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Journey to Ring 3: Club Evaluation & Building Another Champion


DreamKid

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The positions mentioned are CB, IOL, and WR. 

Strong preseason performances from any position might persuade a team to chuck us a late round pick(6th/7th) for a player we might've otherwise cut, but any CB that shows true promise or potential won't be traded under pretty much any circumstances. I don't see our background WRs garnering any attention, unless like I mentioned Proche or someone goes off during the preseason- which is unlikely. IOL though, does seem like a position group that could be primed for some unloading. We shipped out Elumanuor with less on the inside then we have now and he could even survive at Tackle. So I won't be surprised so see one of our 'Mid Round IOL' gang traded. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Our social media active players love doing this every single time. 😂

We could use a productive & proven player at RUSH LB as we bring Odafe along and manage Pernelephant's snap count, and there is the familial connection with former Raven Arthur Jones. I don't see the FO going after him at 30+ Y/O with that price tag though. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Really feeling like we should've picked a Tackle out of that historically deep class. Phillips and Smith are disasters out there, AV is a band aid, Mekari is just an emergency option, Ja'Wuan James is a possible late season coin toss- if that, and Ronnie is coming off injury. 

The chances of us not paying a steep price for underserving our weak depth and low ceiling across the line are pretty small. At some point during the season we'll see the dam break. We have enough talent to overcome the issue and still be a force as a team, but we could've easily done more to prevent this level of desperation. If a trade isn't made for a Tackle, the FO will be praying for a shot at some other club's cut/PS talent. 

If NFL/Ravens media actually functioned in any sort of of valuable way EDC and Co. would be pressed on the justification of drafting Ben Mason as a TE4/FB2 when we had such a need at Tackle.. during a championship window. Which isn't to say that was only spot where we could've opted for a Tackle instead of who we did pick. It does stick out though. Mason will likely function as a 53 "coach's guy" albatross pushing a more valuable young defender off this roster than he will as any sort of contributing factor for the 21' season.

Luckily, Lamar and our scheme make life easier for any OL suiting up for the Ravens. We're really pushing that perk to it's limits though with some of the talent we might be fielding. Hoping we get some reason for optimism tossed our way before the start of the regular season.

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1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

Really feeling like we should've picked a Tackle out of that historically deep class. Phillips and Smith are disasters out there, AV is a band aid, Mekari is just an emergency option, Ja'Wuan James is a possible late season coin toss- if that, and Ronnie is coming off injury. 

The question is when though. 

I know that some fans have been using the Ben Mason pick as an example of a wasted pick as part of the argument to justify that an OT should have been drafted, but in what way would a 5th round rookie OT help now?  The last few mid round OL picks that have been made haven't exactly panned out yet (if at all) in Phillips, Bredeson & Powers.  Looking at the draft:

1st round - Bateman & Oweh - I doubt anyone would want these picks changed
3rd round - Cleveland & Stephens
4th round - Wallace
5th round - Wade, Hayes & Mason

A bunch of OTs went in the mid-2nd, but we didn't have a pick in that range.  I guess you could say that maybe they should have used the Brandon Stephens pick on an OT instead, but the next guy was James Hudson who's going to be the back-up swing tackle for the Browns.  After that, its a random pick of likely back-ups and developmental guys who won't work out.

IMO the bigger problem was seemingly rushing to sign AV to a reasonably hefty contract to play a position he's never played before.  

 

*Note, I am not saying that the Mason pick was good - in fact I hated it at the time and still don't understand it

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35 minutes ago, drd23 said:

After that, its a random pick of likely back-ups and developmental guys who won't work out.

That's the reality of pretty much any position you pick past Round 2 though, and we needed back ups/a developmental option at Tackle in addition to a starting talent capable of replacing OBJ. I mean guys like Phillips and Andre Smith(at this point in his career) struggled to even survive out there against essentially the Saint's 2/3s. Say Stanley or AV has to leave the field for a series or two because they're dealing with a something minor(Which has happened with Stanley multiple times), being checked for a concussion, etc etc. We might not have an option to field behind them that won't have a 35+% chance of imploding any play we run. Our backup duo of Jermaine Eluemanour and James Hurst from a couple years back is looking Herculean right now. 

47 minutes ago, drd23 said:

IMO the bigger problem was seemingly rushing to sign AV to a reasonably hefty contract to play a position he's never played before.  

Drafting a Tackle might've altered or helped our position on this issue too. 

