A trade proposal...

[whodatworm23]

9 minutes ago, Raves said:

OBJ was disgruntled, injured pretty sure, and high cap hit and got a mid 1st, 3rd, and a former 1st round pick...  Also who are you taking at #3?  A QB?  Devonte Smith?

I'd rather trade Thomas for a similar value as OBJ.  With a mid-1st you'll probably have access to Fields/Wilson/Lance without a doubt, then at #28 you can still get a good WR prospect, or you use the mid-1st on a top WR prospect and use #28 and some of the additional assets to move up for a QB that might be dropping but high on.  Either way trading all the way up to #3 makes 0 sense.

So if we decide trading with Miami is still the right decision, I'd rather try for #18, #39, and #41 from them or some other combination of #18 + other picks.

Thats the catch... You only make this trade under 1 circumstance. A QB you LOVE is there, PERIOD.

[Raves]

7 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Thats the catch... You only make this trade under 1 circumstance. A QB you LOVE is there, PERIOD.

Even then I'd be hesitant to give up all that to get a QB when there is already going to be a semi tear down due to cap casualties.  I mean now if you said it would be #28, Michael Thomas, future 3rds, sure, but anymore than that is too much

[Fray32]

Love MT13 and would keep him here forever if we could. But when I try to be realistic about the future, it makes too much sense to eventually ship him for draft capital. It all depends on the direction the team is headed in.

Side note: I saw one book had the Saints with the 4th best odds to win the Super Bowl next year in the NFC behind Tampa, Green Bay, and San Fran... Shockingly overrated.

Edit: Just saw Thomas' comments/tweets. Obviously not a great look but he isn't wrong either... I don't see him becoming a Terrell Owens type distraction unless the team was losing (like a lot) and he wasn't getting any looks... which might actually happen who knows.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Fray32

[whodatworm23]

5 hours ago, Fray32 said:

Love MT13 and would keep him here forever if we could. But when I try to be realistic about the future, it makes too much sense to eventually ship him for draft capital. It all depends on the direction the team is headed in.

Side note: I saw one book had the Saints with the 4th best odds to win the Super Bowl next year in the NFC behind Tampa, Green Bay, and San Fran... Shockingly overrated.

Edit: Just saw Thomas' comments/tweets. Obviously not a great look but he isn't wrong either... I don't see him becoming a Terrell Owens type distraction unless the team was losing (like a lot) and he wasn't getting any looks... which might actually happen who knows.

Agreed... Look I personally dont see him moved unless his relationship with Payton is fractured. Everything else is piss in the wind as far as im concerned but it the relationship between he and Payton is beyond repair then hes as good as gone.

[Raves]

8 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

Agreed... Look I personally dont see him moved unless his relationship with Payton is fractured. Everything else is piss in the wind as far as im concerned but it the relationship between he and Payton is beyond repair then hes as good as gone.

Which no one is arguing or denying.  But if it's just a "he talked smack about Brees so ship him out" then just no.  If he is moved though, then look to get like the #18 and one of the early 2nds from Miami and get some more youth to help bolster the roster that's about to experience a bit of a shake up due to cap issues.

[MookieMonstah]

17 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

You know what Paytons history is with disgruntled players and how he handles them?

 

Hes either cut them or traded them. Remember we dont know how deep this goes. It wasnt just Thomas being shady with Brees, he also exploded on Payton after a pratice and then once again when handed his punishment for punching out CGJ.

 

Now Thomas has had his lost season due to injuries and now is lined up for multipule leg surgeries this offseason all at the same time the big money in his deal is starting to hit.

 

I get that its a long shot hes traded but it sure smells like the Jimmy Graham situation all over again to me. Remember, when Graham was traded it was a big shock and he was still Brees #1 guy who was very similar to Thomas in this offense. Payton didn't hesitate.

To be fair, its partially Paytons fault he wasn't healthy all year. Thomas had no business being in the game that late. 

[MookieMonstah]

14 hours ago, Fray32 said:

Love MT13 and would keep him here forever if we could. But when I try to be realistic about the future, it makes too much sense to eventually ship him for draft capital. It all depends on the direction the team is headed in.

Side note: I saw one book had the Saints with the 4th best odds to win the Super Bowl next year in the NFC behind Tampa, Green Bay, and San Fran... Shockingly overrated.

