A trade proposal...

[Dome]

1 hour ago, whodatworm23 said:

I guess it goes back to the old question... Whats your apex? Is it the playoffs? 

 

Eventually the inevitable will take place... Do you postpone it for being a middling of the pack team, potentially a playoff berth, picking 18th-22nd in the draft every year. Or do you break the roster down to the point your in a rebuild and you pay all your cap debts and start fresh. Now that does not mean you toss all your young prime core players but maybe it means over the course of the next 2 years you say good bye to aging high priced players such as Jordan, Armstead and Davis while auctioning off Thomas to the highest bidder in order to aquire draft selections to get the team younger and cheaper.

 

Think about it... The Saints could ship off Armstead this year for likley around a 2nd and 4th round pick. Hes basically in a 1 year deal right now and trading him would save 6 million aganist the cap. Were about to have to pay Ramczyk left tackle money, Hurst who we could bring back on the cheap played well in 2020 and Ram can flip over to the left side which he played in college.

 

If you know your moving on from Cam Jordan in 2022 then you resign Hendrickson this offseason. Jordan showed his age this past season and will be 32 next year so 33 by 2022 where we can save 7.5 million by cutting or trading him then but once you start restructuring these deals you push all that hit down the road and then when they are old and far less productive your right back in a Drew Brees type sutuation losing younger more productive players because you mismanaged the cap.

 

It is forgivable when you have a hall of fame QB on the roster and your going for it... Its not acceptable to simply be a middling apex playoff team treading water.

Did Cam show his age, or did the first serious injury/surgery of his career slow him down? Probably a little of both I’d wager, but he was clearly still recovering from his offseason surgery, especially in the first half of the season.

I wouldn’t be surprised to watch Cam have a bounce back year next season.

[whodatworm23]

2 minutes ago, Dome said:

Did Cam show his age, or did the first serious injury/surgery of his career slow him down? Probably a little of both I’d wager, but he was clearly still recovering from his offseason surgery, especially in the first half of the season.

I wouldn’t be surprised to watch Cam have a bounce back year next season.

Im hoping just like you but even if thats the case it does not change the fact that hes a aging player with a high cap hit and growing injury history. The worry is if you continue to restructure a player like Jordans contract you eventually end up with a player like what Will Smith was toward the end but are unable to get out of the deal due to dead money.

 

Jordan will be on the roster in 2021 no doubt about it and im hoping for that come back as are you... But if you restructure that deal, you commit yourself to that player for at minumum through the 2022 season where he will be 33 years old and what if what we saw this year from Jordan is what he is now?

 

Whatever the Saints do... They CANNOT restructure Jordans deal in a way that locks them in to him beyond the next 2 seasons.

[Mid Iowa]

On 1/26/2021 at 2:53 PM, Dome said:

I’m not bothered by Thomas’ comments about the deep ball not being a threat when Brees was QB.

Did it need to be said? No. Was every player on the Saints besides Brees seeing the same issues Thomas was? Most likely. 

Might have stung Brees a bit, but some things he’s said might’ve stung with his teammates as well. I don’t actually think Brees was all that liked in the locker room.

I don’t see a reason to trade him yet. Behind our top-tier offensive line, with Thomas and Kamara as weapons, I think we can stay competitive with a “less than ideal” QB next season.

I agree, Thomas is a machine, and I'm sure he's quite frustrated with this season. I can't blame him for that, and he's always had a bit of a whiner's mouth. There's zero doubt Brees can't get the ball to... anyone deep, really. So Thomas wasn't lying, but should have kept a cap on it.

Also keep in mind, a lot of frustration started with him being really pissed at Brees's comments about the National Anthem. That was a division none of us will truly understand, and I'm sure was some fuel to Thomas's fire. I'm wondering if this friendship is broken, and purely a business relationship at this point.

Aside from being injured, Thomas's numbers were pretty consistent, and he's been consistent his entire career. His only drop in production was TD catches at zero. I'm not sure how you even do that, but he had none. That could be injury, lack of concentration etc... You gotta know where that goal line is.

On 1/26/2021 at 2:55 PM, Dome said:

Did Cam show his age, or did the first serious injury/surgery of his career slow him down? Probably a little of both I’d wager, but he was clearly still recovering from his offseason surgery, especially in the first half of the season.

I wouldn’t be surprised to watch Cam have a bounce back year next season.

