Broncos Free Agency Thread

[jsthomp2007]

2 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

I find this point compelling. In the (not unlikely) event that both a) We don't get Watson via trade and b) Lock doesn't make the leap - we are in an even tougher spot at QB.  Watson is the only no-brainer "do it if you can" option but otherwise we're left with several imperfect alternatives. 

And it looks like we missed out on signing Flacco.

[broncosfan_101]

44 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

There's no logical reason for Paton to risk his job with a QB draft pick this year. Lock is tied to Elway. New ownership/coaching will want their QB choice so why not provide everyone the opportunity to succeed...or fail.

Paton got a 6 year deal. He could grab a new QB this offseason and still have enough leash to get another one in a few years if he flops. 
 

But again I ask: if we go 8-8 this season with little growth from Lock, what’s your plan for getting a franchise QB?

[The Helicopter]

4 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Paton got a 6 year deal. He could grab a new QB this offseason and still have enough leash to get another one in a few years if he flops. 
 

But again I ask: if we go 8-8 this season with little growth from Lock, what’s your plan for getting a franchise QB?

Assuming an ownership change/overhaul with new coaches...we jettison Lock, don't resign our 1 year defensive player contracts, suck bad for the 2022 season and draft a QB in 2023.

[paul-mac]

The only way George Paton will "risk his job" is by not winning enough games. It really is that simple.

 

I'm not saying we WILL draft a QB in the top 10, but if Paton feels that's the best way to improve our football team then it will happen. The interest being shown in Lance and Jones isn't a smokescreen. I don't think the FO have fallen head over heels in love with one of the QBs yet but they're definitely interested in getting to know them.

[grizmo78]

9 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

Assuming an ownership change/overhaul with new coaches...we jettison Lock, don't resign our 1 year defensive player contracts, suck bad for the 2022 season and draft a QB in 2023.

To add, 8-8 puts us around pick 15. Assuming Chicago is around the same, pick 15 and 16 is theoretically worth pick 4 in any given draft. I see that at minimum net even of our position now, with the upside of seeing how Lock turns out, Chicago doing worse and having a premium pick because of it, another QB (Watson, Rodgers, Wilson, etc.) becoming available and having ammunition for them. 

[The Helicopter]

11 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

The only way George Paton will "risk his job" is by not winning enough games. It really is that simple.

Paton doesn't need to win this year. That's on the coaches he didn't hire.

Edited March 24, 2021 by The Helicopter

[broncosfan_101]

3 hours ago, The Helicopter said:

Assuming an ownership change/overhaul with new coaches...we jettison Lock, don't resign our 1 year defensive player contracts, suck bad for the 2022 season and draft a QB in 2023.

So we’re wasting a pretty great win-now defence in favour of a 2022 tear down in hopes of having a franchise QB ready for 2024? And if that one doesn’t work out?? Now Paton’s used almost his entire contract length and hasn’t won yet. He gone.

I’m thinking of the situation the Chargers were in 15 years ago. Brees wasn’t working out, they draft Rivers. Oh no, Brees actually hits! Is it really a bad thing to have to choose between two franchise QB’s?? I mean, ideally you make that decision at a time when you can still recoup assets for one of them instead of seeing the other walk as a FA, but for real, if you make the move for a QB and the worst case scenario is you get a Rivers-caliber QB for the next decade+, where’s the loss?

[germ-x]

38 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

So we’re wasting a pretty great win-now defence in favour of a 2022 tear down in hopes of having a franchise QB ready for 2024? And if that one doesn’t work out?? Now Paton’s used almost his entire contract length and hasn’t won yet. He gone.

I’m thinking of the situation the Chargers were in 15 years ago. Brees wasn’t working out, they draft Rivers. Oh no, Brees actually hits! Is it really a bad thing to have to choose between two franchise QB’s?? I mean, ideally you make that decision at a time when you can still recoup assets for one of them instead of seeing the other walk as a FA, but for real, if you make the move for a QB and the worst case scenario is you get a Rivers-caliber QB for the next decade+, where’s the loss?

This is where I am at.  I get all of the hype around trading back and getting a future 1 and it giving Denver ammo to get Watson/Wilson or drafting a QB in 2022.  However, all of that is a finger cross that things workout right. If Denver likes any of the QBs and one is there at pick #9 it should absolutely be the selection.  