Edit: Just saw Thomas' comments/tweets. Obviously not a great look but he isn't wrong either... I don't see him becoming a Terrell Owens type distraction unless the team was losing (like a lot) and he wasn't getting any looks... which might actually happen who knows.

I don't think thats a bad ranking. The Saints biggest weakness in the playoffs was Brees ironically.

[Fray32]

2 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

I don't think thats a bad ranking. The Saints biggest weakness in the playoffs was Brees ironically.

This year yeah. But next year it'll be a volunteer effort just to get 53 guys on the active roster 😬

[MookieMonstah]

23 minutes ago, Fray32 said:

This year yeah. But next year it'll be a volunteer effort just to get 53 guys on the active roster 😬

Cap situation really isn’t that dire. Saints might lose 1-2 guys they would’ve liked to keep, but the core will still be there for the most part.

The Andrus Peat contract is tough.

[whodatworm23]

1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said:

Cap situation really isn’t that dire. Saints might lose 1-2 guys they would’ve liked to keep, but the core will still be there for the most part.

The Andrus Peat contract is tough.

This isnt necessarily true... I mean ot could be but this front office has to really make a decision. Do they do a hard reset or do they keep doing what they been doing.

 

Drew Brees contract isnt the only deal that they have been forced to kick the can down the road on to stay competitive. Their are many other potential Brees deal currently on the books that will only get worse as Brees deal did as these players get older and less productive. Just to keep players and get under the cap and remain a good team we would have to restructure over 10 other deals kicking the can down the road on them as well. The day comea were all these deals come due.

 

Or the Saints could opt to allow Brees and others contracts to come due over this year and next. Purging these deals over the next two seasons reseting the salary cap and begining the process of getting younger and cheaper... Rebuilding.

 

The reason they would opt for this would be the goodwill equity the Brees era built up with the fanbase. It would be understood by most fans that a post Brees era would begin with a rebuild and the support would be there through it. Also the fact that the salary cap will be getting reset around 175-180 million this offseason due to Covid (was suppose to be like 200+) its an excuse to do a hard reset as much of what the Sainta did to remain competitive was done with the idea that the salary cap would always grow, covid has made it that much more of a dire situation in New Orleans as the years go by. This is a awkward year to look at a teams cap issues and try to figure out what theu will do... You really have to look over the next 3 years due to this cap reset and how past contracts will be affected.

 

The decision the Saints front office will need to make is... Do we just treadwater over the next couple seasons then hard reset or do we just get it out of the way now while we have the fans support?

 

Personally I think Sean Paytons career intentions will be a part of this decision. If Payton sees himself coaching in New Orleans beyond 2022 then good shot for a hard reset but if Payton is looking to retire or move on within the next 3 seasons then we'll likey treadwater until he leaves and we hire a new head coach.

[MookieMonstah]

44 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

This isnt necessarily true... I mean ot could be but this front office has to really make a decision. Do they do a hard reset or do they keep doing what they been doing.

 

Drew Brees contract isnt the only deal that they have been forced to kick the can down the road on to stay competitive. Their are many other potential Brees deal currently on the books that will only get worse as Brees deal did as these players get older and less productive. Just to keep players and get under the cap and remain a good team we would have to restructure over 10 other deals kicking the can down the road on them as well. The day comea were all these deals come due.

 

Or the Saints could opt to allow Brees and others contracts to come due over this year and next. Purging these deals over the next two seasons reseting the salary cap and begining the process of getting younger and cheaper... Rebuilding.

 

The reason they would opt for this would be the goodwill equity the Brees era built up with the fanbase. It would be understood by most fans that a post Brees era would begin with a rebuild and the support would be there through it. Also the fact that the salary cap will be getting reset around 175-180 million this offseason due to Covid (was suppose to be like 200+) its an excuse to do a hard reset as much of what the Sainta did to remain competitive was done with the idea that the salary cap would always grow, covid has made it that much more of a dire situation in New Orleans as the years go by. This is a awkward year to look at a teams cap issues and try to figure out what theu will do... You really have to look over the next 3 years due to this cap reset and how past contracts will be affected.

 

The decision the Saints front office will need to make is... Do we just treadwater over the next couple seasons then hard reset or do we just get it out of the way now while we have the fans support?

