Greene N White Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 The problem is that people don’t actually like Sam darnold they’re still in love with the idea of Sam darnold as we all were when we drafted him #3 and are clinging on still. Trust me you say you are cool with darnold now because it’s been a few weeks since we’ve seen him play and we just forget about how miserable it was watching him week in and week out. I’m a culprit of it at times myself but the guy is toast. Every offseason we go into it giving him excuses and try to convince ourselves that we can fix him but the fact of the matter is it does not matter where he was drafted he just straight up is not good and we have to accept that and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 13 hours ago, Bobby816 said: You talk like Wilson (who I know you love) is a sure thing. He’s not Obviously but the kid is an elite prospect and far superior to Darnold coming out. Darnold has been one of the worst QBs for 3 years now and even less of a sure thing. You really want to pass on a great prospect when all we have to do is walk to the podium and submit the pick for Sam who has made the same mistakes over and over again for 3 years? Your plan is then when Sam fails and he will to trade up for a QB next year when, 1 we aren't sure we can find a partner and 2 it's going to cost extra assets to do that? I mean that just sounds awful to be honest. Like I can't even be convinced to like that plan even the slightest. Take the QB at 2, grab Corey Davis in FA who I really like, spend 23 or 34 on OG, grab WR depth in R2 or R3, and overpay for Thuney in FA and you got more than enough to put you young QB in position to succeed just like that. We still have a ton of money to sure up areas of the defense for Saleh and we still are loaded with assets moving forward. It's very easy to put a good team around a young QB just as easy as it is to do it with Sam like you want. It's just that Sam has done nothing to make me think he stop turning the ball over and miss open WRs. At least we reset the QB money with a better prospect and a OC that can mold him from day 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Rockice_8 said: Obviously but the kid is an elite prospect and far superior to Darnold coming out. Darnold has been one of the worst QBs for 3 years now and even less of a sure thing. You really want to pass on a great prospect when all we have to do is walk to the podium and submit the pick for Sam who has made the same mistakes over and over again for 3 years? Your plan is then when Sam fails and he will to trade up for a QB next year when, 1 we aren't sure we can find a partner and 2 it's going to cost extra assets to do that? I mean that just sounds awful to be honest. Like I can't even be convinced to like that plan even the slightest. Take the QB at 2, grab Corey Davis in FA who I really like, spend 23 or 34 on OG, grab WR depth in R2 or R3, and overpay for Thuney in FA and you got more than enough to put you young QB in position to succeed just like that. We still have a ton of money to sure up areas of the defense for Saleh and we still are loaded with assets moving forward. It's very easy to put a good team around a young QB just as easy as it is to do it with Sam like you want. It's just that Sam has done nothing to make me think he stop turning the ball over and miss open WRs. At least we reset the QB money with a better prospect and a OC that can mold him from day 1. As I said... I see this side of it. But I think some really need to realize that sticking with Sam is a very good possibility. And for the reasons I mentioned. He has never had a good HC. Never had a good offensive system. Never had talent around him. So the new regime might want to stick with him with all those factors hopefully changed. And using that 2nd pick to help Darnold or to trade back and acquire more picks and help him out even more... it's a good possibility. My point being that you're judging Darnold based on his past. Not realizing the situation he was in, and that now we have it better and should continue to make it better. Its a 100% fact that if we stick with Darnold we can help out the offense around a QB more than if we draft a QB at 2. Its a fact. Bc the 2nd pick would be used on an elite offensive player around a QB rather than a QB with question marks. And YES Wilson has question marks. Remember just a year ago his stat line was 11td/9int and a 7-6 team in a weak conference. So lets not act like this is Andrew Luck we'd be drafting. Let me guess? He didn't have anything around him? Ya that sounds familiar... doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: As I said... I see this side of it. But I think some really need to realize that sticking with Sam is a very good possibility. And for the reasons I mentioned. He has never had a good HC. Never had a good offensive system. Never had talent around him. So the new regime might want to stick with him with all those factors hopefully changed. And using that 2nd pick to help Darnold or to trade back and acquire more picks and help him out even more... it's a good possibility. My point being that you're judging Darnold based on his past. Not realizing the situation he was in, and that now we have it better and should continue to make it better. Its a 100% fact that if we stick with Darnold