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Now that Pettine is gone, who should be the new DC?


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4 hours ago, Chili said:

Its very funny seeing the differing opinions between the coaches and fans.

Brandon Staley chose Joe Barry ahead of all the other defensive coaches on the Rams staff to take with him to the Chargers.

Sean McVay chose to hire Raheem Morris over his in-house candidates Aubrey Pleasant and Ejiiro Evero.

McVay was willing to let Pleasant make a sideways career move to Detriot.

Matt LaFleur chose to interview Barry and Evero with no consideration for Pleasant.

So clearly in three instances, McVay, LaFleur and Staley did not have a high opinion of Pleasant which contradicts the Rams fan views of him.

In the case of Barry, McVay thought well enough of him to be his assistant head coach. Staley liked him enough to bring him to the Chargers, LaFleur considered him a viable DC candidate by interviewing him. If you read fans opinions he should be god awful but the coaches actions suggest otherwise.

The opinion on Evero is mixed. McVay hired him as safeties coach despite toiling away for years at various stops as quality control or defensive assistant. He has been a stable fixture for the last 4 years. Obviously he hasn't done enough to impress McVay to promote him nor impress Staley to take him along with him to the Chargers. Only LaFleur is willing to consider him as a possible DC candidate.

Maybe.

Do you think it might be possible that conversations were taking place a couple of weeks ago?

MLF may have been planning to move on from Pettine before the playoffs. If his pick is Evero, maybe he discussed it with McVay already. Not a bad idea knowing a bunch of new coaches were going to have first pick of all the DCs. Maybe Evero has been turning down jobs and considers the Packer job the best of the bunch.

Evero is the first scenario that popped into my mind, but there are others that this would make sense as well.

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1 hour ago, VegasDan said:

Do you think it might be possible that conversations were taking place a couple of weeks ago?

Nah. The Packers are a classy organisation, they wouldn't speak to other candidates behind Pettine's back during the middle of a playoff run.

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6 minutes ago, Chili said:

Nah. The Packers are a classy organisation, they wouldn't speak to other candidates behind Pettine's back during the middle of a playoff run.

Seriously. That gets whispered to the wrong person in the other organization and they use one of the many routes to make it public and cause GB internal strife before/during the playoffs.....? 

Not saying it doesnt happen but the connection would have to be old, tried, tested and true to protect confidentiality.

High risk....unnecessary risk to be honest.....with minimal reward IMO.

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29 minutes ago, Leader said:

Seriously. That gets whispered to the wrong person in the other organization and they use one of the many routes to make it public and cause GB internal strife before/during the playoffs.....? 

Not saying it doesnt happen but the connection would have to be old, tried, tested and true to protect confidentiality.

High risk....unnecessary risk to be honest.....with minimal reward IMO.

LaFleur and McVay are good friends though. Can't rule out the possibility that LaFleur would have that kind of conversation with McVay that he wouldn't have with someone else. Not likely, but possible.  

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Todd Wash another name that we were potentially linked with has become the DL coach at the Lions. They are putting together a pretty impressive staff there. 

I'm wondering if the word is out within circles who we have our mind on as a DC, that is why Richards took the role at the Saints and not wait for an interview request from the Packers.

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47 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

Todd Wash another name that we were potentially linked with has become the DL coach at the Lions. They are putting together a pretty impressive staff there. 

I'm wondering if the word is out within circles who we have our mind on as a DC, that is why Richards took the role at the Saints and not wait for an interview request from the Packers.

Or he's a southern Cal guy who'd rather live in NO than GB.

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16 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Or he's a southern Cal guy who'd rather live in NO than GB.

How are they doing interviews? Virtually? Meeting in Tampa Bay? Travelling to candidate's location? Flying candidate into Green Bay? Green Bay's not going to have the most hospitable weather in the next week. 

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2 hours ago, Brat&Beer said:

LaFleur and McVay are good friends though. Can't rule out the possibility that LaFleur would have that kind of conversation with McVay that he wouldn't have with someone else. Not likely, but possible.  

