Journey to Ring 3: Club Evaluation & Building Another Champion

[M.10.E]

Also for next year, I don't want to hear people clamoring "run the ball!!!" when we're up 20 points versus the bad teams next year like we had this year. We need to treat those moments like live practice. If you want this team to get better passing the ball, they actually you know, need to pass the ball in live situations.

Lamar, OL, Scheme. 2/3 of those things need to greatly improve for next year.

Edited January 20, 2021 by M.10.E

[SalvadorsDeli]

 

I know a lot of this is just coachspeak and he's not going to get into specifics about his plans for the offseason. But it really rubs me the wrong way and does not give me much hope that he's willing to talk about how Lamar needs to improve but can't admit the same about the coaching staff. 

[M.10.E]

 

 

 

IMO this says just that.

 

 

THANK YOU

Edited January 20, 2021 by M.10.E

[Ray Reed]

Yeah it's pretty clear people are going to see what they want to see in his comments because the playoff loss is still fresh and emotions may still be riding high but he literally word for word said the coaching staff and scheme needs to be better and they need to improve upon it. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Ray Reed

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

If nothing were to change except Marquise Brown developed into like a Tyler Lockett type guy our offence will still march on anyone in reg season at least... I don’t see how a healthy ravens team isn’t in the playoffs next year.. we just need reinforcements on that off. line and one more weapon then draft picks can fill us out.

Edited January 20, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[RavensTillIDie]

Yeah, I'm okay with what Harbs had to say. Removing Roman from the equation was always a bit of a long shot. Hopefully they bring in another passing coordinator and/or forces Roman to incorporate some different looks into his scheme. And if nothing else, I think if we can improve the quality of our offensive line, especially in regards to pass protection - that alone can have a tremendous impact next season.

 

Unrelated, but it dawned upon me another reason why it's so hard to adjust Roman's scheme is substitutions. Given the tempo at which we play and the type of personnel we tend to employ in most of our base packages, it makes it difficult to run multiple different players in from play-to-play, especially when Roman is sitting in the booth and can't call out directly to his players on the sideline. Just a compounding problem, really.

[SalvadorsDeli]

54 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Yeah it's pretty clear people are going to see what they want to see in his comments because the playoff loss is still fresh and emotions may still be riding high but he literally word for word said the coaching staff and scheme needs to be better and they need to improve upon it. 

I disagree with this. The full answer on the 'complexity' of the passing offense was just a cop-out answer, basically responding by saying that the critics are wrong because we just throw the ball less than other teams. No real introspection or acknowledgement about how our offense has performed against top defenses and in the playoffs. He even basically said that our passing offense doesn't need to be as complex because we just throw the ball less than other teams, and came to the presser prepared with what he claimed were a bunch of stats that showed we're great at throwing the ball. Beyond the boilerplate "I want to be better in every way" kind of pablum everything he said in detail was in defense of the passing offense rather than talking about or really acknowledging what the coaching staff can do to make it better. I don't know what else to call that but complacency.

The scheme is the scheme. To the extent people keep talking about bringing in a new 'passing game coordinator'  or bringing in fresh ideas as the sort of compromise alternative to firing Roman, it's pretty clear Harbaugh has no interest in doing that, either. It is what it is. 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by SalvadorsDeli

[M.10.E]

We also have to factor in that we're facing in another pandemic offseason. Installing a brand new offense over Zoom to our young offense sounds like a disaster if we're being honest. This next year will be the true litmus test for this offense IMO.

Edited January 20, 2021 by M.10.E

[Ray Reed]

25 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

I disagree with this. The full answer on the 'complexity' of the passing offense was just a cop-out answer, basically responding by saying that the critics are wrong because we just throw the ball less than other teams. No real introspection or acknowledgement about how our offense has performed against top defenses and in the playoffs. He even basically said that our passing offense doesn't need to be as complex because we just throw the ball less than other teams, and came to the presser prepared with what he claimed were a bunch of stats that showed we're great at throwing the ball. Beyond the boilerplate "I want to be better in every way" kind of pablum everything he said in detail was in defense of the passing offense rather than talking about or really acknowledging what the coaching staff can do to make it better. I don't know what else to call that but complacency.

The scheme is the scheme. To the extent people keep talking about bringing in a new 'passing game coordinator'  or bringing in fresh ideas as the sort of compromise alternative to firing Roman, it's pretty clear Harbaugh has no interest in doing that, either. It is what it is. 

 

Yeah you're certainly entitled to that opinion. 

