Now that Pettine is gone, who should be the new DC?

[DWhitehurst]

7 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

People forget Kevin King was rated somewhere 25-35 on big boards, a 6'3 CB with one of the best 3 cones in the entire draft, 32" arms, a 4.4 40 and a 40" vert. Far from a slouch. I was jacked with the pick.

I still think King can be an All-Pro with a scheme that plays to players strengths and not scheme specifics. Belicheck could replace Gilmore with him in a heartbeat I bet.

I didn't forget. King tested incredibly. But on film he played like a 4th rounder to me. Just slow to recognize/react. You may be right--he'd be better in Press man. (Now, his Univ of  Washington teammate at CB, Sidney Jones, was awesome on tape, but tragically blew out his achilles at his Pro Day and was never the same.) I never liked the pick of King, and not just because TT passed on Watt. But I'd be happy for him if I was proven wrong. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by DWhitehurst

[MantyWrestler]

No whispers or rumors on who the pick might be? We’ve heard some names but no hints yet. Anyone?

[coachbuns]

10 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

He's not an off coverage guy. He needs to play press man, or press and bail in a cover 2/3 look. 

Sometimes a prospect like him just doesn't adapt well to the pro game.  The "smarts" a player has oftentimes makes up for a lack of skills; the opposite doesn't happen as much ... ie King.  Press coverage for somebody his size?  Not being able to stay healthy?  It's hard for me to forget his worst game of his career was maybe his last for the Packers.  If he can be resigned for reasonable with a new DC to utilize him right as you suggest ... ok.   Still not thrilled with it but one never knows. 

[Chili]

Last night I attempted to make a family tree style diagram of all the coaching connections focusing only on the Packers interviewees otherwise it will get too complicated.

It started off easy enough but the more I added to it the more convoluted it got. Some coaches went from one defensive system to a completely different system further complicating it. I'm on the verge of giving up now but I did discover some things.

Pete Carroll and Monte Kiffin philosophies are very closely entwined. Their coaches have been hiring each other coaches for a very long time.

Because of Saleh LaFleur is heavily looking at the Monte Kiffin tree.

Matt LaFleur was on Dan Quinn's staff but I've noticed he is not interviewing anyone on the same staff such as Jerome Henderson and Marquand Manuel. Especially Henderson because he also worked under Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin and Rod Marinelli making him an legit candidate for an interview. Not sure why his name didn't come up.

Alan Williams (Colts) is another name who has close ties with the Kiffin tree but did not get an interview..

Ejiro Evero is in the thick of EVERYTHING. Joe Barry too. It's not a surprise to me at all seeing LaFleur interest in them.

Away from all that LaFleur seems to have a serious interest in the Buddy Ryan/Jeff Fisher/Gregg Williams branch with 3 interviewees with ties to it, Nielsen, Burke and Gray. I wonder why LaFleur likes that particular branch. He himself has no prior connection to coaches from this branch. Maybe its the influence of Jerry Gray getting into LaFleur's ear?

Looking at the Packers current defensive staff none of them are associated with the Kiffin tree. If LaFleur decides to make the switch he is going to have to replace the majority of his staff. This is why Jim Leonard is such an attractive option so he wouldn't have to. Maybe he could choose to gradually switch from 3-4 to 4-3 over the next couple of years which is where Evero or Barry could come in.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Chili

[Rainmaker90]

10 minutes ago, Chili said:

Last night I attempted to make a family tree style diagram of all the coaching connections focusing only on the Packers interviewees otherwise it will get too complicated.

It started off easy enough but the more I added to it the more convoluted it got. Some coaches went from one defensive system to a completely different system further complicating it. I'm on the verge of giving up now but I did discover some things.

Pete Carroll and Monte Kiffin philosophies are very closely entwined. Their coaches have been hiring each other coaches for a very long time.

Because of Saleh LaFleur is heavily looking at the Monte Kiffin tree.