The conversation I would imagine would not mention the DC position. Merely LaFleur asking McVay how Evero is doing and if McVay thought he was ready for more responsibility. I think that is all it would take to plant some seeds. 

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I've been studying coaching trees and defensive systems to see how it is influencing LaFleur's coaching search.

Ejiro Evero - Secondary, Well schooled in various 3-4 systems with Fangio, Capers, Phillips and Staley. Started off his career with Monte Kiffin which I believe to be 4-3 with Tampa 2 principles. That's a nice array of coaches he worked under. He took a very slow route to the top but what he has learned along the way should serve him well and gives him the edge over some DC candidates.

Joe Barry - Linebackers, Disastrously ran 4-3 Tampa-2 style defence with Detroit but since then helped run Phillips and Brandon Staley successful 3-4 at Ram. He has gone through humiliation with Detriot, has embraced and learnt a different defensive philosophy through the Rams and also appears to have made some lifestyle changes too with his weight loss. Of course all this is just speculation but he seem more motivated and mentally stonger as a result. McVay liked him enough to make him assistant head coach, Brandon Staley chose to bring him over to the Chargers and LaFleur also thought highly enough of him to grant him a DC interview. Maybe there's something there we fans don't know about.

Jerry Gray - Secondary. His background is in 4-3, Started out helping run Jeff Fisher/Greg Williams defence. He was only a position coach for 2 years before he became defensive coordinator with the Bills under HC Greg Williams. He followed Greg Williams again to Washington. He finally broke away from Greg Williams in 2010 by joining Seattle to work under Carroll and Bradley for just one year before becoming coordinator again with the Titans. Eventually he joined Mike Zimmer at Minnesota. So I believe his one year with us is the first time he has been exposed to the 3-4. I'm honestly not sure if he's the right man to run the entire defence with heavy 3-4 principles and concepts if LaFleur is looking for continuity.

Jim Leonhard - Secondary, fully schooled in Rex Ryan/Mike Pettine 3-4. Not much else to say.

Chris Kiffin - Defensive Line. Obviously he must know his father's 4-3 defence. He is working under Joe Woods who hails from the Lane Kiffin tree going all the way back to Tampa Bay and worked under various coaches from that same tree such as Mike Tomlin and Robert Saleh.

Ryan Nielsen - Defensive Line, His entire NFL coaching career has been spent learning under Dennis Allen. I believe they run the 4-3. When Allen took over as defensive coordinator the Saints defence lacked an identity and Allen studied both 3-4 and 4-3 before ultimately settling on the 4-3. The fact he was able to do so was because of his coaching background under Wade Phillips and Ed Donatell. Phillips was the 3-4 guy and Donatell early on in his career I think was a 4-3 guy. Allen was able to draw on his experiences to come up with a new defensive identity for the Saints. This leads to the possibility he might know some concepts of Phillips 3-4 through Allen

Matt Burke - Linebackers, Runs the 4-3 having learned under Schwartz who like Gray also worked for Jeff Fisher/Greg Williams..

Chris Harris - Secondary, He played and is coaching under Ron Rivera who is from the Jim Johnson system.
 

Conclusion:
Please correct me if i'm wrong, Buddy Ryan ran the 3-4 and he had Wade Phillips as his coordinator once upon a time and he also had his sons follow in his footsteps who later produced Pettine. Jeff Fisher worked under Buddy Ryan but he branched off and ran a 4-3 with Greg Williams. So out of the same Ryan tree one went 3-4 and the other went 4-3. Again I could be completely wrong.

Now look at our interview candidates. Matt LaFleur is looking at coaches from the Fisher branch (Gray and Burke) and coaches from the Phillips branch (Barry and Evero) and is also looking at the Ryan branch (Leonard). All three has their roots in Buddy Ryan. That's not a coincidence.

What's the significance of this I have no idea. Perhaps someone on here who is well versed in those defences can explain why LaFleur is looking at that particular tree.

