff if he won’t break the bank (I think he will) or Linsley if he would come at a reasonable amount (which I think he might).
———

But yeah to each their own. The way I see it a guy who can start at 3 different positions, is 3 years younger, and has only started in 3 less games (333 total snaps) through their respective two first season holds more team value. Also I think part of this is circumstantial. The cap situation this year makes it nearly impossible to extend Bozeman without painting the cap into a worst position, while Mekari (assuming he continues to see significant snaps and plays well in 2021), should be in a position to where we can extend him at a more opportune time that keeps his overall contract value at a lower amount.

I do like Bozeman’s leadership and how he carries himself within the community, which is the only reason why he’s not fully in my ‘let him walk’ camp but more in my ‘sad to see him go’ camp... if that makes sense. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by diamondbull424

[coordinator0]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/23/dez-bryant-wants-to-play-two-more-seasons-but-not-with-ravens/

 

Quote

“I realized quick Baltimore wasn’t the place for me,” Bryant wrote. “No bad blood. That’s their way of doing things so you gotta respect it.”

Bryant said he plans on playing two more seasons “and that’s it for me.” The question is: Will anyone else give him a shot?

 

[DreamKid]

It's dumb for him to make comments that could even slightly be construed as negative. Baltimore is a highly respected club league wide and him saying one of best run organizations "Wasn't the place for him" won't look good to the non existent club that's actually in need of his services. He's way past cooked. 

 

[diamondbull424]

3 hours ago, coordinator0 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/23/dez-bryant-wants-to-play-two-more-seasons-but-not-with-ravens/

 

 

And they realized after he decided to quit because he tested as possibly having covid, that he wasn’t a fit for this team. Hence why his snap count, which had been increasing, precipitously declined. Probably would’ve been better for the team to let him quit tbqh. Give more offensive snaps to Devin Duvernay. Glad he’s gone.

3 hours ago, DreamKid said:

It's dumb for him to make comments that could even slightly be construed as negative. Baltimore is a highly respected club league wide and him saying one of best run organizations "Wasn't the place for him" won't look good to the non existent club that's actually in need of his services. He's way past cooked. 

 

Yup. But it was also dumb for him to announce he would quit (then later revoke it) vs finishing the season up, without needing to have that explained to him. Dude couldn’t even be professional for half a season. Why would anyone want to deal with him? He’s not a leader to help grow young guys- like any potential “leadership” credentials that didn’t really exist prior went fully out the door when he quit on the team.

He’s not an ultra productive vet that consistently cooks defenders at the highest level and so he’s worth dealing with his “personality” like an AB.

And he’s only keeping a team from exploring/developing their younger receivers. There’s literally no reason for a team to want him. His only hope was the highest recommendation from the Ravens to a future employer... and he botched that.

How foolish.