Watson trade talk!!!!!!

[GangGreen420]

I still find it very weird that teams would be willing to part with a 1 for him 

[KingOfNewYork]

7 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

I still find it very weird that teams would be willing to part with a 1 for him 

I could see Washington maybe doing it because they pick mid to late first and he's better than anything they could get there. Downside is they'd only have 1 year to really see what they have in him. 

[Sandwhich2]

I can't figure out how a Jets fan watching Darnold the last few years can CONFIDENTLY say it's the right choice to keep him if there are other options and we can get value for him. We were big fans when he was drafted. He was promising hear 1. He got a bad coach to develop him. He has made like 10 highlight plays the last two years and has otherwise played poorly..missing open receivers on a consistent basis and throwing head scratching interceptions in heavy coverage. I think we know who he is, and he's had every opportunity to clean up his feet (which is ever more necessary considering how loopy his throwing motion is).

We obviously don't know if he's salvageable with better coaching but man you're passing on a lot if you're trying to find out. If you dig deep and be honest with yourself and give a percentage chance he turns into a top 10 or even top 20 QB these next year's, you'll realize it's a very very low percentage.

[ekill08x]

2 hours ago, GangGreen420 said:

I still find it very weird that teams would be willing to part with a 1 for him 

You will likely be right but I think a 2 and 4 or 5 could be more realistic and I would also take that in a heartbeat. Nothing against Sam, our pathetic  former regime did him absolutely no favors, but there are many things that he need to do that he simply failed to. He could be a solid starting QB in the right system and in the right situation but top 10 QB just is not a realistic ceiling for him either.

[SDotNova]

2 hours ago, Sandwhich2 said:

I can't figure out how a Jets fan watching Darnold the last few years can CONFIDENTLY say it's the right choice to keep him if there are other options and we can get value for him. We were big fans when he was drafted. He was promising hear 1. He got a bad coach to develop him. He has made like 10 highlight plays the last two years and has otherwise played poorly..missing open receivers on a consistent basis and throwing head scratching interceptions in heavy coverage. I think we know who he is, and he's had every opportunity to clean up his feet (which is ever more necessary considering how loopy his throwing motion is).

We obviously don't know if he's salvageable with better coaching but man you're passing on a lot if you're trying to find out. If you dig deep and be honest with yourself and give a percentage chance he turns into a top 10 or even top 20 QB these next year's, you'll realize it's a very very low percentage.

I’m one of those that has been flirting with this idea. My thought process is that we keep messing up these QBs because we leave them out to dry. So I figured, build the team and see if Darnold can be the guy. If not, draft a QB next year.

But I’m off that ledge. When you start to think about his upside, it’s just not there. Like the best we can expect is a poor man’s Dereck Carr or a slightly more athletic Jimmy G. Or possibly Teddy Bridgewater with a stronger arm. He’s at best an average QB. But we can’t even assume that because he still has a floor of a long term backup.

We have to turn the page. A guy like Wilson has a much higher ceiling. Even better would be Watson who is anywhere between the 4-10 best QB already. 

[jetfuel34]

3 hours ago, Sandwhich2 said:

I can't figure out how a Jets fan watching Darnold the last few years can CONFIDENTLY say it's the right choice to keep him if there are other options and we can get value for him. We were big fans when he was drafted. He was promising hear 1. He got a bad coach to develop him. He has made like 10 highlight plays the last two years and has otherwise played poorly..missing open receivers on a consistent basis and throwing head scratching interceptions in heavy coverage. I think we know who he is, and he's had every opportunity to clean up his feet (which is ever more necessary considering how loopy his throwing motion is).

We obviously don't know if he's salvageable with better coaching but man you're passing on a lot if you're trying to find out. If you dig deep and be honest with yourself and give a percentage chance he turns into a top 10 or even top 20 QB these next year's, you'll realize it's a very very low percentage.

For me it is simple 

Darnold is better than Wilson and Fields in my eyes. Why waste a number 2 pick on a qb that will be average at best. Then put them behind this line with no real weapons you are going to destroy another qb career. 

[Sandwhich2]

26 minutes ago, jetfuel34 said:

For me it is simple 

Darnold is better than Wilson and Fields in my eyes. Why waste a number 2 pick on a qb that will be average at best. Then put them behind this line with no real weapons you are going to destroy another qb career. 

Like, Darnold the prospect or Darnold the QB we've watched the last few years? Because the QB we've watched the last few years has played like a mid-tier backup QB in this league...so you're either a big hater of Field and Wilson (fine if you are) or you're seeing something from Darnold that I just don't see.

[Bobby816]

36 minutes ago, jetfuel34 said:

For me it is simple 

Darnold is better than Wilson and Fields in my eyes. Why waste a number 2 pick on a qb that will be average at best. Then put them behind this line with no real weapons you are going to destroy another qb career. 

I think what you also mean (and correct me if I’m wrong) is that you don’t think Darnold is the problem. That you think it wa stage system and surroundings that made him fail. So it’s not that you think Darnold is superior to these guys. It’s that you’re just not ready to give up on Darnold yet. Make the situation around him better (we have already with a new staff). And see what he has before getting rid of a 23yrnokd QB with takent

[Sandwhich2]

The system sucked and players around him weren't great but HE still missed throws from clean pockets constantly and HE still made bizarre reads and HE was still unable to identify blitzes and HE still just sloppy and erratic footwork that constantly lead to incompletions.