48 minutes ago, drd23 said:

*Note, I am not saying that the Mason pick was good - in fact I hated it at the time and still don't understand it

I got you. You're not wrong, most fans wouldn't change the majority of our picks. It's not easy to pinpoint some concrete "should've been the selection" option either. I do think the Ben Mason over a Tackle lottery ticket criticism is a justified position though. Was just looking at some of the Tackles that went after him and both Landon Young(Pick# 206) and Stone Forsythe(Pick# 208) outperformed our own back up options at the position thus far this preseason. Just kind of makes sense to have taken a swing there from every angle. 

I guess it's easy to accept the trade off of lesser play at RT(AV to OBJ) for more high end picks and fortification at other positions, but the neglect of depth/development at Tackle beyond that is frustrating. It was a deep class and even if the club didn't like a lot of the options(shorts arms, injury history, character flags, whatever) in the end we're left with legit nothing behind a rehabbing Ronnie Stanley and a 32 Y/O journeyman making a position switch anyway. Something has to be done and I predict it will be, but I'm not comfortable with how things were handled up to this point. Maybe the clearest example of deserved criticism for EDC since he's taken over. We need at least one more fieldable Tackle- now. 

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15 hours ago, DreamKid said:

That's the reality of pretty much any position you pick past Round 2 though, and we needed back ups/a developmental option at Tackle in addition to a starting talent capable of replacing OBJ. I mean guys like Phillips and Andre Smith(at this point in his career) struggled to even survive out there against essentially the Saint's 2/3s. Say Stanley or AV has to leave the field for a series or two because they're dealing with a something minor(Which has happened with Stanley multiple times), being checked for a concussion, etc etc. We might not have an option to field behind them that won't have a 35+% chance of imploding any play we run. Our backup duo of Jermaine Eluemanour and James Hurst from a couple years back is looking Herculean right now. 

Drafting a Tackle might've altered or helped our position on this issue too. 

I got you. You're not wrong, most fans wouldn't change the majority of our picks. It's not easy to pinpoint some concrete "should've been the selection" option either. I do think the Ben Mason over a Tackle lottery ticket criticism is a justified position though. Was just looking at some of the Tackles that went after him and both Landon Young(Pick# 206) and Stone Forsythe(Pick# 208) outperformed our own back up options at the position thus far this preseason. Just kind of makes sense to have taken a swing there from every angle. 

I guess it's easy to accept the trade off of lesser play at RT(AV to OBJ) for more high end picks and fortification at other positions, but the neglect of depth/development at Tackle beyond that is frustrating. It was a deep class and even if the club didn't like a lot of the options(shorts arms, injury history, character flags, whatever) in the end we're left with legit nothing behind a rehabbing Ronnie Stanley and a 32 Y/O journeyman making a position switch anyway. Something has to be done and I predict it will be, but I'm not comfortable with how things were handled up to this point. Maybe the clearest example of deserved criticism for EDC since he's taken over. We need at least one more fieldable Tackle- now. 

Agreed. 

Depth is obviously the major concern at this point, but I’ll be dead honest - i think Ravens fans are going to be unpleasantly surprised at how AV performs this year. I think he will be a below average RT for us - even with the scheme helping him out.

My roommate is a Steelers fan, so I watched a ton last year to root against them/him. He did not play well last year; I was shocked at the grades he got from PFF in all honesty. And from reports so far in camp, and what we’ve seen in his (albeit limited) time in preseason this year - it has not been the seamless transition that i think EDC hoped it would be.

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16 hours ago, drd23 said:

The question is when though. 

I know that some fans have been using the Ben Mason pick as an example of a wasted pick as part of the argument to justify that an OT should have been drafted, but in what way would a 5th round rookie OT help now?  The last few mid round OL picks that have been made haven't exactly panned out yet (if at all) in Phillips, Bredeson & Powers.  Looking at the draft:

1st round - Bateman & Oweh - I doubt anyone would want these picks changed
3rd round - Cleveland & Stephens
4th round - Wallace
5th round - Wade, Hayes & Mason

A bunch of OTs went in the mid-2nd, but we didn't have a pick in that range.  I guess you could say that maybe they should have used the Brandon Stephens pick on an OT instead, but the next guy was James Hudson who's going to be the back-up swing tackle for the Browns.  After that, its a random pick of likely back-ups and developmental guys who won't work out.

IMO the bigger problem was seemingly rushing to sign AV to a reasonably hefty contract to play a position he's never played before.  

