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AnAngryAmerican

By AnAngryAmerican
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Cutler06

Cutler06

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On 5/20/2021 at 12:51 PM, broncofan48 said:

Jokes aside I like how this offense is being structured;

Hamper is the deep threat speed guy, Jeudy should be able to roast any CB2 or 3, Fant is a huge mismatch on LB or S and then Patrick and Sutton are hard covers with their size on the boundary.

 

And the minute extra DBs are brought in, we have the OL and hopefully now the RBs to really make teams pay

I like the way you’ve laid this out, Sutton, Jeudy , and Hamler on the 2nd/3rd and longs or Sutton, Jeudy, and Patrick on running plays punishing the DBs. Can’t wait to see JaVonte’s bruising style of play against the Chiefs and Raiders

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jsthomp2007

jsthomp2007

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On 5/20/2021 at 2:51 PM, broncofan48 said:

Jokes aside I like how this offense is being structured;

Hamper is the deep threat speed guy, Jeudy should be able to roast any CB2 or 3, Fant is a huge mismatch on LB or S and then Patrick and Sutton are hard covers with their size on the boundary.e

 

And the minute extra DBs are brought in, we have the OL and hopefully now the RBs to really make teams pay

Just need a qb to get the ball to them

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AKRNA

AKRNA

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12 hours ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

So I assume the Rodgers trade is being finalized today.. right? Right?

Looks like we'll be sticking with what we've got at QB. Shocking I tell you, absolutely shocking! Who'd have ever thought?

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AnAngryAmerican

AnAngryAmerican

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On 6/3/2021 at 12:36 AM, AKRNA said:

Looks like we'll be sticking with what we've got at QB. Shocking I tell you, absolutely shocking! Who'd have ever thought?

I posted this in the QB thread but it bears repeating here. 

 

FWIW, yesterday on The Fan Mike Klis was on talking about what he's seen at OTAs and discussion inevitably turned to the QBs and Klis said, as of now, he would "bet $0.05 on Aaron Rodgers being the QB in week 1, $0.03 on Teddy and $0.02 on Lock." 

Now, Klis is not known as the most clairvoyant and leaves something to be desired as a straight analyst, but I think his putting the most money on Aaron is significant. He also stated, unequivocally, that if Rodgers does become available we are "far and away" the leading landing spot, saying Paton will be aggressive in his pursuit and the only question that remains is who blinks first, Aaron or the Packers FO. 

 

If we do stick with what we have, at this point, I think it's almost certain that Teddy will be the starter. You have a conservative, defensive head coach who is on the hot seat, he's virtually guaranteed to go with the safe, reliable veteran and hope that we can scratch out a enough wins for him to keep his job with a game-manger QB coupled with a good defense and running game. 

IMO this is the worst possible outcome. We know, a) this formula doesn't really work in the modern NFL, b) we play in a division with a top-2 QB and another one that appears to be an emerging superstar who now has a real OL in front of him, c) Vic is a terrible game day coach and, d) while a high-floor, low-ceiling game-manager QB can probably get us to around .500 if the defense meets expectations, that's a spot called NFL purgatory - not good enough to be a serious contender but not bad enough to get a top draft pick and thus chance at an elite QB prospect. 

In short, starting Teddy means 2021 is a wasted season that will continue to keep this team mired in mediocrity, no matter good of a roster Paton is able to assemble around an, at best, average QB. 

I'd start Drew if we don't acquire Aaron. The reasoning in very simple; with Drew's physical skills he has a Josh Allen-like ceiling, i.e. a Super Bowl caliber QB (not saying he has shown that, at all, but the raw physical tools are there), but also an outright bust or, at best, career backup floor. I'd rather go 4-13 and blow up the mediocre coaching staff and get a real QB than go 9-8, land the #21 overall pick, and be stuck in purgatory for another handful of seasons. 

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jolly red giant

jolly red giant

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On 6/4/2021 at 6:39 PM, AnAngryAmerican said:

If we do stick with what we have, at this point, I think it's almost certain that Teddy will be the starter. You have a conservative, defensive head coach who is on the hot seat, he's virtually guaranteed to go with the safe, reliable veteran and hope that we can scratch out a enough wins for him to keep his job with a game-manger QB coupled with a good defense and running game. 

IMO this is the worst possible outcome. We know, a) this formula doesn't really work in the modern NFL, b) we play in a division with a top-2 QB and another one that appears to be an emerging superstar who now has a real OL in front of him, c) Vic is a terrible game day coach and, d) while a high-floor, low-ceiling game-manager QB can probably get us to around .500 if the defense meets expectations, that's a spot called NFL purgatory - not good enough to be a serious contender but not bad enough to get a top draft pick and thus chance at an elite QB prospect. 

In short, starting Teddy means 2021 is a wasted season that will continue to keep this team mired in mediocrity, no matter good of a roster Paton is able to assemble around an, at best, average QB. 

At the moment Bridgewater is significantly ahead of Lock - because Lock simply has not developed over the past two seasons. Now Lock may make a jump - but if he doesn't the Bridgewater is significantly better and deserves to start.

I disagree with some of your assessments -

1. I don't think that Fangio is as much on the hot seat as you imply. I get the impression that Paton and Fangio have a very good working relationship and I think he has a longer leash than you suggest.

2. I don't think that you can be so definitive in claiming that a game-manager at QB cannot win the SB - Nick Foles won the SB four years ago. Two of the last three were won by Brady which kinda distorts thing - and when the Rams got to the SB they had Goff at QB. Five years ago the Broncos won the SB with a crippled Manning and a top ranked defence. Now the recent modern NFL does favour the hot shot QB - and you have a much better chance of winning it than with a game manager - but that doesn't rule out the prospect.

