Watson trade talk!!!!!!

[Jag68Sid87]

See, I think we need to push the Darnold/McCown angle onto the Texans. The Texans will want Sam Darnold if forced to trade Watson. That is what I believe. The connection to McCown makes too much sense. Heck, one could even think that the plan all along for Easterby/Caserio was to get a QB that already has a relationship with McCown (who in my mind is clearly the next HC of the Texans). Darnold is perfect for Houston...he is white, aw shucks and very very prototypical. Texas loves prototypical QBs.

Plus, the Texans may be able to save face more quickly with a QB that already has three years experience than if they went with a raw rookie (who probably should not be starting in 2021). 

I don't think there is a team in the NFL who would want Darnold more than Houston (SF, maybe. NE, perhaps. Detroit, possibly. But not MORE than Hou imo).

So that is why I want Douglas to sit tight and not panic here. Do not deal the No. 2 pick. Keep that pick because drafting either Sewell (OT) or Smith (WR) would be massive for this franchise. 

Offer Darnold, the 23rd overall pick, an extra second-rounder this year, our first in 2022 and a first in 2023. That should be enough. We should play up the fact that if Miami offers more draft capital, the Texans would be forced to either draft a rookie QB and start anew or take Tua (I love Tua, but I doubt Houston does).

As a final point, I would also be totally ok if Miami got Watson, gave up a ton of assets in the process and we got involved by swapping Darnold to Houston for Tua. 

We get Tua, dump Darnold, keep our draft picks and move on.

[Jag68Sid87]

3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I do get this side of it... but we’ve given Darnold nothing to work with. So he has been pissing into the wind for 3 years now. What would getting a new QB do that would make it any different? Get them talent around them? Well maybe we should try that with a guy already on the roster 1st.

 

If Darnold is truly that awful we will be drafting high again next year.

True, but we can avoid that situation by cutting the chord on 14 now. I'd rather just about any other QB...guys with more upside, or guys who are more proven.

Darnold is in no man's land.

[Rockice_8]

54 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I do get this side of it... but we’ve given Darnold nothing to work with. So he has been pissing into the wind for 3 years now. What would getting a new QB do that would make it any different? Get them talent around them? Well maybe we should try that with a guy already on the roster 1st.

 

If Darnold is truly that awful we will be drafting high again next year.

If a top QB is there you take them.  Darnold is horrible no matter what you think about his surrounding cast.  You can't bank on next year.  With a competent coach and elevated talent it's unlikely we ever pick this high again.  That is how you end up like CHI.  Good team stuck in mediocrity.

I think douglas is smarter then that.  It's going to Watson or a QB at two.

Just look at the last 4 playoff teams standing, they all had top end QBs.

[Bobby816]

36 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

True, but we can avoid that situation by cutting the chord on 14 now. I'd rather just about any other QB...guys with more upside, or guys who are more proven.

Darnold is in no man's land.

Here’s the thing though... it’s going to be hard to convince WRs, OLineman, RBs and TEs to join us in FA without knowing who’s our QB. Remember us fans think Darnold is trash. But a lot of the league thinks he’s not good only Bc he’s with us. So they actually believe in him. I think a FA is more likely to join us knowing our QB situation rather than not knowing who will be the starter. In the draft. We can trade back a couple spots and still draft smith or chase for Darnold all while adding a high second rounder as well and more. Giving us still the 23rd, 34th and a pick around 35-40 to also help Darnold.

 

I do totally get wanting to just get a QB at 2... and I’d support it. But I do think the odds are most in favor of us building around Darnold and using picks to build the roster to make him a franchise QB

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, Rockice_8 said:

If a top QB is there you take them.  Darnold is horrible no matter what you think about his surrounding cast.  You can't bank on next year.  With a competent coach and elevated talent it's unlikely we ever pick this high again.  That is how you end up like CHI.  Good team stuck in mediocrity.

I think douglas is smarter then that.  It's going to Watson or a QB at two.

Just look at the last 4 playoff teams standing, they all had top end QBs.

Josh Allen wasn’t good until they helped him and groomed him. Darnold has had neither

[xrade]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

 

If Darnold is truly that awful we will be drafting high again next year.

With the new O and D scheme, FA acquisitions, plethora of high draft picks especially if we trade down, I can’t see this team picking high enough to get whoever are considered the top QB’s next year. To do so might require a hefty price to be paid.

If the Jets are certain about Sam, I am all for it. But if there is the slightest question in their collective minds, just use #2 to get a QB. 

[Bobby816]

31 minutes ago, xrade said:

With the new O and D scheme, FA acquisitions, plethora of high draft picks especially if we trade down, I can’t see this team picking high enough to get whoever are considered the top QB’s next year. To do so might require a hefty price to be paid.

If the Jets are certain about Sam, I am all for it. But if there is the slightest question in their collective minds, just use #2 to get a QB. 

As I said... a lot of the league still thinks he’s not the issue. We shouldn’t be so quick to give up on him when he had an awful HC, awful system and poor talent around him. Fix those things and than judge him.

 

[Bobby816]

Appears Stafford will be traded soon and the QB carousel should start falling in the days and weeks after that. 

[xrade]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

As I said... a lot of the league still thinks he’s not the issue. We shouldn’t be so quick to give up on him when he had an awful HC, awful system and poor talent around him. Fix those things and than judge him.

 

How would the rest of the league know he is good or not the issue?  He has never succeeded, yet. Right now, Sam has done nothing to say otherwise. It could be a lot of things beyond Sam’s control, but it could also be Sam.