 

*Note, I am not saying that the Mason pick was good - in fact I hated it at the time and still don't understand it

Agreed. I see the criticism for the OL in general and yet, there isn’t much legitimate solutions for how things could’ve been done differently.

I loved Creed Humphrey and would’ve loved him as a Raven, but from all reports, Oweh could be special at a position that we’ve been missing high end ability at in some time.

The only regret was signing AV so soon when Morgan Moses would become available swiftly afterwards. But that still wouldn’t have solved the depth issue.

I think it’s a situation where the team will benefit from the clarity of the talent at the skill positions that for the first time in years will mean we don’t have to look towards the WR/RB position in the draft and wonder ‘should we invest’. Instead the front office can utilize this next offseason to concretely build up the OL following a collegiate season that will offer far more tape (which is most important for OL) than the past season.

15 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Drafting a Tackle might've altered or helped our position on this issue too. 

The problem here is that the front office was seemingly already locked into a deal with AV prior to the draft and were just waiting for the 6/1 deadline. That required trust on both ends, had the Ravens backed out of said deal, that would’ve been a situation that could impact EDC ability to recruit a future veteran. It would’ve been nice to wait and grab Moses too, but again, similar situation where word is bond probably benefits the teams recruiting prowess and future team building more than any upgrade that might be seen from a 5th round developmental OT or the upgrade of Moses from AV IMO. Our veteran pipeline for guys like Calais Campbell and Justin Houston is sort of reliant on the Ravens reputation and guys like that might be more likely to sign elsewhere if our reputation were to change. So I think it’s a bit more loaded.

Though I also don’t disagree that a developmental tackle might’ve been more valuable than a FB. That said, with how reliant the team is on a strong satellite blocker and with Nick Boyle having in the past been busted for his ‘strength and recovery’ programs, it might not have been a bad idea ultimately to have a potential pro bowl FB talent over what would in all likelihood be another Tyre Phillips at backup OT.

That said I trust Mekari as a backup OT about as much as I trusted Hurst a couple years ago. His opportunities there have actually looked better than Hurst’s during his first couple seasons where he was a turnstile there following his collegiate injury.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/18/2021 at 8:58 PM, DreamKid said:

I do think the Ben Mason over a Tackle lottery ticket criticism is a justified position though. Was just looking at some of the Tackles that went after him and both Landon Young(Pick# 206) and Stone Forsythe(Pick# 208) outperformed our own back up options at the position thus far this preseason. Just kind of makes sense to have taken a swing there from every angle. 

Following up on this, now that Ben Mason was unsurprisingly cut-

FWIW

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Any shot at a championship rides on 1. Lamar taking a step forward, 2. Our weapons, OL, and Roman allowing/facilitating that step forward, and 3. Impact play and progression from our young defenders.

1 and 2 are pretty obvious so I want to focus on number 3. We need guys like Madubuike, Queen, Harrison, AA, Elliot, Bowser, Ferguson, and Oweh to actual make an impact. Not bend don't break, but actual game swinging impact. 

The loss of Fort is flying under the radar in light of other injuries and I don't think it should. Mixed in with his flashy highlight plays, Queen once again showcased some of his deficiencies this preseason. Costly false steps, broken tackles, lapses in coverage. Harrison had some of his own lowlights too. Those guys are young, still improving, and I'm honestly expecting some of the same issues we saw when we trotted out Kenny Young and Peanut to start to the year- though obviously not as bad. Fort was the rock of our LB core and he made those younger guys better while also taking pressure off of them. His loss will be felt. Which is why we need Queen and Harrison to not just survive and make the occasional flash play, but be secure down to down defenders who impact opposing offenses. Same goes for AA who now steps into a bigger role with Peters gone, Madubuike who we need to continue on his progression path towards elite DI impact, Elliot who is now a 2nd year starter in a contract year, and then all of our young pieces at EDGE. We need all of them to hit the ground running and only get better from there- or we aren't winning any Super Bowl.

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On 8/18/2021 at 5:48 PM, DreamKid said:

Really feeling like we should've picked a Tackle out of that historically deep class. Phillips and Smith are disasters out there, AV is a band aid, Mekari is just an emergency option, Ja'Wuan James is a possible late season coin toss- if that, and Ronnie is coming off injury. 

The chances of us not paying a steep price for underserving our weak depth and low ceiling across the line are pretty small. At some point during the season we'll see the dam break. We have enough talent to overcome the issue and still be a force as a team, but we could've easily done more to prevent this level of desperation. If a trade isn't made for a Tackle, the FO will be praying for a shot at some other club's cut/PS talent. 

