Watson trade talk!!!!!!

[drew39k]

1 hour ago, xrade said:

The eye test does show Flacco, in his limited playing time, to be better than Sam. You mention one int on a deep throw with 5+ min on the clock in the 4th Q with the Jets up by 7.  Flacco made a bad decision deep pass. At least he can throw a deep pass. But since we will never agree on that we move along.

Ask yourself why Flacco was allowed to audible and Sam was not. Could it be Sam was incapable of it?  Sam had the same weapons for more games.

The Pats game was one of the first game Mims, Perriman, and Crowder played together. Flaccos favorite target that game was Perriman. Sam played with the same three WR when he returned agains the Fins and predictably had a 0 TD, 2 int game. Crowder was Sam’s favorite target all year. Why? Because he feared going down the field with the ball. I am not sure if he feared throwing the long ball which we all know he was not especially good at or feared the amount of time it took to throw the ball deep. He always felt he was being pressured even if there was none. He had no poise in the pocket. Watch Flacco, more poise.

I have no bias towards Sam. I loved the pick when we got him. I was hopeful he was going to be better in 2020 after a decent last half of the 2019 season. Then I watched game after game of him making bad decisions and dumping off the ball and taking bad sacks and playing scared. I wanted Sam to be it but has shown he was not. That was really cemented in me when Flacco did come in and looked less crappy in the same crappy O. Then I knew it wasn’t just the bad O but Sam as well. If you want to ignore the facts because you still think Sam is good. Fine. I will not argue with someone who knows he is right despite the actual evidence to the contrary. I would ask what skills he has displayed that you speak of.

Again you are completely disregarding Gases decision to give away play calling duties when Flacco was in then take them back once Sam was healthy. That's why Flacco was given more control. It's the same reason Crowder was used more with sam and Perriman with Flacco. Gase loves throwing everything short at the guy in the slot. It's what he's called his entire career, whether here, miami  or chicago. He doesn't know how to adjust either. Why do you keep disregarding the change in play calling duties? Do you think that the person calling the plays and their tendencies have no impact on an offense?

The truth is that neither Darnold nor Flacco looked good. Both took horrid sacks and turned the ball over. It's a joke to pretend there wasn't blatant bias by our fan base on this forum when it came to evaluating the two. Flacco comes in a throws wild deep balls into double coverage that result in picks or near picks and he is cheered for taking chances and stretching the field. Darnold takes a deep shot and it's tipped by the receiver into the dbs hands fora pick  or Jeff smith runs the wrong route and it's just another reason Sam sucks. Or how about in the Raiders game when  becton completely blew his assignment on a pair of plays where he didn't even slow his guy down. Both times it lead to strip sacks and Sam took the blame despite the plays being entirely on Becton.

I'm not out here saying Sam isn't the problem. He is certainly part of it. There were some horrific decision made by him. That said virtually every QB makes bone headed decision here and there. The problem is that our team is so bad that every single bad decision turns into nightmare fuel because our team cannot cover for them. 

[xrade]

1 hour ago, drew39k said:

Why do you keep disregarding the change in play calling duties? Do you think that the person calling the plays and their tendencies have no impact on an offense?

And why do you disregard the reason why play calling duties were removed?  Why was Sam not allowed to audible and J or was allowed?

 

1 hour ago, drew39k said:

Both took horrid sacks and turned the ball over

Funny, I don’t recall Joe rolling out into a LB’s arms with a wide open Cager in the middle of the field.  Here’s the link:  

You also must have missed when I stated Joe’s int rate (2.2) was lower than Sam’s (3.3). Yes both threw ints like all QB’s do but Sam was way worse. Sam ranked 31st in that category. If Joe qualified for a ranking he would be about 18-19. 

 

1 hour ago, drew39k said:

Darnold takes a deep shot and it's tipped by the receiver into the dbs hands fora pick  or Jeff smith runs the wrong route and it's just another reason Sam sucks.

What did Sam say he worked last offseason?  Even he knew his deep ball needed work. All QB’s have tipped balls and have receivers run wrong routes. I don’t count them agains the QB. But let’s relive some Sam ints in 2020. 

I particularly love the Miami ints. How about the throw directly into JA’s hands that even he was surprised it was thrown to him and dropped it. By the way, watch the video and let me know which ones were tipped ints. 

 

2 hours ago, drew39k said:

That said virtually every QB makes bone headed decision here and there

It just seems Sam makes more boneheaded mistakes than most. I am not a Sam hater. I really wanted this kid to succeed. I had hope until this season but I blamed it mostly on gase and a bad OL and lack of weapons. Once I saw Flacco play, I realized Sam was just as much if not more of the issue. Sam is ranked near the bottom of almost every statistical category for an NFL QB. That can’t be ignored and placing blame on everyone but him is just sticking ones head in the sand. Can Sam become a good QB? Maybe, but it will have to be on a team with a good infrastructure (coaches, players and FO). He will need time to rebuild his confidence and not play scared. Hence why Pitt would be great. Sit behind Ben, learn, practice, start in 2022. He will be better but he may not be a lot better.

[Jag68Sid87]

20 hours ago, xrade said:

I agree with most things you say, but I would have little doubt the rookie would be starting by mid season. This is why it is crucial we get a vet QB that will accept the role which also includes mentoring.

Also, I want to win next year and not have to change the channel at half time, but not at the expense of sustainability. Give me improvement this year and playoff ready in 2022.

