PACKRULE Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: yes. and a 3rd/4th round pick. Preston smith isn't bringing value to his contract. He did have a drop in production and was somewhat eclipsed by Gary. But at the same time he's asked to drop way to often in our scheme, watched him drop in the 3rd yesterday. Now if we were a true zone blitz team it would work but we often drop Preston. Last year I don't believe he dropped as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, PACKRULE said: Totally agree Cwood that would be my take as well. I just don't think we kick the can too far down the road. Plus GB does pride itself on allowing guys to make their contracts right or wrong I think it's a strong selling feature or has been in the past. TT did not cut allot of guys due to cap, Gute may be that guy but I still think it seems like something we do is stay true to contracts. It's something you can offer FA's when we are trying to bring them in. That's also partially because the Packers have historically not given out 3rd contracts. I believe the list aside from Rodgers includes Jordy Nelson (released), AJ Hawk (released), and Charles Woodson (released). I'm sure there's more, but those ones immediately come to mind. The Packers usually don't hand out 3rd contracts to their own players they've drafted, and they're even less likely to see the end of their 3rd contract. Rodgers is the only one I believe has finished out their 3rd contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, PACKRULE said: He did have a drop in production and was somewhat eclipsed by Gary. But at the same time he's asked to drop way to often in our scheme, watched him drop in the 3rd yesterday. Now if we were a true zone blitz team it would work but we often drop Preston. Last year I don't believe he dropped as much. And I think that's the discussion that is going to be had with Preston. For $16M, is he worth that for the lack of production he had? Probably not. But he's also smart enough to know that EDGE will always get paid. He's a year removed from a 12 sack season. Someone will pay him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnypackerfan Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) I think if the NFL approves the 17th game starting next year, the current contract has an automatic escalator in it to increase the annual payout. My guess is add 1/17th to the contract so if $175 million is the base you can add another $10.5 million to the annual revenues to make it $185.5 million. Of course the owners and players share approximately 50-50 in additional revenues so that would take the cap to $180 million. Then their are the additional revenues caused by the addition of 6 first round playoff games versus 4, so that might add several million to the cap too. So at worst, I estimate the cap to be $180 and at best $185 million per team. Edited January 25, 2021 by minnypackerfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 27 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I honestly don't understand what makes you think Garvin or Ramsey are capable of producing. They played a combined 160 snaps this year and had a combined 0 TFL, 0 QB hits, and 0 sacks. Garvin was a late round flier on an athletic EDGE. Still don't know what Ramsey is, but he's probably nothing more than camp fodder. I honestly don't understand how you keep posting the same formulaic responses to any suggested roster move. "Are you willing to count on rookies in the CLUTCH?" "you better be willing to invest a 1st or 2nd at this position if you're moving on from this guy" "Are you aware that he played x snaps last year? how are you replacing that?" Preston smith played a lot of average to whatever snaps. Gary played better snaps. You can replace preston smith's snaps with the money you save by cutting him, and have money left over. I'll never understand how after 15 years you can't see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: I honestly don't understand how you keep posting the same formulaic responses to any suggested roster move. "Are you willing to count on rookies in the CLUTCH?" "you better be willing to invest a 1st or 2nd at this position if you're moving on from this guy" "Are you aware that he played x snaps last year? how are you replacing that?" Preston smith played a lot of average to whatever snaps. Gary played better snaps. You can replace preston smith's snaps with the money you save by cutting him, and have money left over. I'll never understand how after 15 years you can't see that. It's literally a numbers' game. Unless you want Gary and Za'Darius Smith playing 80%+ of the defensive snaps, you're going to have to rely on EDGE3. Right now, if you release Preston Smith who is EDGE3? Based on the current roster, I'd say it's probably Randy Ramsey but I don't feel very confident with that prediction. But there's the draft, but as I've mentioned before rookie pass rushers outside of the top of the draft usually don't produce much. You're banking on a Year 2 or Year 3 jump. Let's look at the Day 2 EDGE and look at what they produced this past season. Yetur Gross-Moss (38th overall): 2 TFL, 2.5 sacks, 9 QB hits Darrell Taylor (48th overall): DNP AJ Epenesa (54th overall): 3 TFL, 1 sack, 4 QB hits Josh Uche (60th overall): 2 TFL, 1 sack, 7 QB hits Julian Okwara (67th overall): 1 TFL, 0 sacks, 0 QB hits Jabari Zuninga (79th overall): 0 TFL, 0 sacks, 0 QB hits Jonathan Greenard (90th overall): 2 TFL, 1 sacks, 3 QB hits That's a LOT of crappy production. Just for comparison's sake, Rashan Gary finished with 5 TFL, 5 sacks, and 11 QB hits as our #3 pass rusher. There were 2 pass rush prospects who came "close" to Gary's production in terms of QB hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 16 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: Preston smith played a lot of average to whatever snaps. Gary played better snaps. You can replace preston smith's snaps with the money you save by cutting him, and have money left over. I'll never understand how after 15 years you can't see that. Have you looked at what pass rushers get in FA? Jamie Collins was given $10M/year and he posted 1 sack this season. Shaq Lawson was given $10M/year, he posted 4 sacks. Robert Quinn was given $14M/year and he got 2 sacks. This notion that there are bargain EDGE rushers who are "starting-caliber" is a myth. Pass rushers get overpaid in FA because they legitimately good ones are locked up before they hit FA. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 3 hours ago, CWood21 said: Put the pipe down. Nobody is giving up a Day 2 pick for an EDGE who is a potential cap casualty. 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: And I think that's the discussion that is going to be had with Preston. For $16M, is he worth that for the lack of production he had? Probably not. But he's also smart enough to know that EDGE will always get paid. He's a year removed from a 12 sack season. Someone will pay him. So you seem to be thinking someone would rather pay Preston Smith a big contract in FA if GB cuts him but wouldn't trade for him on a cheaper contract in that scenario. Makes sense if the is the narrative you want to force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 hours ago, skibrett15 said: yes. and a 3rd/4th round pick. Preston smith isn't bringing value to his contract. I tend to agree with this considering where we are on cap and wanting to give Gary more snaps. I could see a team trading like a 5th-6th for Preston for 2021. Since we'd be eating his signing bonus, an edge rusher with potential for 8M is a gamble a team would take considering what some guys make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 10 minutes ago, pacman5252 said: edge rusher with potential for 8M More like 12M+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: who are "starting-caliber" is a myth. we're looking to replace an overpaid starter with a backup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 15 minutes ago, TransientTexan said: More like 12M+ If he was traded, GB would still be on the hook for the signing bonus. For 2021, Preston would cost someone 8M in salary, roster bonus, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, pacman5252 said: If he was traded, GB would still be on the hook for the signing bonus. For 2021, Preston would cost someone 8M in salary, roster bonus, etc The 12M does not include the signing bonus. 2021: 6.85m base + 4.5m roster bonus + 0.65m workout bonus 2022: 11.35m base + 0.5m roster bonus + 0.65m workout bonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAH1223 Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 12 talks about cap at end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 21 hours ago, squire12 said: So you seem to be thinking someone would rather pay Preston Smith a big contract in FA if GB cuts him but wouldn't trade for him on a cheaper contract in that scenario. Makes sense if the is the narrative you want to force. I don't think he's going to get a big contract. But he's gonna get a good one. Pass rushers are always overpaid in FA. Carl Nassib got a $8.4M/year deal coming off a 6 sack season. Emmanuel Ogbah got $7.5M/year coming off a 5.5 sack season. Stephen Weatherly got $6.3M/year coming off a 3 sack season. Need I go on? Pass rushers get paid. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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