Because of Saleh influence, LaFleur is also willing to look at the Kiffin tree which a completely different defence. Chris Kiffin and to some extent Evero and Barry are schooled in this defence. He also tried to bring in Kris Richard. The interest is there but the quality of the candidates doesn't make it a viable option for LaFleur at the moment. Maybe some 49ers or Seattle staff might get an interview later.

I've been banging on about Kansas coaches but Spagnuolo 4-3 defence has its roots in the Jim Johnson tree. Merritt is well versed in this and so is Brenden Daly who is also happens to be very familiar with Belichick's defence. It's not a branch LaFleur appears to be heavily looking into with only a curiosity interest in Chris Harris. If we don't interview the Kansas coaches than it makes interviewing Chris Harris all the more stranger. At the moment he's the odd one out of all the candidates.

It's more likely he will look at the Tampa coaches instead. Todd Bowles probably runs a similar defence to Zimmer based on the fact that he and Kacy Rodgers was on the same staff at Dallas in 2005 which may have also been influenced by Bill Parcells who was head coach at the time. However Zimmer was already the coordinator before Parcells took over as Head Coach so he was his own man at that point which makes me think Bowles defence leans more towards Zimmer than Parcells. The only reason I can think for us interviewing a Tampa coach is it allows us for the possibility of keeping Jerry Gray on the coaching staff who just so happens to be well schooled in Zimmer's defence. Kacy Rodgers is the one to keep an eye on and i'm sure he would be happy to keep Gray on his staff.

As for other DC candidate who might fit what LaFleur is looking for, Todd Wash is one option with Kiffin 4-3, I hoped Chris Hewitt would be interviewed but I learned he's from Pees 3-4 via Belichick not Ryan's 3-4. I don't think there's not many candidates left on my the list who knows Kiffin's or Ryan's defence. If he doesn't interview the Kansas and Tampa coaches or some of the 49ers/Seattle coaches then the coaching search is likely over. If that's the case then I'm going to put my money on either Evero or Leonard as our next defensive coordinator.

Edited by Chili
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Buddy Ryan definitely ran a 4-3 when he was the Bears DC and Eagles HC. Don't know if that changed when he went to Houston. 

 

Edit: He was always 4-3. 

Edited by Brat&Beer
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MLF alluded to it, but it's more about the sub packages than "base" anyway. Scheme should more about gaps, angle, blitz, and coverage combinations than formations. I want to see aggressive cb play, tough on the edges and speed in the middle of the field. 

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Too lazy to look through the thread, but has anyone come up with a good reason why Jim Leonhard gets so much love aside from the fact that he coaches for Wisconsin?

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13 hours ago, packfanfb said:

I think you'd have an easier time convincing a younger, first time DC to retain at least a few of the positional coaches. No different than what they did with MLF. 

Weren't you one of the ones critical of Murphy that LaFleur was "forced" to retain Pettine?

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7 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Too lazy to look through the thread, but has anyone come up with a good reason why Jim Leonhard gets so much love aside from the fact that he coaches for Wisconsin?

If you are saying there is Badger homerism going on... you are right. To an extent. Definitely a lot of Packer & Badger fans who love to see crossover between both teams (see every fourth mock draft). I'd know, I'm one of those "support WI teams" fans.

That being said, and taking off the Badger team socks, there are things about Leonard that show he is a valid candidate for an NFL DC position. He runs a pro style defense for a Power 5 conference team. His defenses have consistently been good (not just flashes). He does that with 3 star and below recruits. He has (briefly) been mentioned during other team DC searches (but made it clear he didn't desire to leave WI). And, in the case of GB, his hiring wouldn't mean a total overhaul of the current defensive roster as it comes from the same system as Pettine's.

I'm not saying he is the only candidate they should interview, or even the right one to hire. But I think he is in the same level as other candidates being interviewed and I'm glad to see GB interview coaches with varied backgrounds. I think sometimes there is a "reverse homerism" that happens - the thought that because a player/coach is local he isn't good enough for GB. Just like Badger fans need to take their red socks off, others need to look at Leonard based on his body of work with the hand dealt to him.

Edited by BluePacker
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