Matt LaFleur was on Dan Quinn's staff but I've noticed he is not interviewing anyone on the same staff such as Jerome Henderson and Marquand Manuel. Especially Henderson because he also worked under Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin and Rod Marinelli making him an legit candidate for an interview. Not sure why his name didn't come up.

Alan Williams (Colts) is another name who has close ties with the Kiffin tree but did not get an interview.

Ejiro Evero is in the thick of EVERYTHING. Joe Barry too. It's not a surprise to me at all seeing LaFleur interest in them.

Away from all that LaFleur seems to have a serious interest in the Buddy Ryan/Jeff Fisher/Gregg Williams branch with 3 interviewees with ties to it, Nielsen, Burke and Gray. I wonder why LaFleur likes that particular branch. He himself has no prior connection to coaches from this branch. Maybe its the influence of Jerry Gray getting into LaFleur's ear?

Looking at the Packers current defensive staff none of them are associated with the Kiffin tree. If LaFleur decides to make the switch he is going to have to replace the majority of his staff. This is why Jim Leonard is such an attractive option so he wouldn't have to. Maybe he could choose to gradually switch from 3-4 to 4-3 over the next couple of years which is where Evero or Barry could come in.

Great post. Really connected a lot of dots.

 

How heavy do you think MLF is going to weigh coaches who run the 3-4 compared to 4-3? I seem to vaguely remember him not focusing too much on them as teams play a lot more nickel anyways, but I could be wrong. 

[squire12]

14 minutes ago, Chili said:

Last night I attempted to make a family tree style diagram of all the coaching connections focusing only on the Packers interviewees otherwise it will get too complicated.

It started off easy enough but the more I added to it the more convoluted it got. Some coaches went from one defensive system to a completely different system further complicating it. I'm on the verge of giving up now but I did discover some things.

Pete Carroll and Monte Kiffin philosophies are very closely entwined. Their coaches have been hiring each other coaches for a very long time.

Because of Saleh LaFleur is heavily looking at the Monte Kiffin tree.

Matt LaFleur was on Dan Quinn's staff but I've noticed he is not interviewing anyone on the same staff such as Jerome Henderson and Marquand Manuel. Especially Henderson because he also worked under Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin and Rod Marinelli making him an legit candidate for an interview. Not sure why his name didn't come up.

Alan Williams (Colts) is another name who has close ties with the Kiffin tree but did not get an interview..

Ejiro Evero is in the thick of EVERYTHING. Joe Barry too. It's not a surprise to me at all seeing LaFleur interest in them.

Away from all that LaFleur seems to have a serious interest in the Buddy Ryan/Jeff Fisher/Gregg Williams branch with 3 interviewees with ties to it, Nielsen, Burke and Gray. I wonder why LaFleur likes that particular branch. He himself has no prior connection to coaches from this branch. Maybe its the influence of Jerry Gray getting into LaFleur's ear?

Looking at the Packers current defensive staff none of them are associated with the Kiffin tree. If LaFleur decides to make the switch he is going to have to replace the majority of his staff. This is why Jim Leonard is such an attractive option so he wouldn't have to. Maybe he could choose to gradually switch from 3-4 to 4-3 over the next couple of years which is where Evero or Barry could come in.

I think who the prospective DC has worked with and thus have been influenced by in a conceptual manner is important.  At some point, the interview process is about what have you gained/learned and adopted from those coaches you have worked with and what is now your overall Defensive philosophy.

I would hope that a DC has "taken the good and discarded the bad" from their stops along the way. (the merits of the good/bad can be debated for sure)

 How does that mesh in today's NFL? 

How does he see the talent on the team be best utilized?  

[AlexGreen#20]

Got to think LaFleur might be looking to move away from the Pettine style.

It would be weird to watch the wheels fall off your Toyota Corolla in back to back years and then decide what you really want is the Camry because you're familiar with the interior controls. 

[Brit Pack]

26 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Got to think LaFleur might be looking to move away from the Pettine style.

It would be weird to watch the wheels fall off your Toyota Corolla in back to back years and then decide what you really want is the Camry because you're familiar with the interior controls. 