we can help out the offense around a QB more than if we draft a QB at 2. Its a fact. Bc the 2nd pick would be used on an elite offensive player around a QB rather than a QB with question marks. And YES Wilson has question marks. Remember just a year ago his stat line was 11td/9int and a 7-6 team in a weak conference. So lets not act like this is Andrew Luck we'd be drafting. Let me guess? He didn't have anything around him? Ya that sounds familiar... doesn't it? You keep trying to paint this picture that Wilson has question marks and Sam doesn't. Sam has 3 years of NFL experience and has not improved 1 bit from the same issues he had in college. You seriously believe Sam has no question marks and for sure with an elite WR will become Josh Allen and be an MVP candidate? Honestly if you had to put a percentage on it what chance do you give Sam to become one of the 10-12 best QBs in the league? That's what we are looking for in a QB. Those are the guys that win it all. Yes as a true sophomore he didn't have a great year but I see a kid who figured it out and is improving on his flaws something that Sam never did. Add to the fact that Wilson is the better prospect then Sam was coming out and we won't have to waste assets next year by trading up if Sam fails this is a no brainier. Even if Sam fails it's unlikely we will be top 5 again. Just look at those last two Mac drafts we ended up at 6. We can't count on being I. This position again next year. It's either Watson or Wilson, there is no third option. If JD and Saleh stick with Sam I'll be his biggest fan but I think they are smart people. I wish Sam was the QBOTF. I try to convince myself everyday so we can trade down from 2 and stockpile even more assets. Everytime is dream up these mocks with all these extra firsts I get pumped until I realize the QB is still Sam. Edited January 31, 2021 by Rockice_8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, Rockice_8 said: You keep trying to paint this picture that Wilson has question marks and Sam doesn't. Sam has 3 years of NFL experience and has not improved 1 bit from the same issues he had I college. You seriously believe Sam has no question marks and for sure with an elite WR will become Josh Allen and be an MVP candidate? Honestly if you had to put a percentage on it what change do you give Sam to become one of the 10-12 best QBs in the league? Yes as a true sophomore he didn't have a great year but I see a kid who figured it out and is improving on his flaws something that Sam never did. Add to the fact that Wilson is the better prospect then Sam was coming out and we won't have to waste assets next year by trading up if Sam fails this is a no brainier. Even if Sam fails it's unlikely we will be top 5 again. Just look at those last two Mac drafts we ended up at 6. We can't count on being I. This position again next year. It's either Watson or Wilson, there is no third option. If JD and Saleh stick with Sam I'll be his biggest fan but I think they are smart people. I wish Sam was the QBOTF. I try to convince myself everyday so we can trade down from 2 and stockpile even more assets. Everytime is dream up these mocks with all these extra firsts I get pumped until I realize the QB is still Sam. I think since we invested a good amount in him and haven't helped him... he deserves a LEGIT shot now with a different regime and draft capital to help him. That's my point. As I said... I wont be upset 1 bit if we draft a QB at 2 and trade him. But I think from a team building standpoint (lets not act like QB is our only issue). Sticking with Darnold helps us build the roster the most. On top of that. You throw Fields out like he wont be considered at all at 2. Its not Watson or Wilson. Its Darnold or Watson or Wilson or Fields. Its not a 2 QB option for us. YOU maybe think that's the only option. But I can guarantee you that's not how our FO see's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: I think since we invested a good amount in him and haven't helped him... he deserves a LEGIT shot now with a different regime and draft capital to help him. That's my point. As I said... I wont be upset 1 bit if we draft a QB at 2 and trade him. But I think from a team building standpoint (lets not act like QB is our only issue). Sticking with Darnold helps us build the roster the most. On top of that. You throw Fields out like he wont be considered at all at 2. Its not Watson or Wilson. Its Darnold or Watson or Wilson or Fields. Its not a 2 QB option for us. YOU maybe think that's the only option. But I can guarantee you that's not how our FO see's it. Agreed Fields is an option I just prefer Wilson so I use him as the example. Still holds true if the FO likes Fields better. Sam doesn't deserve anything. If we gave him studs WRs sure I'm betting his numbers would go up. How much is the issue I'm having. Sam has serious flaws that were on full display this year that can't just be buried by saying well if he had more talent. He was terrible at reading the defenses, continued to have accuracy issues, missed open reads, and continued to turn the ball over even in a clean pocket. These thing aren't just going away, can they be masked some with great talent around him and scheme sure some but I'm not looking to mask my QBs issues which is what we'd be doing. Again I'll be Sam's biggest fan of we keep him. I have