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2021 Offseason Discussion


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49 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

We will see if he will. He was held out pretty good in the playoffs and has a massive fumbling issue. 

He seems to play really well for 2-3 games at a time and then go dark for 2-3 games after that. He runs extremely hot and cold.

The Browns need a deep threat because as awesome as Jarvis is, he is best being a technician between 5-15 yards. The deep threat is OBJ. He just needs to return to his 2016-2017 form however thats possible.

 

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44 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

He seems to play really well for 2-3 games at a time and then go dark for 2-3 games after that. He runs extremely hot and cold.

The Browns need a deep threat because as awesome as Jarvis is, he is best being a technician between 5-15 yards. The deep threat is OBJ. He just needs to return to his 2016-2017 form however thats possible.

 

I don't want to over invest at wr either. 

With the construction of our team Higgins maybe a cap casualty. Also there is an abundance of decent receivers when compared with other positions, like db, dt and de. 

We have obj, don, and jarvis, if Baker cant get it done with them we have problems beyond retaining higgins.

Edited by Kiwibrown
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11 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

I don't want to over invest at wr either. 

With the construction of our team Higgins maybe a cap casualty. Also there is an abundance of decent receivers when compared with other positions, like db, dt and de. 

We have obj, don, and jarvis, if Baker cant get it done with them we have problems beyond retaining higgins.

Right, this offense will have Jarvis Landry, Odell Beckham Jr, Austin Hooper, Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt and you can kick in Donovan Peoples-Jones in the Higgins WR3 spot + David Njoku + Harrison Bryant.

That is MORE than enough top be top 5-10 in the NFL in offense regardless of what happens to Higgins.

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1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

Right, this offense will have Jarvis Landry, Odell Beckham Jr, Austin Hooper, Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt and you can kick in Donovan Peoples-Jones in the Higgins WR3 spot + David Njoku + Harrison Bryant.

That is MORE than enough top be top 5-10 in the NFL in offense regardless of what happens to Higgins.

Eh, there is definitely talent on offense but I don't know if that is a top 5-10 supporting cast on offense. There is no real #1 WR (unless OBJ finds a time machine) and no real field stretcher. The RBs are awesome. Hooper was meh, Bryant wasn't NFL caliber as a rookie and Njoku probably won't be here. DPJ did well and we'll see where that goes and Landry is a very solid #2.

I'm very happy with the talent we have on offense but it isn't comparable to the teams we saw in the SB or many in the playoffs as far as actual playmakers. We have a better RB situation than probably anyone and a top 5-10 offensive line. That is our bread and butter and still some games it was just stopped, mostly in the 2nd half of the season. As far as receiving options I'd put us at league average or slightly below just by guessing and not looking over rosters.

OBJ is way more hype than greatness at this point. Landry is a solid and slightly better than average #2. DPJ is still a question mark but we saw some good things and who knows maybe he turns into our #1. Chubb is a better receiving option than he showed in the playoffs and Hunt is a good receiver. Hooper as stated above was just okay, Bryant bad aside from flashes and Njoku saw very little action and I don't expect a return.

TLDR: We ain't all that. We don't have to be, we certainly have enough fire power on offense to compete with anyone if we field a dependable defense. Keep the line doing their thing and I'm not worried about the offense. I'd like to keep Higgins but if he requires a decent price tag we'll probably have to pick between him and OBJ. I don't personally have a preference, OBJ has the upside but I don't know if it's real anymore. Higgins is the better fit but he may get paid like a #2 and we can't really afford that.

The F.O. will be earning their money this offseason.

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7 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Right, this offense will have Jarvis Landry, Odell Beckham Jr, Austin Hooper, Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt and you can kick in Donovan Peoples-Jones in the Higgins WR3 spot + David Njoku + Harrison Bryant.

That is MORE than enough top be top 5-10 in the NFL in offense regardless of what happens to Higgins.

How many names on that list do you 100% trust?

 

I trust Jarvis, the RBs, and Higgins. Now I’m biased and would include DPJ, but any rationale person probably wouldn’t.

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34 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

How many names on that list do you 100% trust?

 

I trust Jarvis, the RBs, and Higgins. Now I’m biased and would include DPJ, but any rationale person probably wouldn’t.

Jarvis

The running backs 

The entire offensive line

Hooper is at least capable, albeit overpaid.

Higgins I don’t trust more than anyone else. Dude has major fumble issues. He’s an average at best #2.

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9 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

He seems to play really well for 2-3 games at a time and then go dark for 2-3 games after that. He runs extremely hot and cold.

The Browns need a deep threat because as awesome as Jarvis is, he is best being a technician between 5-15 yards. The deep threat is OBJ. He just needs to return to his 2016-2017 form however thats possible.

 

I mean, that’s like 4 years ago.