Cam may be showing his age just a touch, but he's all but 1 game in his entire career, and that was his rookie season. So I think he's poised for a better year. He's had bad years in the past, and always follows it up with a great season.

Cam draws attention for other players to succeed, see Hendrickson. Cam still accounted for 1/4 for the teams total sacks (7.5 and 29, respectively). So, yes, he was down a bit this year, but in just 2 columns, sacks & QB hits. Everything else was consistent for him.

I can't help but to think part of Trey Hendrickson's success this season was due in part to Cam's constant disruption on the opposite side. We really need to retain Trey.

Our defensive stats compared to 2019 are actually better this season. I hope a new secondary coach will help. 
2020: Sacks 29 (22nd in the league) - INT's 18 (tied for league high)
2019: Sacks 25 (tied for 29th) - INT's 13 (tied for 12th)

[whodatworm23]

3 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

I agree, Thomas is a machine, and I'm sure he's quite frustrated with this season. I can't blame him for that, and he's always had a bit of a whiner's mouth. There's zero doubt Brees can't get the ball to... anyone deep, really. So Thomas wasn't lying, but should have kept a cap on it.

Also keep in mind, a lot of frustration started with him being really pissed at Brees's comments about the National Anthem. That was a division none of us will truly understand, and I'm sure was some fuel to Thomas's fire. I'm wondering if this friendship is broken, and purely a business relationship at this point.

Aside from being injured, Thomas's numbers were pretty consistent, and he's been consistent his entire career. His only drop in production was TD catches at zero. I'm not sure how you even do that, but he had none. That could be injury, lack of concentration etc... You gotta know where that goal line is.

Cam may be showing his age just a touch, but he's all but 1 game in his entire career, and that was his rookie season. So I think he's poised for a better year. He's had bad years in the past, and always follows it up with a great season.

Cam draws attention for other players to succeed, see Hendrickson. Cam still accounted for 1/4 for the teams total sacks (7.5 and 29, respectively). So, yes, he was down a bit this year, but in just 2 columns, sacks & QB hits. Everything else was consistent for him.

I can't help but to think part of Trey Hendrickson's success this season was due in part to Cam's constant disruption on the opposite side. We really need to retain Trey.

Our defensive stats compared to 2019 are actually better this season. I hope a new secondary coach will help. 
2020: Sacks 29 (22nd in the league) - INT's 18 (tied for league high)
2019: Sacks 25 (tied for 29th) - INT's 13 (tied for 12th)

With Cam... he had to be battling an injury and I wouldn't  just chalk up Hendrickson's success due to Cams presence  on the other side. Jordan got dominated  at times this year at times by rookies and backups. This was 1 on 1. He had his moments, remember the punch? That was out of frustration of getting his you know what handed to him by a backup. 

 

I pray it was an injury  because if its just decline, Cam going downhill fast.

[jcvoodoo]

On 1/26/2021 at 1:32 PM, MookieMonstah said:

I don't think thats a bad ranking. The Saints biggest weakness in the playoffs was Brees ironically.

As much as Brees did for New Orleans as a whole... I tend to agree with ya here Mookie.

Don't get me wrong, I love Brees (did ever since I met him at Purdue) as a player and motivator. He's a class act but for some odd reason he allowed the playoffs to be his nemesis.

[jcvoodoo]

Having now read all the posts, I'm gonna add this to the mix... my two pence as it were... lol

I think having Winston starting 2021 will benefit both he and MT. With Kamara and company to set up big plays and what not, then add Taysom to the mix and you have on badass offense. 

The key to the defense, IMO, is retaining Hendrickson. The new DB coach is an instant improvement... period.

Saints in 2021,  12-4 or better.

[whodatworm23]

4 hours ago, jcvoodoo said:

Having now read all the posts, I'm gonna add this to the mix... my two pence as it were... lol

I think having Winston starting 2021 will benefit both he and MT. With Kamara and company to set up big plays and what not, then add Taysom to the mix and you have on badass offense. 

The key to the defense, IMO, is retaining Hendrickson. The new DB coach is an instant improvement... period.

Saints in 2021,  12-4 or better.

12-4... thats a major prediction, it will depend solely on Winston becoming a franchise quarterback for us.

[Mid Iowa]

On 2/6/2021 at 9:33 AM, whodatworm23 said:

12-4... thats a major prediction, it will depend solely on Winston becoming a franchise quarterback for us.