I just disagree in that I think anyone expecting him to have gotten into detailed breakdowns as to what we're going to do to remedy the passing offense was never going to be placated. End of season announcements are always like this. It's been like 3 days since our season ended - I'm not expecting them to have an analytical, master-plan answer outside of "we need the passing game to be better". Again - I think people knew going in that they wouldn't get that sort of answer because that's never how Harbaugh's pressers have been but they want to be worked up right now and they want their pitchforks out about the offense so that's just more fuel to the "complacency" fire. 

This forum was up in arms about Harbaugh's "complacency" when he promoted Wink to DC after 2017. Just because things appear one way, or something is said one way, doesn't mean we have any sort of insight into their true offseason plans/changes. Harbaugh didn't say after that season "man our defense let us down this year because they weren't aggressive enough but don't worry moving forward our defense will be way more aggressive" but it turned out that way.

People want the specific, "here's exactly why our passing game sucked and here's exactly what we need to do to fix it" type of comments from coaches all the time and sure, that might be better for us as fans sometimes, but that's just not the way it works. At least not for us. I'm totally fine with him saying "we owe it to our offensive side of the ball to continue to build on that side of the ball in terms of our o-line, our playmakers, improving players we have. Improve our scheme." and then going to work to try to fix it. 

You're not and that's fine. But I think it's a mistake to try and psychoanalyze an end of season presser and deduce that Harbaugh just isn't going to change anything and is completely fine with the way things ended offensively. I'll start making those judgements once I see the actual offense again, not just based solely on coach speak in end of season pressers. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Ray Reed

[DontTazeMeBro]

5 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

We also have to factor in that we're facing in another pandemic offseason. Installing a brand new offense over Zoom to our young offense sounds like a disaster if we're being honest. This next year will be the true litmus test for this offense IMO.

Isn’t that pretty much what Cleveland did?

[SalvadorsDeli]

58 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Yeah you're certainly entitled to that opinion. 

I just disagree in that I think anyone expecting him to have gotten into detailed breakdowns as to what we're going to do to remedy the passing offense was never going to be placated. End of season announcements are always like this. It's been like 3 days since our season ended - I'm not expecting them to have an analytical, master-plan answer outside of "we need the passing game to be better". Again - I think people knew going in that they wouldn't get that sort of answer because that's never how Harbaugh's pressers have been but they want to be worked up right now and they want their pitchforks out about the offense so that's just more fuel to the "complacency" fire. 

Look I'd be more convinced by this if it had just been normal coachspeak and an overall impression that he was just speaking in generalities. It's not like I was expecting him to go up there and start talking about how we need to start running more rub routes or whatever. It's not that he didn't have some big analytical proposal on what he wanted to do 3 days after the season ended, it's that he clearly did put enough thought into it to come prepared with stats and metrics to push back on the idea that people should be asking about how the passing game can be improved. That feels different to me than just keeping your cards close to the vest. 

But I think this is just an area where we'll need to just agree to disagree. 

[M.10.E]

I think Greg Roman ranks #3 on my issues with the Ravens offense. Lamar's play and the OL are 1 & 2 (no order). Scheme only goes as far as the execution takes it.

It's easier for people to want to fire the OC than to admit our franchise QB kinda sucks in the playoffs (relative to his normal play).

Edited January 20, 2021 by M.10.E

[Ray Reed]

22 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

Look I'd be more convinced by this if it had just been normal coachspeak and an overall impression that he was just speaking in generalities. It's not like I was expecting him to go up there and start talking about how we need to start running more rub routes or whatever. It's not that he didn't have some big analytical proposal on what he wanted to do 3 days after the season ended, it's that he clearly did put enough thought into it to come prepared with stats and metrics to push back on the idea that people should be asking about how the passing game can be improved. That feels different to me than just keeping your cards close to the vest. 

But I think this is just an area where we'll need to just agree to disagree. 

Yep no shame in that. End of the day we both want our offense to get better next year haha

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

In terms of winning championships in today's NFL, where do you guys think the "run the ball and play great defense" formula is in terms of how accurate it still is?

[M.10.E]

14 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

In terms of winning championships in today's NFL, where do you guys think the "run the ball and play great defense" formula is in terms of how accurate it still is?

I think if you don't have an elite passing QB, it's the best strategy to have. Mainly the defense part. Last year you had the Titans, Ravens, & 49ers have some pretty darn good success with it. Just lost out to freaking Patrick Mahomes & that offense.

Edited January 20, 2021 by M.10.E