[paul-mac]

15 minutes ago, germ-x said:

This is where I am at.  I get all of the hype around trading back and getting a future 1 and it giving Denver ammo to get Watson/Wilson or drafting a QB in 2022.  However, all of that is a finger cross that things workout right. If Denver likes any of the QBs and one is there at pick #9 it should absolutely be the selection.  

That’s a big if.

 

I figure that Lawrence, Wilson, Fields and Lance are all long gone by pick 9. So really it’s a question of whether the FO think Mac Jones is an upgrade over Lock.

 

I see Jones having an Andy Dalton level career. That’s not a bad thing, Dalton was able to win a lot of games on a talented roster, and a talented roster is what we have. So I think Jones could be a good addition to our team. But I’m also higher than Lock than some and think he has the ability to do well.

 

I almost think if we are going QB, I’d rather go all in and move up into the top 5 and get Fields or Wilson. Could be a long time before we are picking in the top 10 again. 

[germ-x]

53 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

That’s a big if.

 

I figure that Lawrence, Wilson, Fields and Lance are all long gone by pick 9. So really it’s a question of whether the FO think Mac Jones is an upgrade over Lock.

 

I see Jones having an Andy Dalton level career. That’s not a bad thing, Dalton was able to win a lot of games on a talented roster, and a talented roster is what we have. So I think Jones could be a good addition to our team. But I’m also higher than Lock than some and think he has the ability to do well.

 

I almost think if we are going QB, I’d rather go all in and move up into the top 5 and get Fields or Wilson. Could be a long time before we are picking in the top 10 again. 

I think Mac Jones is in the same tier as Wilson/Fields/Lance.  I personally like him more than all 3, especially Lance. 

[grizmo78]

1 hour ago, broncosfan_101 said:

So we’re wasting a pretty great win-now defence in favour of a 2022 tear down in hopes of having a franchise QB ready for 2024? And if that one doesn’t work out?? Now Paton’s used almost his entire contract length and hasn’t won yet. He gone.

I’m thinking of the situation the Chargers were in 15 years ago. Brees wasn’t working out, they draft Rivers. Oh no, Brees actually hits! Is it really a bad thing to have to choose between two franchise QB’s?? I mean, ideally you make that decision at a time when you can still recoup assets for one of them instead of seeing the other walk as a FA, but for real, if you make the move for a QB and the worst case scenario is you get a Rivers-caliber QB for the next decade+, where’s the loss?

You're assuming best case scenario... The flip side of this is we trade up using our first this year and next year, draft Fields or Lance who turn out to be a Trubuisky or Winston. 

Ultimately the only way your argument makes sense is if you think one of the QBs after Lawrence can be a top 10 QB. I would love to know who that is and why you think they are. But if your argument is "draft any QB in the top of the draft" then worst case scenario we're set back 3-4 years if we miss on them. 2021 learning year, 2022 no first rounder, 2023 same situation we're in now with a talent passer but under performing, 2024 new QB from draft. 

By trading down and accumulating picks next year it gives us a ton of flexibility going forward along with the advantage of seeing how Lock plays this year (with the addition of a 1st round player at another position), ***** the availability of other top QBs (Watson, Wilson, Rogers), and chance Chicago bottoms out and we get a top pick without needing to trade tons of capital in the following draft. Again, worst case scenario from trading down and getting a first next year is we're in the same spot we're in now but with additional draft capital. 

[broncosfan_101]

26 minutes ago, grizmo78 said:

You're assuming best case scenario... The flip side of this is we trade up using our first this year and next year, draft Fields or Lance who turn out to be a Trubuisky or Winston. 

Ultimately the only way your argument makes sense is if you think one of the QBs after Lawrence can be a top 10 QB. I would love to know who that is and why you think they are. But if your argument is "draft any QB in the top of the draft" then worst case scenario we're set back 3-4 years if we miss on them. 2021 learning year, 2022 no first rounder, 2023 same situation we're in now with a talent passer but under performing, 2024 new QB from draft. 

By trading down and accumulating picks next year it gives us a ton of flexibility going forward along with the advantage of seeing how Lock plays this year (with the addition of a 1st round player at another position), ***** the availability of other top QBs (Watson, Wilson, Rogers), and chance Chicago bottoms out and we get a top pick without needing to trade tons of capital in the following draft. Again, worst case scenario from trading down and getting a first next year is we're in the same spot we're in now but with additional draft capital. 