nothing against him I just think it's a terrible idea to pass on a better prospect when we have one sitting there for the taking and Sam has been the same guy he's been for years now. I want nothing more then for Sam to be the guy because trading down from 2 is the best case scenario. I just think that dream is dead because of how bad Sam has been. We can't afford to keep him and have him hold us back. We'd be stuck at in QB purgatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doumeyer Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I am starting to think the same thing that there is a great possibility that Douglas is either going to pick a QB at 2 or stick with Darnold. Unless he doesn't have to give away the store to get Watson. The Houston front office knows they can't give away Watson without getting a Kings ransom in return. As of now the four teams what would like to get Watson, are the Saints, Jets, Colts & the Lions. The Lion could use the Two first round picks they got in the Matt Stafford trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsfan4life51 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 The picks equal ~700-1000 points depending on how you grade future 1sts. #2 is still 2600 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyt31 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I don't think trading for Watson is going to cost as much as people think after the Stafford trade. The Rams' picks were late in the round, so they have to give up a little more. We hold the #2 pick that allows the Texans to draft the best possible replacement this offseason. It's going to cost multiple picks, but we still have the best shot if Watson is to get traded. The Texans don't have a pick in the top 2 rounds this year. They're in a forced rebuild situation anyway. I think it's going to be Watson, Lance, Wilson, or Fields starting for us next season. I doubt we go into next season with Sam and a cheap vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfuel34 Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 34 minutes ago, doumeyer said: I am starting to think the same thing that there is a great possibility that Douglas is either going to pick a QB at 2 or stick with Darnold. Unless he doesn't have to give away the store to get Watson. The Houston front office knows they can't give away Watson without getting a Kings ransom in return. As of now the four teams what would like to get Watson, are the Saints, Jets, Colts & the Lions. The Lion could use the Two first round picks they got in the Matt Stafford trade. I think the lions are out on Watson. You can’t afford to have both Goff and Watson contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHectorFan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 As a long time Jet fan, I’m used to not getting my hopes up. We can all go back and forth about Watson, drafting a QB at #2 or trading down for a haul of picks, but would any of you guys be surprised to hear in April, “With the second pick in the 2021 NFL draft, the New York Jets select Penei Sewell, tackle, Oregon. “ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 36 minutes ago, JohnnyHectorFan said: As a long time Jet fan, I’m used to not getting my hopes up. We can all go back and forth about Watson, drafting a QB at #2 or trading down for a haul of picks, but would any of you guys be surprised to hear in April, “With the second pick in the 2021 NFL draft, the New York Jets select Penei Sewell, tackle, Oregon. “ Yes I would. And here's why... That would mean we'd have to pay 2 OTs top LT money in a few years. Just not great use of high draft assets. Spread it out. Now if we can trade back an acquire more picks and still get him a few picks later... then it might be too good to pass up and we'd still be in the same money situation in essence. I think the smartest thing if we do go a different direction than QB with that 2nd pick is to trade back just a couple/few spots and add a haul all while still drafting one of Smith or Chase and acquiring an extra high 2nd and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I wonder how long the HOU GM will stay strong in saying he has no plans on trading Watson. Dude isn't reporting and good luck signing FAs and resigning players without knowing his situation. Trade him in these next few weeks. The sooner the better for the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doumeyer Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, jetfuel34 said: I think the lions are out on Watson. You can’t afford to have both Goff and Watson contracts. I just know about the draft picks they got i did not know they got Goff. that is very interesting. they trade a good QB who is 33 years old and got a young QB, and two first round picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, JohnnyHectorFan said: As a long time Jet fan, I’m used to not getting my hopes up. We can all go back and forth about Watson, drafting a QB at #2 or trading down for a haul of picks, but would any of you guys be surprised to hear in April, “With the second pick in the 2021 NFL draft, the New York Jets select Penei Sewell, tackle, Oregon. “ Yeah Id be pretty upset if we took a non QB at two. We better be trading back if that is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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