 

Personally I think Sean Paytons career intentions will be a part of this decision. If Payton sees himself coaching in New Orleans beyond 2022 then good shot for a hard reset but if Payton is looking to retire or move on within the next 3 seasons then we'll likey treadwater until he leaves and we hire a new head coach.

I don't know why you would hard reset. This team is very talented. If anything, Brees held them back. With an even average QB, Saints win 10 games minimum. If they bring in Stafford, or if Winston plays at a top 15 QB level they're SB contenders still. This is really the only year the Saints are in trouble, and its mainly because of COVID. The sky isn't falling.

[whodatworm23]

4 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

I don't know why you would hard reset. This team is very talented. If anything, Brees held them back. With an even average QB, Saints win 10 games minimum. If they bring in Stafford, or if Winston plays at a top 15 QB level they're SB contenders still. This is really the only year the Saints are in trouble, and its mainly because of COVID. The sky isn't falling.

This is not the only year the Saints are in trouble... Its just the worse as of now but to keep treading water all those contracts need to be restructured and pushed back into future years, the money dont just go away. Does it get better, sure but its still alot of deadmoney building putting us in the same situation were in now down the road and covid only conjests it more. If this cap number comes out sub 190 million it will have residual effects on the Saints cap for the next 4 years.

 

Outside of that... Stafford is not a average QB and hes also a 100 million dollar one. Getting Winston to play like a top 15 QB... Ok, thats asking alot IMO. Sometimes a hard reset is the best thing for your franchise, will they do it... Prob not. 

[MookieMonstah]

11 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

This is not the only year the Saints are in trouble... Its just the worse as of now but to keep treading water all those contracts need to be restructured and pushed back into future years, the money dont just go away. Does it get better, sure but its still alot of deadmoney building putting us in the same situation were in now down the road and covid only conjests it more. If this cap number comes out sub 190 million it will have residual effects on the Saints cap for the next 4 years.

 

Outside of that... Stafford is not a average QB and hes also a 100 million dollar one. Getting Winston to play like a top 15 QB... Ok, thats asking alot IMO. Sometimes a hard reset is the best thing for your franchise, will they do it... Prob not. 

I don't see any justification for doing it this year. They've built a very good roster. Even an average QB keeps them in the playoffs. 

[whodatworm23]

13 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

I don't see any justification for doing it this year. They've built a very good roster. Even an average QB keeps them in the playoffs. 

I guess it goes back to the old question... Whats your apex? Is it the playoffs? 

 

Eventually the inevitable will take place... Do you postpone it for being a middling of the pack team, potentially a playoff berth, picking 18th-22nd in the draft every year. Or do you break the roster down to the point your in a rebuild and you pay all your cap debts and start fresh. Now that does not mean you toss all your young prime core players but maybe it means over the course of the next 2 years you say good bye to aging high priced players such as Jordan, Armstead and Davis while auctioning off Thomas to the highest bidder in order to aquire draft selections to get the team younger and cheaper.

 

Think about it... The Saints could ship off Armstead this year for likley around a 2nd and 4th round pick. Hes basically in a 1 year deal right now and trading him would save 6 million aganist the cap. Were about to have to pay Ramczyk left tackle money, Hurst who we could bring back on the cheap played well in 2020 and Ram can flip over to the left side which he played in college.

 

If you know your moving on from Cam Jordan in 2022 then you resign Hendrickson this offseason. Jordan showed his age this past season and will be 32 next year so 33 by 2022 where we can save 7.5 million by cutting or trading him then but once you start restructuring these deals you push all that hit down the road and then when they are old and far less productive your right back in a Drew Brees type sutuation losing younger more productive players because you mismanaged the cap.

 

It is forgivable when you have a hall of fame QB on the roster and your going for it... Its not acceptable to simply be a middling apex playoff team treading water.

[Dome]

I’m not bothered by Thomas’ comments about the deep ball not being a threat when Brees was QB.

Did it need to be said? No. Was every player on the Saints besides Brees seeing the same issues Thomas was? Most likely. 

Might have stung Brees a bit, but some things he’s said might’ve stung with his teammates as well. I don’t actually think Brees was all that liked in the locker room.

 

I don’t see a reason to trade him yet. Behind our top-tier offensive line, with Thomas and Kamara as weapons, I think we can stay competitive with a “less than ideal” QB next season.