Is it that the correct analogy or is it more like, my Corolla got me pretty much almost everywhere I needed to (just about) and to get to where I really want to go though I need to pimp up my Corolla and get some more juice rather than junking it.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Brit Pack

[Packerraymond]

48 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Got to think LaFleur might be looking to move away from the Pettine style.

It would be weird to watch the wheels fall off your Toyota Corolla in back to back years and then decide what you really want is the Camry because you're familiar with the interior controls. 

I hope so, he should want the Ryan style, which is both the reason Pettine was hired and now fired. He went away from his roots.

[Chili]

4 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Got to think LaFleur might be looking to move away from the Pettine style.

I agree. The signs are strongly pointing that way.

He has only 1 interviewee for Pettine system (3-4) Leonard.

4 interviewees for the M.Kiffin system (4-3) Barry, Evero, Harris, C.Kiffin

3 interviewees for the Fisher system (4-3) Nielsen, Burke and Gray.

However between Kiffin and Fisher there is an overlap with the Phillips system (3-4) Barry, Evero, Nielsen

So what it boils down to is the inescapable fact that 7 of the 8 interviewees have strong ties to the 4-3.

That will mean a brand new coaching staff, filled with LaFleur's guys and not Pettine's.

I have to ask, why did LaFleur hire Jerry Gray in the first place? he had no knowledge of Pettine's system. He planted his own guy within Pettine's staff. This has to be a massive clue which hints to LaFleur long term plans. He was planting the seed.

I also have to ask why, after the 49ers game did he not fire Pettine? If LaFleur always intended to make the change why didn't he do it then? Why not just hire Gray as coordinator right away?

Was there someone else he wanted who was not available? I don't think so. Every interviewee this year was available last year. People like Ulbrich, Morris, Ryans, Woods were all also available. With the delay of firing Pettine his choice of potential candidates actually shrunk.

The hiring of Gray might suggest he is looking very strongly at coaches from the Fisher system which might suggest Nielsen and Burke are the leading favourites for the DC gig.

[Arthur Penske]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

I hope so, he should want the Ryan style, which is both the reason Pettine was hired and now fired. He went away from his roots.

Would this be a Lexus?

[Leader]

1 hour ago, Chili said:

I also have to ask why, after the 49ers game did he not fire Pettine?

Everybody was raving about lack of IDL help - got it. Agree. Some stud IDL player to take snaps from either Lowry or Lancaster would have been nice.

However, the IDL play isnt the reason we're not in the SB.

Everybody was raving about drafting a WR #1 - I was one of them. I'd bought in.

But the lack of that player isnt the reason we're not in the SB. 

We went 13-3, snagged #1 NFC seed, had the #1 offense and (again) got to the NFCCG.

Situationally - we made poor plays on defense and failed to execute on offense. It doesnt take much to lose by 5pts. The margins were tight.

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Leader

[Mr. Fussnputz]

Seems to me the target is someone on TB or KC. If MLF wanted to hire anyone of these other guys, why hasn't he. I think he's treading water until after the Super Bowl. My waaaay out on the limb prediction is Larry Foote. If you can't beat 'em, hire 'em.

[Arthur Penske]

1 minute ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Seems to me the target is someone on TB or KC. If MLF wanted to hire anyone of these other guys, why hasn't he. I think he's treading water until after the Super Bowl. My waaaay out on the limb prediction is Larry Foote. If you can't beat 'em, hire 'em.

I was just thinking about this. People seem to have concluded he won't interview anyone on those staffs, but the SB is only two days away. Couldn't he wait?

[CWood21]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Seems to me the target is someone on TB or KC. If MLF wanted to hire anyone of these other guys, why hasn't he. I think he's treading water until after the Super Bowl. My waaaay out on the limb prediction is Larry Foote. If you can't beat 'em, hire 'em.

Because you have to go through your vetting process.  You've got your initial round of interviews with roughly a dozen candidates, and then you've got the second interview.  The hiring process is roughly a week and a half I'd argue from when you move on from your current DC to hiring your new DC.