Maybe we should just start backups. We're 8-1 so far, so I'd take 14-2

 

[Jlowe22]

On 2/6/2021 at 5:28 AM, jcvoodoo said:

Having now read all the posts, I'm gonna add this to the mix... my two pence as it were... lol

I think having Winston starting 2021 will benefit both he and MT. With Kamara and company to set up big plays and what not, then add Taysom to the mix and you have on badass offense. 

The key to the defense, IMO, is retaining Hendrickson. The new DB coach is an instant improvement... period.

Saints in 2021,  12-4 or better.

10-6.  Any worse, we may need to question our choice of QB.  Any better, pleasant surprise.

[whodatworm23]

On 2/9/2021 at 6:19 PM, Jlowe22 said:

10-6.  Any worse, we may need to question our choice of QB.  Any better, pleasant surprise.

I don't know man... we really need to see what happens to this roster this off-season. I mean Hill went 3-1 as a starter but most of us see it for what it is. If Jameis goes 9-7 or 8-8 but has a great individual season and limits the turnovers are we still looking for a quarterback?

[Raves]

1 hour ago, whodatworm23 said:

I don't know man... we really need to see what happens to this roster this off-season. I mean Hill went 3-1 as a starter but most of us see it for what it is. If Jameis goes 9-7 or 8-8 but has a great individual season and limits the turnovers are we still looking for a quarterback?

NOpe and I could see us regressing due to cap casualties.

[whodatworm23]

1 hour ago, Raves said:

NOpe and I could see us regressing due to cap casualties.

Raves... I have this sneaky suspicion that Mac Jones is the Saints guy.

 

Despite all the Winston talk, I'm starting to believe if Jones gets past 15 the Saints will make a move for him.

 

I think the Saints have been putting out a few smokescreens here lately. They know they gonna lose a lot on the roster, they know there taking a step back and they know they are in what is likely to be a 2 year down side until they get off alot of this dead money so why not get your future at quarterback and let him sit a year behind Winston and Hill year one and then move on to him when Winston's 1 year deal expires in 2022 and by 2023 he has a year under his belt in the NFL and now you have money to spend while your quarterback is still on his rookie deal for 3 more years and you already have a solid roster.

[tyler735]

Welcome aboard the Mac Jones train. I've also been thinking Payton has his smoke screens going here. As I mentioned on here a couple weeks ago in regards to Payton's recent interview where he gave Winston a "glowing review"...Only to then discuss the importance of being coy about drafting a QB in reference to the Pat Mahomes situation and missing on him. This coming just days after Mac Jones stating he had an excellent interview with the Saints.

Given the low cost of the rookie contract...Especially with our cap situation, I think it makes it all the more likely we are willing to part ways with some higher draft picks to trade up and grab him in the top 15 picks. Gives us more flexibility to retain our young core of players. Mac Jones style also has a lot of similarities to a Drew Brees type QB in how he plays the game, not saying he will be that good obviously, but I see a lot of similar qualities to his game. 

[Jlowe22]

4 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

I don't know man... we really need to see what happens to this roster this off-season. I mean Hill went 3-1 as a starter but most of us see it for what it is. If Jameis goes 9-7 or 8-8 but has a great individual season and limits the turnovers are we still looking for a quarterback?

I think the roster will still be good enough for a 10-6 type season.  We won’t lose THAT many people.

[whodatworm23]

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

Welcome aboard the Mac Jones train. I've also been thinking Payton has his smoke screens going here. As I mentioned on here a couple weeks ago in regards to Payton's recent interview where he gave Winston a "glowing review"...Only to then discuss the importance of being coy about drafting a QB in reference to the Pat Mahomes situation and missing on him. This coming just days after Mac Jones stating he had an excellent interview with the Saints.

Given the low cost of the rookie contract...Especially with our cap situation, I think it makes it all the more likely we are willing to part ways with some higher draft picks to trade up and grab him in the top 15 picks. Gives us more flexibility to retain our young core of players. Mac Jones style also has a lot of similarities to a Drew Brees type QB in how he plays the game, not saying he will be that good obviously, but I see a lot of similar qualities to his game. 

While I agree... the flip side to the coin is focus on extending your young core (Ramczyk, Lattimore and Marcus Williams) while plugging holes over the next year or two through the draft like Corner, Linebacker, D-Line and Receiver. While at the same time see how Winston plays and if that falters get very aggressive in 2022 or 2023 draft for a quarterback...