We all watched just about every Jets game last year. Who was to blame for running out of bounds behind the line and not seeing a wide open Crowder streaking down the field?  Who was to blame for throwing a pick while running to his right well behind his open receiver right into the DB’s hands? Who threw it right to JA because he locked onto to his receiver before the ball was even snapped?  Who missed the open receiver in the middle of the field on a crossing route and instead threw to the double covered receiver?  Who got his shoulder messed up?  There are more instances but my point is made. Sam may improve with a better supporting cast and offense, but on plays that are independent of that stuff he was not good. After three years I would have not expected those rookie mistakes.

Sam may just be a mediocre at best QB. It would really suck if Sam is the issue as the eye test suggests and we pass on a QB at 2.  Based on what I have seen from Sam thus far, he needs a lot of self-improvement along with a better supporting cast. Maybe Saleh and co. can fix him but it is the biggest gamble of the 3 options. That is my judgment. 

[Bobby816]

9 minutes ago, xrade said:

How would the rest of the league know he is good or not the issue?  He has never succeeded, yet. Right now, Sam has done nothing to say otherwise. It could be a lot of things beyond Sam’s control, but it could also be Sam.

We all watched just about every Jets game last year. Who was to blame for running out of bounds behind the line and not seeing a wide open Crowder streaking down the field?  Who was to blame for throwing a pick while running to his right well behind his open receiver right into the DB’s hands? Who threw it right to JA because he locked onto to his receiver before the ball was even snapped?  Who missed the open receiver in the middle of the field on a crossing route and instead threw to the double covered receiver?  Who got his shoulder messed up?  There are more instances but my point is made. Sam may improve with a better supporting cast and offense, but on plays that are independent of that stuff he was not good. After three years I would have not expected those rookie mistakes.

Sam may just be a mediocre at best QB. It would really suck if Sam is the issue as the eye test suggests and we pass on a QB at 2.  Based on what I have seen from Sam thus far, he needs a lot of self-improvement along with a better supporting cast. Maybe Saleh and co. can fix him but it is the biggest gamble of the 3 options. That is my judgment. 

He won 7/8 games to finish 2019 season with an awful coach and nothing around him. He has talent 

[Rockice_8]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Josh Allen wasn’t good until they helped him and groomed him. Darnold has had neither

Darnold is probably Jimmy G at his best.  A guy that in a perfect situation can get you deep into the playoffs but the second you need him can't come through or throws a bad pick.

Jimmy G feel apart once the situation wasn't perfect.  I'm not looking for Jimmy G at QB for the next decade.

Allen had elite tools and is the rare exception to the rule.  Most guys don't breakout like that.  It's a testament to him.  Sam isn't going to be a MVP candidate in 2 years if we put him in a great situation he's just not.  Hoping for that is just a bad idea.

[Bobby816]

16 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Darnold is probably Jimmy G at his best.  A guy that in a perfect situation can get you deep into the playoffs but the second you need him can't come through or throws a bad pick.

Jimmy G feel apart once the situation wasn't perfect.  I'm not looking for Jimmy G at QB for the next decade.

Allen had elite tools and is the rare exception to the rule.  Most guys don't breakout like that.  It's a testament to him.  Sam isn't going to be a MVP candidate in 2 years if we put him in a great situation he's just not.  Hoping for that is just a bad idea.

I get that. But Wilson and Fields are question marks as well. 

[Rockice_8]

4 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Here’s the thing though... it’s going to be hard to convince WRs, OLineman, RBs and TEs to join us in FA without knowing who’s our QB. Remember us fans think Darnold is trash. But a lot of the league thinks he’s not good only Bc he’s with us. So they actually believe in him. I think a FA is more likely to join us knowing our QB situation rather than not knowing who will be the starter. In the draft. We can trade back a couple spots and still draft smith or chase for Darnold all while adding a high second rounder as well and more. Giving us still the 23rd, 34th and a pick around 35-40 to also help Darnold.

 

I do totally get wanting to just get a QB at 2... and I’d support it. But I do think the odds are most in favor of us building around Darnold and using picks to build the roster to make him a franchise QB

Players are going to want to come here to play with Darnold?  Now I've heard it all.  He's been terrible what WR wants to come a team whose QB just won 2 games and threw more picks than TDs.

Only reason guys would come here is for Saleh.  If he can convince them to play for Sam he can do the same with Wilson or Fields.

[xrade]

17 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

He won 7/8 games to finish 2019 season with an awful coach and nothing around him. He has talent 

Yes he did which gave us all hope. Then with similar awful players and the same crappy coach he regressed and won two games. I’ll even make it 3 games because GW lost us the Oakland game.

I offer proof as to why he may not be a good QB. What do you have that suggests otherwise?  Where is this talent you say he has?  I have seen flashes but they are rare.

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Players are going to want to come here to play with Darnold?  Now I've heard it all.  He's been terrible what WR wants to come a team whose QB just won 2 games and threw more picks than TDs.

Only reason guys would come here is for Saleh.  If he can convince them to play for Sam he can do the same with Wilson or Fields.

My point wasn’t that they want to play with Darnold. My point was that you at least have a guy at QB to tell a FA who your QBs is. If we decide to move on from him. We are selling a guy we don’t even know who we’re drafting to them. Good look getting AR15 or whoever to sign a deal without knowing who there QB will be. Where if we stick with Darnold... we have a selling point to them. Explain how he has a future and that it was a system and coach that hurt him. And the focus is to get him help.