I’d sell just about everything for Zach Wilson. He moves really well, makes decisions quickly, and has more than enough arm talent. I think he’s a long term top 10 QB. 
 

As for the trade down, I really don’t hate it! But there are some issues. The only way we’re getting a 2022 1st is if someone desires Mac Jones, *and he’s still there.* Not a given. But even if he is, why don’t we want him? Is there gonna be a better QB available in the next draft? Are we not gonna be telegraphing our unique desperation in needing to trade up in 2022, unless our additional 1st (Chicago?) reeeeally bottoms out?? Talk about a gigantic risk. Honestly, even if there’s hope for Lock, you won’t be able to convince me that this isn’t our best chance to add a franchise QB in the next 2-3 years. 

[rcpbawler]

35 minutes ago, grizmo78 said:

You're assuming best case scenario... The flip side of this is we trade up using our first this year and next year, draft Fields or Lance who turn out to be a Trubuisky or Winston. 

Ultimately the only way your argument makes sense is if you think one of the QBs after Lawrence can be a top 10 QB. I would love to know who that is and why you think they are. But if your argument is "draft any QB in the top of the draft" then worst case scenario we're set back 3-4 years if we miss on them. 2021 learning year, 2022 no first rounder, 2023 same situation we're in now with a talent passer but under performing, 2024 new QB from draft. 

By trading down and accumulating picks next year it gives us a ton of flexibility going forward along with the advantage of seeing how Lock plays this year (with the addition of a 1st round player at another position), ***** the availability of other top QBs (Watson, Wilson, Rogers), and chance Chicago bottoms out and we get a top pick without needing to trade tons of capital in the following draft. Again, worst case scenario from trading down and getting a first next year is we're in the same spot we're in now but with additional draft capital. 

This all depends on how you feel about the top QBs this year. I'm very confident in Wilson's ability to come in and upgrade the offense. Fields as well. I think that Lance can come in and do exciting things as well with the added upside of having a Josh Allen-esque ceiling. Mac Jones, I think could enjoy the most rookie success with obviously the less optimistic long term potential. Any team willing to neglect a position because "well, if it doesn't work out then we'll just draft a guy next year" is probably poised for disappointment, especially if there isn't a Lawrence level prospect.

So, yeah, if you're not enamored with the QB class, then it's obviously not worth it. I believe all of the above provide an upgrade over Lock, who, optimistically, I think has a Derek Carr like ceiling. Top 10-15 QB isn't gonna be enough to consistently win the AFCW, let alone be consistent contenders imo. It's not often you find a QB class with, general consensus, 5 top ten QBs, let alone have a top ten draft pick in that class (with a GLARING hole at the position). Gambling an entire year on a Drew Lock that hasn't shown anything more than "maybe someday he can be Derek Carr" is a waste of a season imo. 

If George Paton makes his decision on the QB of 2021 based on what will give him the longest leash as opposed to helping the team win (both for 2021 and beyond) then I'm not sure he's the guy. Fwiw I think there's almost no chance he gambles it all with Lock.

[broncosfan_101]

2 hours ago, germ-x said:

This is where I am at.  I get all of the hype around trading back and getting a future 1 and it giving Denver ammo to get Watson/Wilson or drafting a QB in 2022.  However, all of that is a finger cross that things workout right. If Denver likes any of the QBs and one is there at pick #9 it should absolutely be the selection.  

Trade up. Make the move for Your Guy. Again, if Lock takes the leap, a team will absolutely give you a 1st+ in next year’s draft if you wanna move Wilson/Fields/Lance next spring, especially if the QB talent available is as poor as it currently looks. 

[anewdawn]

7 hours ago, The Helicopter said:

There's no logical reason for Paton to risk his job with a QB draft pick this year. Lock is tied to Elway. New ownership/coaching will want their QB choice so why not provide everyone the opportunity to succeed...or fail.

I think Paton has seen the frustration that needing a qb brings.  Look at what they went through in Minnesota and thank god they signed that pos Cousins over us.  Not sure how going through all that qb ineffectiveness molds Paton but I got to think he is seriously considering one of the big 4 qb's in the draft.  Paton need look no further than his last four years with the Vikes to see that nothing else matters than QB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!