If NFL/Ravens media actually functioned in any sort of of valuable way EDC and Co. would be pressed on the justification of drafting Ben Mason as a TE4/FB2 when we had such a need at Tackle.. during a championship window. Which isn't to say that was only spot where we could've opted for a Tackle instead of who we did pick. It does stick out though. Mason will likely function as a 53 "coach's guy" albatross pushing a more valuable young defender off this roster than he will as any sort of contributing factor for the 21' season.

Luckily, Lamar and our scheme make life easier for any OL suiting up for the Ravens. We're really pushing that perk to it's limits though with some of the talent we might be fielding. Hoping we get some reason for optimism tossed our way before the start of the regular season.

Ravens FO really needs to start scanning our forum. Guess it's good my called shot reared it's head Week 1 so EDC can get to fixing the issue quicker, but Holy Sh*t this was all so obvious even before our 3 million injuries. 

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Andre Dillard could be a trade target for us. He's been phased out by a couple guys in Philly now, and should firmly be on the block. Would probably take a 4th or so to get it done. 

He's not good, but he's young, athletic, and can't be worse than AV. Worst case he becomes a swing option for us in 2022 if he doesn't play up to standard this season. No real downside to the move. We just watched AV get violated for over 60 minutes and just lost another player to likely season ending injury in Tyre Phillps- who essentially was our backup swing tackle. We need some additional options at the position- fast. 

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  • 1 month later...

Someone dirt cheap we could look at for ILB would be Reuben Foster. Hasn't played since a knee injury back in 2019, and he's a Free Agent. I know Saleh worked him out for the Jets this year and he's not off red flagging in the void or anything. Could at least lock in a futures deal to put him in in the mix for 2022.

It's a low risk move. He's 27 YO, and was one of the top young LBs in the league right as he debuted. LJ Fort joined us at 29 YO and still delivered high end play. So long as his knee is cleared, I don't think Foster would be unable to do the same. Or at least it's not a crazy premise. We have the Bama connections, he and Marlon were close, and we'd be giving him another shot at life in the league. Would probably give us everything he had. 

At his peak, he was an every down LB who could make plays against the run and pass. What he'd be now who knows, but it's not a bad dice roll imo. 

Here's a highlight of him doing everything our LBs currently struggle to do-

 

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3 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Someone dirt cheap we could look at for ILB would be Reuben Foster. Hasn't played since a knee injury back in 2019, and he's a Free Agent. I know Saleh worked him out for the Jets this year and he's not off red flagging in the void or anything. Could at least lock in a futures deal to put him in in the mix for 2022.

It's a low risk move. He's 27 YO, and was one of the top young LBs in the league right as he debuted. LJ Fort joined us at 29 YO and still delivered high end play. So long as his knee is cleared, I don't think Foster would be unable to do the same. Or at least it's not a crazy premise. We have the Bama connections, he and Marlon were close, and we'd be giving him another shot at life in the league. Would probably give us everything he had. 

At his peak, he was an every down LB who could make plays against the run and pass. What he'd be now who knows, but it's not a bad dice roll imo. 

Here's a highlight of him doing everything our LBs currently struggle to do-

 

Definitely has the instincts.

Quote

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/timeline-reuben-fosters-troubles-career-alabama-redskins

2017 NFL Draft: 
Between his dismissal from the scouting combine and failed drug test, Foster slipped in the 2017 NFL Draft. Once a consensus top-10 pick, Foster saw several defensive players be drafted before him, including three linebackers. The San Francisco 49ers traded up to grab Foster with the second-to-last pick of the first round.

September 10, 2017: Foster records three tackles in his NFL debut in a 23-3 loss to Carolina. He played 11 snaps before suffering a high ankle sprain, which caused him to miss the next five games.

October 22, 2017: Foster returns from his ankle injury in a 40-10 loss to the Dallas Cowboys. He was forced to leave the game during the second half with a rib injury, which caused him to miss the following week.

November 5, 2017: After missing a week with the rib injury that he suffered against Dallas, Foster returned in a 20-10 loss to the Arizona Cardinals. The then-rookie turned in what may still be his best career game, totalling 14 tackles, a career-high.

Foster stayed healthy the rest of the season, finishing with 72 tackles in just 10 games. 

 

January 13, 2018: Back in Alabama, Foster was arrested on a second-degree marijuana charge. He was released on a $2,500 bond.  