I’m not saying he can’t contribute, but I think people need to temper their expectations a bit. He hasn’t been “that guy” in a while and I can’t think of many examples of a guy having a 3-4 year dip in production only to become elite again.

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It blows my mind on how some of you value OBJ. Lol anyone and everyone knows baker was the one ****in up that relationship between QB to WR. OBJ is actually that great baker wanted to feed him. It's crazy that we have a player of his talent. Granted he tore an acl on an underthrown ball (lol) and didnt have him the rest of the year but I think you guys are looking at paper stats and not watching the double teams he still commands and just about the only receiver who can get separation. Regardless I think he ends up traded somewhere which I think is dumb but overall our QBOTF played better without him and that's not OBJ's fault. You're actually blind if you think so. 

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14 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Eh, there is definitely talent on offense but I don't know if that is a top 5-10 supporting cast on offense. There is no real #1 WR (unless OBJ finds a time machine) and no real field stretcher. The RBs are awesome. Hooper was meh, Bryant wasn't NFL caliber as a rookie and Njoku probably won't be here. DPJ did well and we'll see where that goes and Landry is a very solid #2.

If that is true we have a huge problem, 125 million vs the cap and an average offense.

With obj I hope that berry has stones and sees through the hype, and works out what he actually is. I imagine though jimmy will veto a trade because obj, still adds value to a franchise with Jersey and ticket sales.

14 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I'm very happy with the talent we have on offense but it isn't comparable to the teams we saw in the SB or many in the playoffs as far as actual playmakers. We have a better RB situation than probably anyone and a top 5-10 offensive line. That is our bread and butter and still some games it was just stopped, mostly in the 2nd half of the season. As far as receiving options I'd put us at league average or slightly below just by guessing and not looking over rosters.

OBJ is way more hype than greatness at this point. Landry is a solid and slightly better than average #2. DPJ is still a question mark but we saw some good things and who knows maybe he turns into our #1. Chubb is a better receiving option than he showed in the playoffs and Hunt is a good receiver. Hooper as stated above was just okay, Bryant bad aside from flashes and Njoku saw very little action and I don't expect a return.

TLDR: We ain't all that. We don't have to be, we certainly have enough fire power on offense to compete with anyone if we field a dependable defense. Keep the line doing their thing and I'm not worried about the offense. I'd like to keep Higgins but if he requires a decent price tag we'll probably have to pick between him and OBJ. I don't personally have a preference, OBJ has the upside but I don't know if it's real anymore. Higgins is the better fit but he may get paid like a #2 and we can't really afford that.

The F.O. will be earning their money this offseason.

We are in a good spot cap wise compared to the rest of the league, 12 teams are in the red. If we move on from obj and get out of his cap hit we are in a great place.

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1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said:

If we move on from obj and get out of his cap hit we are in a great place.

Which is another why if we can we should.

With the lower cap depressing salaries, we should be able to pick up some bargains with that extra space.

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38 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Which is another why if we can we should.

With the lower cap depressing salaries, we should be able to pick up some bargains with that extra space.

This could be the most interesting free agent period in a long time. Could be a lot of guys available in trade or playing on one year deals. 

Getting rid of obj opens up a world of opportunity for us, it could lead to higgins, a linebacker and a good sub dlineman.

Or even higgins and teller.

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2 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

If that is true we have a huge problem, 125 million vs the cap and an average offense.

With obj I hope that berry has stones and sees through the hype, and works out what he actually is. I imagine though jimmy will veto a trade because obj, still adds value to a franchise with Jersey and ticket sales.

I wasn't including the offensive line or QB. Our RBs get us close to top 10 and including Baker and the offensive line we certainly are top 10.

2 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

We are in a good spot cap wise compared to the rest of the league, 12 teams are in the red. If we move on from obj and get out of his cap hit we are in a great place.

We are in good shape in 2021 because of carry over. Bills and Titans are over the cap yet we have more money dedicated to salaries. There are only 10 teams in the league with a higher payroll than us and every one of them are in the negative for 2021 at an average in -28 million.

We were lucky that we had so much carry over from Sashi and co. that gives us the freedom we have in 2021. With the cap lowering we probably lose that benefit that we've been using for several years unfortunately.

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I understand wanting speed and athleticism at WR, it’s a need if we don’t keep OBJ.

 

However, it’s not a good idea for ALL of your WRs to be like that. The reason being, if your offensive line has any injuries your entire offense falls apart. Look at the Chiefs in the super bowl. They were super reliant on deep passes and got smoked once their offensive linemen got hurt. They couldn’t do anything against cover 2.

 

Seattle is another example.

 

You need a healthy balance between athleticism and intelligence.

Edited by candyman93
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14 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I understand wanting speed and athleticism at WR, it’s a need if we keep OBJ.

fify

OBJ no longer is the player on which his reputation was built.

 

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