I liked Darnold a lot and I don't think there's no chance he becomes a good QB, but the chances of a rebound just seem so low. If there's an option the Jets like at #2 I just don't see how you pass because of the "what if" factor of a 4th year QB that has gotten worse season to season.

[KingOfNewYork]

System be damned. We watched Darnold miss wide open receivers, throw the ball right to defenders and take bad sacks/not throw the ball away enough to stop blaming everything around him. Kid was bad, hopefully he rebounds and if he does it here then he’ll have my support but this hand holding is getting annoying. 

[KingOfNewYork]

This sums it up 

 

 

[Bobby816]

4 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

This sums it up 

 

 

When he had 0 confidence and had a clean pocket not very often... this is what happens.

 

For me I just find it rather funny that Sam is done here in like 95% of your minds Bc of this last year. Even after looking good in 2019. Like a new system or player around him can’t make him improve from that 2019 guy we saw.

Yet Wilson with 2 awful seasons and 1 good season is totally worth the 2nd pick.

As I’ve said. It seems some just want change more so than anything.

[Sandwhich2]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

When he had 0 confidence and had a clean pocket not very often... this is what happens.

 

For me I just find it rather funny that Sam is done here in like 95% of your minds Bc of this last year. Even after looking good in 2019. Like a new system or player around him can’t make him improve from that 2019 guy we saw.

Yet Wilson with 2 awful seasons and 1 good season is totally worth the 2nd pick.

As I’ve said. It seems some just want change more so than anything.

First off, I wouldn't say Sam "looked good" in 2019. In fact, I think the best he's looked was his rookie year, even though it was wildly inconsistent and still not very good.

I am NOT the type that just wants change, I usually want the opposite. I just still have no idea what anyone's been watching with Sam that gives you any kind of confidence in him. 

You draft prospects and hope they develop into good players. Sam hasn't developed, so you try again. Wilson has shown progress and reasons to believe he can develop, and it comes with much less risk because you don't have to think about his contract next season.

Rolling the dice with Sam again this year has 3 outcomes:

1) He plays terribly and we still don't have a QB. Loses all trade value. Don't have a #2 overall pick because of improvements on other parts of the team.

2) He plays mediocre-average and we're right back in this same spot next year with his 5th year option on the table. Probably loses trade value and we're stuck in a limbo.

3) he plays really well and we have to sign him to a massive contract extension, hoping that this year was not the outlier and that's he's turned some kind of corner....and that we're not stuck with a mediocre QB on a cap eating contract like so many teams have done. I just find it so unlikely that this option even happens to begin with.

To me this isn't any different of a season for Sam than the season was for Trubisky last year, and now the Bears are stuck in a weird spot of probably moving on but not having a whole lot of options to move onto.

If Sam's the QB next year I'm rooting for him, but I don't he is reason enough to not explore QB options.

 

[Bobby816]

7 minutes ago, Sandwhich2 said:

First off, I wouldn't say Sam "looked good" in 2019. In fact, I think the best he's looked was his rookie year, even though it was wildly inconsistent and still not very good.

I am NOT the type that just wants change, I usually want the opposite. I just still have no idea what anyone's been watching with Sam that gives you any kind of confidence in him. 

You draft prospects and hope they develop into good players. Sam hasn't developed, so you try again. Wilson has shown progress and reasons to believe he can develop, and it comes with much less risk because you don't have to think about his contract next season.

Rolling the dice with Sam again this year has 3 outcomes:

1) He plays terribly and we still don't have a QB. Loses all trade value. Don't have a #2 overall pick because of improvements on other parts of the team.

2) He plays mediocre-average and we're right back in this same spot next year with his 5th year option on the table. Probably loses trade value and we're stuck in a limbo.

3) he plays really well and we have to sign him to a massive contract extension, hoping that this year was not the outlier and that's he's turned some kind of corner....and that we're not stuck with a mediocre QB on a cap eating contract like so many teams have done. I just find it so unlikely that this option even happens to begin with.

To me this isn't any different of a season for Sam than the season was for Trubisky last year, and now the Bears are stuck in a weird spot of probably moving on but not having a whole lot of options to move onto.

If Sam's the QB next year I'm rooting for him, but I don't he is reason enough to not explore QB options.

 

I hear ya. And I don’t just want Darnold as the QB next year. I in fact want Watson. And would be ok giving a good haul for him as well. But for me from a team building perspective... I think sticking with Darnold helps that the most. Point being that if we draft a QB and don’t help what’s around him. Why would he do much different than Sam? Bc he has a better staff? Well how about trying our 23yr old QB with that better staff 1st. This allows us to add more with that high of a pick. Trade back maybe a couple spots. Still draft 1 of Smith, Sewell, Chase. Acquiring another pick in the top 40 as well.

 

I love the phrase. The grass in greener where you water it.

 

Water Sam. We got a staff now to help him. Now get the players.

 

If we do draft a QB at 2 and trade Sam... I won’t be upset at all. What will upset me is if we do that. And then don’t add much on offense. And no I don’t think signing tier 2 and 3 guys in FA and spending mid/late round picks is helping a QB. We’ve done that for years and we regularly have one of the worst offenses in the league.

[Sandwhich2]

I'm of the opinion that any Jets fan that doesn't want to trade for Watson is a masochist.