Teams need to learn from the Dolphins' mistake this past season. I believe there is no way the Dolphins miss the playoffs if Fitzpatrick would have remained the starter. Instead, Miami stuck to "the plan" and missed the playoffs. I am saying this as a huge fan of Tua, too. I would trade Darnold for Tua tomorrow if that were possible. 

However, a young team in rebuilding mode actually making the playoffs is huge for an organization, and for the team's development. It breeds more winning. I think the Fish screwed the pooch with that decision.

We must learn from that.

 

17 hours ago, drew39k said:

I cannot believe people are advocating bringing back Joe Flacco. The dude looked worse than Darnold... His yolo pick that cost us the Patriots game was unforgivable. If you just need a punching bag to start the year and Flacco is your best option just keep Sam for the season and let your beloved rookie beat him after x many weeks. Joe flacco is NEVER the answer.

 

16 hours ago, xrade said:

Flacco had a higher QBR and lower int rate on the same crappy team with the same crappy play calling. Sam did have a higher completion % but that is to be expected with the dink and dunk crap Sam utilized as evidence by his lower Y/A. Sam also had a higher sack % which for a young mobile QB should not happen vs an old statue. This tells me Sam does not have good pocket awareness.  Flacco had 3 TD’s and 262 yards against NE. Sam’s highest yards per  game occurred in week 16 against the Pats he threw for 266 with 1 TD and 2 ints. All this scrutiny bears the eye test. Flacco was a better QB for the Jets than Sam.

I am not suggesting Joe should be a starting QB for this team. I am suggesting there are worse vet QB’s than Flacco to mentor and start the season while the rookie learns.  Also, Sam must go.

 

I think Flacco proved two things for us last season: 

- HE is not the answer.

- Sam Darnold is also not the answer, since his play was worse than Flacco's.

 

I don't think we need to worry about Flacco...I don't think he is a fit for a West Coast offense. He likes to air it out, not let the receiver use his skills to rack up YAC.

 

[Dr.O]

Sams bad,has talent, but is bad

[xrade]

48 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

I believe there is no way the Dolphins miss the playoffs if Fitzpatrick would have remained the starter. Instead, Miami stuck to "the plan" and missed the playoffs

I agree with the assessment but maybe not the reason. Miami does not just want to a one year playoff team the want what JD wants - long term sustainability. They needed to see what they have in the #5 draft pick so they can decide on picking a QB in this years draft or building the team with talent around him. Tua starter week 8 and Houston was 1-6 at the time. Miami probably guessed they would have a high FRP to get a new QB if Tua was abysmal (which I believe he was not considering his crap weapons).  It is the long game not the short game.

[ekill08x]

24 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

Sams bad,has talent, but is bad

Both can be true. Might also not have enough going on upstairs to really ever be great either. 

[Dr.O]

6 minutes ago, ekill08x said:

Both can be true. Might also not have enough going on upstairs to really ever be great either. 

It’s better for us to start over, extends leash on Coaches staff/GM and the expectations of the team

[ekill08x]

Just now, Dr.O said:

It’s better for us to start over, extends leash on Coaches staff/GM and the expectations of the team

It really is the only move. Keeping Sam in year 4 just doesn't make sense from any standpoint. If this was year 3, different story, but with his contract coming to expire and a big regression regardless of the excuses, we are starting from scratch. If the coaches, scouts and GM really like a QB at 2 it makes the most sense for where we are as a team, which is the bottom. 

[Bianconero]

It sounds like Watson is going to be traded and we're the preferred spot for Houston - just need to execute

[Bobby816]

6 minutes ago, Bianconero said:

It sounds like Watson is going to be traded and we're the preferred spot for Houston - just need to execute

I think HOU wants quantity more so than quality

[Bianconero]

3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I think HOU wants quantity more so than quality

I think they want the #2 pick in order to pick the second best QB in the draft

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, Bianconero said:

I think they want the #2 pick in order to pick the second best QB in the draft

I hope and wish that to be true. That they give a discount to us Bc of that exact reason. But JD doesn’t seem to be a guy giving up a huge package for Watson. I could easily see him not wanting to give up that 2nd pick and really much more than that for him. And HOU won’t do that

[Bianconero]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

I hope and wish that to be true. That they give a discount to us Bc of that exact reason. But JD doesn’t seem to be a guy giving up a huge package for Watson. I could easily see him not wanting to give up that 2nd pick and really much more than that for him. And HOU won’t do that

I think you need to give Joe more credit - he compiled these picks to have this exact leverage to do whatever we want to do

BTW - I saw your post about Texas. I was in Dallas and Frisco this week. Frisco is cool.

[Bobby816]

8 minutes ago, Bianconero said:

I think you need to give Joe more credit - he compiled these picks to have this exact leverage to do whatever we want to do

BTW - I saw your post about Texas. I was in Dallas and Frisco this week. Frisco is cool.

Ya Frisco has grown a ton the last 5-10 years. Really happening out there now. I live more west of there between Dallas and Fort Worth. 

[Heymangold]

It doesn’t matter if they want quantity - if Watson doesn’t want to goto the team that offers the most picks, it won’t happen.  If the Jets and say dolphins are his list, I think they’d opt for the 2nd pick over the 3rd.  
 

McClain reportedly said that the odds of the Texans drafting Fields is low, being that he has the same agent as Watson, making that 2nd pick much more valuable.