3. There is no doubt that we are in a division with two very good QB - but every team has to play 17 games and all you can do is play whoever is in front of you and do your best.

4. I don't agree that Fangio is a terrible game day coach - there are certainly issues regarding clock management - but his teams are very well prepared, never give up and do try and win. It is not easy to win games when you have the worst starting QB in the NFL, no matter how good your game day management is.

5. I think that this roster with Bridgewater at QB will be better than .500 - I wouldn't rule out a 10-7 season for them. Furthermore - given the improvements to the roster and the return of some big players - next season will be better than last season even with Lock at QB. 

6. 2021 with Teddy might be a wasted season - but if Lock doesn't make a big leap then it is a wasted season with him as well. If he cannot beat out Bridgewater then he will never be an NFL starting QB.

7. Paton has to solve the QB problem. Even if he gets Rodgers he has probably a three year window to solve the problem long-term. Finding a franchise QB that will lead the team for the next 15 years is not an easy task and there are few teams in that situation - and many that do have franchise QBs do not win the SB more than once or twice - Wilson has one - Rodgers has one - the Mannings got two each - Brees has one - Rothlesberger has two but none in the past 12 years. A Brady does not come around every day and win 7 SBs in 20 years. In the last ten years Flacco and Foles have won and Kaepernick, Newton, Ryan, Goff and Garoppolo have all got to the SB.

We will continue to debate this until Paton makes a move that leads to some degree of long-term QB solution. On top of that I want Fangio to put the best team on the filed and to win as many games as possible.

Edited by jolly red giant
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AnAngryAmerican

AnAngryAmerican

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On 6/6/2021 at 10:19 AM, jolly red giant said:

At the moment Bridgewater is significantly ahead of Lock - because Lock simply has not developed over the past two seasons. Now Lock may make a jump - but if he doesn't the Bridgewater is significantly better and deserves to start.

I disagree with some of your assessments -

1. I don't think that Fangio is as much on the hot seat as you imply. I get the impression that Paton and Fangio have a very good working relationship and I think he has a longer leash than you suggest.

2. I don't think that you can be so definitive in claiming that a game-manager at QB cannot win the SB - Nick Foles won the SB four years ago. Two of the last three were won by Brady which kinda distorts thing - and when the Rams got to the SB they had Goff at QB. Five years ago the Broncos won the SB with a crippled Manning and a top ranked defence. Now the recent modern NFL does favour the hot shot QB - and you have a much better chance of winning it than with a game manager - but that doesn't rule out the prospect.

3. There is no doubt that we are in a division with two very good QB - but every team has to play 17 games and all you can do is play whoever is in front of you and do your best.

4. I don't agree that Fangio is a terrible game day coach - there are certainly issues regarding clock management - but his teams are very well prepared, never give up and do try and win. It is not easy to win games when you have the worst starting QB in the NFL, no matter how good your game day management is.

5. I think that this roster with Bridgewater at QB will be better than .500 - I wouldn't rule out a 10-7 season for them. Furthermore - given the improvements to the roster and the return of some big players - next season will be better than last season even with Lock at QB. 

6. 2021 with Teddy might be a wasted season - but if Lock doesn't make a big leap then it is a wasted season with him as well. If he cannot beat out Bridgewater then he will never be an NFL starting QB.

7. Paton has to solve the QB problem. Even if he gets Rodgers he has probably a three year window to solve the problem long-term. Finding a franchise QB that will lead the team for the next 15 years is not an easy task and there are few teams in that situation - and many that do have franchise QBs do not win the SB more than once or twice - Wilson has one - Rodgers has one - the Mannings got two each - Brees has one - Rothlesberger has two but none in the past 12 years. A Brady does not come around every day and win 7 SBs in 20 years. In the last ten years Flacco and Foles have won and Kaepernick, Newton, Ryan, Goff and Garoppolo have all got to the SB.

We will continue to debate this until Paton makes a move that leads to some degree of long-term QB solution. On top of that I want Fangio to put the best team on the filed and to win as many games as possible.

I do think he is on the hot seat. Not only does he have an awful record, a time-honored NFL tradition is that new GMs generally want their own HCs. I think there is a measure of professional respect between Vic and Paton but I don’t think that makes his job any safer. It’s playoffs or a pink slip for Vic this year. 

The things with the QBs, and I agree, that if Drew hasn’t made strides with a real offseason and continuity with Shurmur & Co. then the die is cast that he won’t become a franchise QB. My point was simply that we should at least give him a shot to start the season because his physical skills give him a much higher ceiling than Teddy, who is the definition of a Honda Civic of QBs. 

There are always exceptions. Goff and Foles are better QBs (or were during their SB runs) than anything Teddy has ever shown. Truth is an elite QB is virtually a requirement for sustained success in the 2021. NFL. The “final four” QBs last year were Maholmes, Rodgers, Brady and Allen - three of those guys are first-ballot Hall of Farmers and Allen’s play last year was elite; he could not be far away from joining the future gold jacket club. 

Does anyone here really see Teddy as a long-term answer at QB who is going to lead us to multiple AFCCGs and a super bowl or two? I don’t care what kind of a roster he has around him, we will not be legit contenders with Teddy at QB (and I love Teddy the person and Teddy the reliable backup, I’m it bashing him). But starting him makes for a wasted season. 

As I said, sans Aaron landing here, I’d rather get a definitive answer on Drew, yay or nay, than sputter our way to a .500ish season, at best a one-and-done WC berth season, and end up stuck in purgatory. 

In the end, to be honest, I think this is all moot and Aaron will be here by August 1. 

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