February 11, 2018: Foster was arrested early Sunday morning on suspicion of domestic violence charges, as well as threats and assault weapon possession. He was taken to the Santa Clara County Main Jail, and released from custody later that night on $75,000 bond.

April 12, 2018: In regards to the February incident, Foster was charged with multiple counts of domestic violence. Charges were that he inflicted great bodily harm, forcefully attempted a victim (his girlfriend) from reporting a crime, and having possession of an assault weapon. If convicted, Foster was facing up to 11 years in prison.

April 25, 2018: Foster's then-girlfriend's attorney, Stephanie Rickard, told the police that Foster's girlfriend, Elissa Ennis lied to the police about Foster hitting her, and that her injuries were from a fight with another woman.

May 17, 2018: Ennis testified under oath that Foster did not hit her on that February night. She called it a "money scheme." In 2011, she went to jail for falsely accusing a formerboyfriend of domestic violence.

May 23, 2018: The court dismissed the charges against Foster for domestic violence.

May 25, 2018: Foster's marijuana charge from January was dismissed by the courts after he completed a diversion class.

July 3, 2018: The NFL announced that Foster was suspended the first two games of the 2018 for violating the NFL's substance abuse and conduct policy.

September 23, 2018: Foster makes his season debut in a 37-28 defeat to the Kansas City Chiefs. 

October 28, 2018: Foster leaves during the first half against the Cardinals with a hamstring injury. Foster missed the two games before the 49ers bye week.

November 24, 2018: Around 9 p.m. Saturday night, Foster was arrested in Tampa, Fla., on suspicion for domestic violence. The incident occured at the Grand Hyatt Hotel where the 49ers were staying before their matchup against the Buccaneers on Sunday. According to the report, Foster pushed Ennis's phone out of her hand, pushed her in the chest area, and then hit her with an open hand on her face.

November 25, 2018: The 49ers announced they would be releasing Foster following the previous night's incident. Foster was released from jail after posting bond Sunday afternoon. 

November 27, 2018: Foster was claimed by the Redskins on waivers. NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell placed Foster on his exempt list, meaning he cannot play or practice with the team until the investigation is concluded. 

So I know we have our policy on DV issues, but it’s interesting that the GF’s lawyer claimed her client made the story up. Either the GF is an abuse victim who has covered for two BFs or she’s a known liar. Probably the former, but if the Ravens investigate and determine it’s the latter, I don’t see why it wouldn’t be smart to at least put Foster on the PS and see what he’s capable of doing after ramping up and learning the defense.

I’d certainly be down for this reclamation project. Especially if his time out of the league has served to humble him some. We’ve got a guy in Jimmy Smith on the roster who went through issues with a domestic partner and could potentially serve to be a mentor for Foster. I like the idea.

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1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

So I know we have our policy on DV issues, but it’s interesting that the GF’s lawyer claimed her client made the story up. Either the GF is an abuse victim who has covered for two BFs or she’s a known liar. Probably the former, but if the Ravens investigate and determine it’s the latter, I don’t see why it wouldn’t be smart to at least put Foster on the PS and see what he’s capable of doing after ramping up and learning the defense.

I’d certainly be down for this reclamation project. Especially if his time out of the league has served to humble him some. We’ve got a guy in Jimmy Smith on the roster who went through issues with a domestic partner and could potentially serve to be a mentor for Foster. I like the idea.

According to reports we did pursue Jarvis Landry who similarly had DV stuff floating around him(even had an incident on video).So it seems like we'll still look at grey area players. With only accusations(some or all false apparently) attached to him, I'd say Foster fits into that category too. 

Apparently Reuben worked out for the Browns a month ago as well. So other clubs are definitely sniffing. Cleveland already had another 2017 Draft Class reclamation project turn into gold for them in Malik McDowell and were probably looking to dip into that well once more. The emergence of JOK really turned down that need for them though.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/14/2021 at 9:04 PM, DreamKid said:

Andre Dillard could be a trade target for us. He's been phased out by a couple guys in Philly now, and should firmly be on the block. Would probably take a 4th or so to get it done. 

He's not good, but he's young, athletic, and can't be worse than AV. Worst case he becomes a swing option for us in 2022 if he doesn't play up to standard this season. No real downside to the move. We just watched AV get violated for over 60 minutes and just lost another player to likely season ending injury in Tyre Phillps- who essentially was our backup swing tackle. We need some additional options at the position- fast. 

👀

 

 

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